UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #2

[OrlandoJames]

I do agree that this is a possible scenario but imo if Corrie was offered a lift "now" as opposed to at 3.30am which involves over 2 hours hanging about in the street without a coat or shelter he's accept the lift "now" and message the other person to say he no longer needed a lift. The only reason to wait imo would be if the 3.30 left was from a girl he really wanted to hang around for and, if this is the case, why hasn't she come forward?

JMO

I think this is really important. If Corrie's sole intention was to get back to base he would definitely have accepted the offer of a lift in the pizza place. Nobody chooses to wait around for a lift in two hours' time if they've got the offer of one now. Which means the reason he was hanging around in the doorway for two hours was because there was the prospect of something other than a lift that kept him there. He must have arranged to meet somebody for something - and it wasn't a lift home. Possibly a hook-up, possibly because he'd been invited to a party somewhere later.

 

[suzyjackson]

Inside information? With 20 years in the Armed forces, I have never heard of this. Unless your at a military function on camp and they are taking you home after. And even then the last pickups are around 2:30. Normally carried out by junior ranks.


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Are you in the wrong service, later lifts available in the others:laughing:

 

[suzyjackson]

I think this is really important. If Corrie's sole intention was to get back to base he would definitely have accepted the offer of a lift in the pizza place. Nobody chooses to wait around for a lift in two hours' time if they've got the offer of one now. Which means the reason he was hanging around in the doorway for two hours was because there was the prospect of something other than a lift that kept him there. He must have arranged to meet somebody for something - and it wasn't a lift home. Possibly a hook-up, possibly because he'd been invited to a party somewhere later.

Or, there never was an offer of an earlier lift and for some reason the American isn't being truthful about it ...

 

[MidsummersDay]

To work through a possible abduction scenario, I thought about this the other night.

What I envisage is grabbing someone, bundling them into the back of a van. As soon as the van doors are almost closed, the driver starts driving. Inside the back of the van, the abductee is slapped around to subdue him, then his hands and feet are tied, then check pockets for phone and wallet (for ID), then dump the phone. So the phone gets dumped maybe ten minutes traveling time post-ambush. I would just hand the phone to the driver, or someone in the passenger seat and have them throw the phone out the window into bushes at the side of the road, and then I'd keep driving.

Does this sound reasonable? How does it fit with what we do know?

I ALWAYS try to offer up a positive to any suggestion. That's how constructive critiques work in my mind. Your theory is plausible apart from:
1. A quick 'grab' would probably mean a quick escape. Having tracked the updates on the phone and establishing that it travelled towards BM mast area at a slower speed (I worked out approximately 11-20mph within the signal areas) than a normal vehicle. That kicks your grab theory into the long grass.
2. Why throw away evidence? If you're driving a van it's reasonable to assume that the driver has special awareness to be able to negotiate the narrow streets and so would presumably understand that to throw a phone out of the window would be foolish.
3. The signal was tracked towards the BM mast area. That's pretty late on in the ambush scenario to lob it out of the window then. That suggests a really in proffessional job.

What does work for me is a serious mugging in Shortbrackland followed by this possible sequence;
a. The muggers making off with the wallet and phone (explains the arguing teenagers) then,
b. The muggers (teenagers?)realising that the phone is of no financial importance from a resale point of view because it's old and it's also locked then
c. Throwing the phone into a passing bin lorry (explains the signal track) then,
d. On realising that there is military ID in the wallet and the potential consequence of their actions, taking the cash and secreting the wallet somewhere (local bin, under soli, gutter, roof, toilet cistern etc...),
e. Bundling Corrie into (there's three teenagers remember) a yet unknown location).

 

[OrlandoJames]

Or, there never was an offer of an earlier lift and for some reason the American isn't being truthful about it ...

Yes, if the American lied about offering Corrie a lift then the possibility of him waiting for a later lift comes back into play. But why would he lie about that?

 

[MidsummersDay]

Thanks for the inside perspective, one question if I may, would the base let the police and family know that this had happened, if it had?

What happen? What transports? (Police get base commanders permission to ask questions and ask wrong 'transport system')....nope, nothing to see here. Move along please. Get my drift? In other words there would need to be a HELL OF A LOT of deep penetrative detective work to weed out if a transport system was even considered never mind ordered and recorded.
I'm being particularly vague and ambiguous for military reasons you understand.

 

[suzyjackson]

Yes, if the American lied about offering Corrie a lift then the possibility of him waiting for a later lift comes back into play. But why would he lie about that?

Maybe I've watched too many Hollywood films but imo the US forces might be covering something up. It's been posted more than once in the facebook group that the US base was unaware of Corrie's disapperance which I've though odd from the start, I'd have thought it would be one of the first places to make enquiries as it's very likely that people would know him there and would have seen him out in town that night

I don't suppose they'd be rushing to volunteer information if one or more of their personnel were involved in something that's got out of hand or there's been an accident

No disrespect to US servicemen, just thinking out loud

 

[suzyjackson]

What happen? What transports? (Police get base commanders permission to ask questions and ask wrong 'transport system')....nope, nothing to see here. Move along please. Get my drift? In other words there would need to be a HELL OF A LOT of deep penetrative detective work to weed out if a transport system was even considered never mind ordered and recorded.
I'm being particularly vague and ambiguous for military reasons you understand.

So, how are we going to sleuth that then ?:gaah:

 

[OrlandoJames]

It's possible. However, we know for a fact that Corrie parted company with the US serviceman at around 1.30am because Corrie is caught on CCTV in the doorway for two hours and then walking down towards Short Brackland on his own. So the only way the US serviceman could have been involved would be if he'd promised to give Corrie a lift later rather than immediately, and agreed to meet him in the bin area. It would be good to know if police have evidence of the US serviceman returning to base before 3.30, which would obviously rule him out.

 

[MidsummersDay]

So, how are we going to sleuth that then ?:gaah:

very, very difficult one to be honest.

 

[JamesKing]

I have never heard of a "mugger" taking a prisoner/hostage/whatever.

If he got in a car "unwillingly" and it was through "force", then you are talking "considerable force".
Or rather "incapacitating force".

Other than that, you are taking "serious cohesion". A weapon of some sort (and not a knife). And even then, you would be looking at a possible violent struggle because a choice for standing and fighting will be made. The perception of "you are dead anyway, if you get in that car" will be very real.

The other option is "being taken by surprise". And that would introduce an element of "knowing of" the person or persons. That doesn't meaning "knowing the person".

....maybe that is more consistent with "waiting for a pre-arranged meeting".

 

[JamesKing]

It's possible. However, we know for a fact that Corrie parted company with the US serviceman at around 1.30am because Corrie is caught on CCTV in the doorway for two hours and then walking down towards Short Brackland on his own. So the only way the US serviceman could have been involved would be if he'd promised to give Corrie a lift later rather than immediately, and agreed to meet him in the bin area. It would be good to know if police have evidence of the US serviceman returning to base before 3.30, which would obviously rule him out.

I kinda rule that out, because

# if you offer a lift, it is usually for the "now" period.
# if he'd accepted a lift, that means he's heading homewards "now" (and rather wait, you'd get a taxi)
# assuming the USAF guy lives "on base", there will be a record of his return.

 

[MidsummersDay]

I really find I hard to believe in this day and age that during the hours of darkness, working as a single crew operation, H&S legislation everywhere you look, Working Time Directives, Driver's Hours, Occupational Hazards, issