UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #4

[MajorLang]

And is this the reason the driver never came forward ?

But you would either, just leave the person in the road because if you stop you prolong the chance of being spotted.
Take them to hospital but if they died on way might do as in above.
At worst you take the body and dump it and not that securely, DNA less incriminating)

the body had been disposed of in a way we are unlikely ever to find, why? Because it will be full of evidence that could tie back to Perp(s).

 

[Mrs Marple]

Colleague of missing York chef Claudia Lawrence comes forward with fresh lead
Interesting that Police states they knew who the casual boyfriend was. So it must still stand if that is the case

'Det Supt Galloway said Claudia’s casual boyfriend, who she had been seeing for several months, had another long-term partner and had not been definitively eliminated from the inquiry.'

This bit of info passed me by.

 

[MajorLang]

'Det Supt Galloway said Claudia’s casual boyfriend, who she had been seeing for several months, had another long-term partner and had not been definitively eliminated from the inquiry.'

This bit of info passed me by.

Does anyone believe the colleagues story though-Bringingthis evidence forward a year later.

Could be to take heat off themselves?

The safety in this story and for anyone revealing it is that after a year, Claudia can't speak for herself on this matter.

 

[MajorLang]

Does anyone have a theory as to why one of the POIs SR the brother of PR is involved. He was not known to have been a drinking buddy of those at the Nags.
Equally, does anyone have a theory about DR, again a POI, who whilst drank at the Nags, frequented the sports bar area, a different part of the pub? They were not reported to being "friends" of Claudia.

 

[MajorLang]

Honestly don't know. The police think she left for work that morning. Then there's the sighting of a rucksack similar to hers on grass on her route to work that has never been discounted. Is it possible it was Haliwell? I don't think this can be discounted. Dark man the night before might be completely innocent. He might have died given the length of time it took them to release the CCTV.

Yes the police are going down a particular route but they do get it wrong sometimes. Probably more frequently than we know.

So the backpack is sighted by someone, they again are anonymous along with the sighting of the couple arguing by the car and at Melrosegate bridge.
Imagine the scenario:

Caller "I saw a backpack in the Uni grounds that matched the description of Claudias@
Police @Thank you and your name is?"

Caller "Id rather not say"

Following on, The backpack is found by someone-Chefs whites, possibly hair straighteners, some make up items-Not exactly an Aladdin's cave worth taking.

Sometimes I do feel the perpetrators assume that everyone else has a zip fastener on the back of their heads and will believe this stuff.

Regarding Halliwell, nice and neat closure of case for the police. Tied up and put to bed but they decided for whatever reason not to.
Equally, non of Claudias clothes were found at Halliwells fishing spot along with many others.

 

[MajorLang]

The sticking point with stranger abduction and the reason the police think it has a local connection is the mobile phone signal.

It's possible that the phone fell out into a car if it was a stranger but the car didn't go far.

Or is the bag sighting credible. If the phone was in Claudia's bag and someone local picked the bag up after seeing it. It seems really odd to me that the phone was switched off two hours after her manager called and left a message. If you were a nefarious person in that position would you switch it off sooner? The only thing that stands out for me is that an older person might not know or understand about phone pings.

Another thing l theorise is was she blackmailing anyone. I read in this thread speculation about her father buying her the house but l read on MSM yesterday that the bank has suspended the mortgage indefinitely. So there was a mortgage apparently and in her role as a chef l suspect this was canteen not gourmet so she wasn't exactly high earning. And yet she went off on holidays, at one point she had a horse, she ran a car, she presumably spent a lot of money on cabs from nights out and buying alcohol. Granted no doubt some of this was paid for by others. But l can't help but wonder, as that certainly is a motive for murder.

Did the Perp keep the phone for incriminating evidence?
Were they keeping it to see how long it would be before she was "missed". They may have secreted it somewhere, in their car, gone about their Bussuness and returned to the car during their Lunch break (12:10) and identified that contact had been attempted, turned it off, realised "safe" period was over so either got back to work or finalised any disposal if not already dealt with.

 

[MajorLang]

I agree with your view of the fickle nature of some of her so-called associates in the NH. I really can't eliminate the alley man though. His little jaunts down to the back of Heworth Place, the brief nature of them, the timing of both sightings, the shifty behaviour just all seems too coincidental. He may well have done this regularly if indeed he was her boyfriend AND a NH regular who was part of the drinking circle AND a married 'family' man who didn't want to risk being sighted entering no 46 by the front entrance. Regarding her bag, I suppose the only niggle is whether alley man was carrying it over his shoulder in that cctv?

The sightings of the Dark Person were at the two times of day that Claudia was most likely to be home-Evening and getting up time.

Her absence from the Nags could be the avoidance of someone that she made a drunken move towards and regretted and he being Keener wanted to know where she was.

That goes some way to explaining their activity and potential arrest if Police identifies them?

It doesn't explain why the other 3 would be of interest though and so Dark person was more likely to be part of a group of conspirators, along with Light Person, also seem in both CCTVs-Too much of a coincidence.

 

[Mrs Marple]

Does anyone believe the colleagues story though-Bringingthis evidence forward a year later.

Could be to take heat off themselves?

The safety in this story and for anyone revealing it is that after a year, Claudia can't speak for herself on this matter.

The bit of info l'm focussing on is that the boyfriend and the person Claudia was allegedly out with are not the same person. Claudia was seeing someone at the time she disappeared who is known to the police.

So the backpack is sighted by someone, they again are anonymous along with the sighting of the couple arguing by the car and at Melrosegate bridge.
Imagine the scenario:

Caller "I saw a backpack in the Uni grounds that matched the description of Claudias@
Police @Thank you and your name is?"

Caller "Id rather not say"

Following on, The backpack is found by someone-Chefs whites, possibly hair straighteners, some make up items-Not exactly an Aladdin's cave worth taking

Do we know that the bag was reported anonymously then?

I think that if someone picks something up in the street that doesn't belong to them, they do it as casually as possible. They wouldn't rifle through it then and there, they would retreat to a safe place to do it.

But yes it's possible the bag sighting was planted deliberately. If so it was to make us believe she was abducted on her way to work. So that means we are left thinking something happened before she left for work or the night before. So where does that leave the escort braking evidence? Possibly irrelevant?

Does anyone have a theory as to why one of the POIs SR the brother of PR is involved. He was not known to have been a drinking buddy of those at the Nags.
Equally, does anyone have a theory about DR, again a POI, who whilst drank at the Nags, frequented the sports bar area, a different part of the pub? They were not reported to being "friends" of Claudia.

Brotherly love man. Helping his brother out of a tight spot. If Claudia was involved with shady people, this is the sort of thing they do for each other. Of course we could be wrong. Maybe Claudia was seeing SR and not PR and the helping was the other way around.

 

[MajorLang]

The bit of info l'm focussing on is that the boyfriend and the person Claudia was allegedly out with are not the same person. Claudia was seeing someone at the time she disappeared who is known to the police.



Do we know that the bag was reported anonymously then?

I think that if someone picks something up in the street that doesn't belong to them, they do it as casually as possible. They wouldn't rifle through it then and there, they would retreat to a safe place to do it.

But yes it's possible the bag sighting was planted deliberately. If so it was to make us believe she was abducted on her way to work. So that means we are left thinking something happened before she left for work or the night before. So where does that leave the escort braking evidence? Possibly irrelevant?



Brotherly love man. Helping his brother out of a tight spot. If Claudia was involved with shady people, this is the sort of thing they do for each other. Of course we could be wrong. Maybe Claudia was seeing SR and not PR and the helping was the other way around.

The bag was reported anonymously as seen in a grassy area that was a cut through in Uni grounds. Police urged the person reporting it to come forward. they only reported it as seen in the distance and not approached.

Yes, it's quite possible that it was SR rather then PR. were they both Seeing her and did PRs partner find out. Was this the issue that CL was helping JK with that week?

 

[Popejohn3]

And police know who he is and wanted to charge him but there wasn't enough corroborating evidence e.g. social media, cctv, phone, witness statements - and the biggest problem: no body.

His DNA may well be in her house but if he has owned up to having an affair with her, this would not be definitive proof either.

It's very unfortunate that the properties in Lime Court are student accommodation and the ones in HP are rentals too so the population in those properties was mostly transient.

I share Malyn's frustration.

The police still say the dark man is still key.
You say they know who he is.Does not make much sense to me.Did he identify himself and gave a reasonable explanation as to what he was doing there ?

 

[Eve71]

I suppose police have to keep options open and any sightings are not closed down in case of someone coming forward.
It's a shame police can't say more due to preservation of future prosecution evidence.

The SIO was clearly frustrated when CPS would not allow case to proceed to prosecution.

Unfortunately today, any case with less than a 90% chance of success can be rejected by CPS due to government targets.

had this case proceeded we would have heard all evidence they had.

DCI Malyn seems convinced after an independent review of the case that he has the culprits, why do we not agree.
Why would Police close down a theory if they could gain a prosecution?

It is very clear from what he has said that whilst suspects stick to their story or remain silent that the only way this case will proceed to prosecution is if the solidarity shown by the 4 breaks, perhaps a relationship or if additional evidence comes forward.
If you remember Halliwell maintained no comment but the evidence outweighed his silence and a guilty verdict was obtained.

The police do seem convinced they have the perps. It could be the case that they know one of them did it but can’t pin it on which one. Not all of the four may have actually been involved or know what happened, maybe one or two? If they were all in it together, then there is no doubt the two women friends knew too, IMO.

 

[Mrs Marple]

Claudia Lawrence’s friends in BBC show appeal

Not sure l remember seeing this article before.

'But her best friend, Suzy Cooper, is determined not to give up hope of finding the 35-year-old alive.

Together with three other friends, Jen King, Pete Ruane and George Forman – landlord of the Nags Head pub – she has recorded an interview to be screened on BBC 1’s Missing Live programme on Friday, at 9.15am.'

So GF is a 'friend's then.

'“The four of us get together most nights to go over and over everything we know, but we just can’t come up with anything,” she said.

“I can’t think of anybody who would want to harm her or make her life difficult.'


I think NYP know who dark man is, and everyone local knows who dark man is, and he is 'apparently ' married with children. So possibly the casual acquaintance Claudia was meeting up with in Acomb in the weeks leading up to her disappearance. But proving it is a different matter.

 

[Mrs Marple]

The police do seem convinced they have the perps. It could be the case that they know one of them did it but can’t pin it on which one. Not all of the four may have actually been involved or know what happened, maybe one or two? If they were all in it together, then there is no doubt the two women friends knew too, IMO.

BBM

I was going to mention this. If they have been complicit in a crime, why have neither of them ever been named as suspects or been questioned? The more l think about this case, the less it makes sense.

 

[Kiranerys]

The bit of info l'm focussing on is that the boyfriend and the person Claudia was allegedly out with are not the same person. Claudia was seeing someone at the time she disappeared who is known to the police.





Do we know that the bag was reported anonymously then?


I think that if someone picks something up in the street that doesn't belong to them, they do it as casually as possible. They wouldn't rifle through it then and there, they would retreat to a safe place to do it.

But yes it's possible the bag sighting was planted deliberately. If so it was to make us believe she was abducted on her way to work. So that means we are left thinking something happened before she left for work or the night before. So where does that leave the escort braking evidence? Possibly irrelevant?



Brotherly love man. Helping his brother out of a tight spot. If Claudia was involved with shady people, this is the sort of thing they do for each other. Of course we could be wrong. Maybe Claudia was seeing SR and not PR and the helping was the other way around.

I read that PR was seeing a barmaid from the nags head who was also part of the drinking group?,that same barmaid later became his long term partner and works for his business?, maybe the breaking car was the someone coming to help?,whatever happened to Claudia happened in the house(possibly someone knew her morning routine well enough to stage the scene) and the killer called someone for help?.
Could anyone have gone moved a body into the Alley and retrieved it by way of the pub car park?, I read that although slightly overgrown there was access,could the man going down the Alley be checking to make sure they hadn't left any evidence?

 

[MajorLang]

Went for a long walk today with my 14 week old Cocker Spaniel / Poodle cross

half way through the walk she went wild and was snapping at my ankles and barking. She dragged me to a spot hidden-A dead sheep.

I'm sure she could find Humans also

#powerofsearchpups

Off to kick boxing classes with her tonight

 

[MajorLang]

I read that PR was seeing a barmaid from the nags head who was also part of the drinking group?,that same barmaid later became his long term partner and works for his business?, maybe the breaking car was the someone coming to help?,whatever happened to Claudia happened in the house(possibly someone knew her morning routine well enough to stage the scene) and the killer called someone for help?.
Could anyone have gone moved a body into the Alley and retrieved it by way of the pub car park?, I read that although slightly overgrown there was access,could the man going down the Alley be checking to make sure they hadn't left any evidence?

Yes it is common knowledge that PR and JK are an item and still are. She was a barmaid at Nags

The man was more likely to be checking at those times that she was in or out as nightime we knew she was still alive.

Could have been reconciling the route or meeting someone briefly at rear of her house though?

I like your thinking

 

[x_caz_x]

Does anyone believe the colleagues story though-Bringingthis evidence forward a year later.

Could be to take heat off themselves?

The safety in this story and for anyone revealing it is that after a year, Claudia can't speak for herself on this matter.

It's a shame that we aren't privy to why it took a year for them to come forward. What happened or was said or what was seen to remind them of this conversation? Would loved to have been sitting in the room whilst this was being discussed.
Perhaps they were "forced" to go to the police?

 

[MajorLang]

The police do seem convinced they have the perps. It could be the case that they know one of them did it but can’t pin it on which one. Not all of the four may have actually been involved or know what happened, maybe one or two? If they were all in it together, then there is no doubt the two women friends knew too, IMO.

Yes if I was LE and they all stayed silent then I would assume all were culpable. But as you say it may not be all of them.
I would want to clear my name if I was one of them though.

 

[MajorLang]

It's a shame that we aren't privy to why it took a year for them to come forward. What happened or was said or what was seen to remind them of this conversation? Would loved to have been sitting in the room whilst this was being discussed.
Perhaps they were "forced" to go to the police?

I suspect they made the revalation to take the heat off of themselves and knowing that Claudia could not contest an allegation a year after she was gone.

 

[x_caz_x]

Does anyone have a theory as to why one of the POIs SR the brother of PR is involved. He was not known to have been a drinking buddy of those at the Nags.
Equally, does anyone have a theory about DR, again a POI, who whilst drank at the Nags, frequented the sports bar area, a different part of the pub? They were not reported to being "friends" of Claudia.

I feel it may simply be the 'family' connection amongst them. Perhaps DR did only drink in the sports bar, but that's not to say that CL may have on occassions drank in their too?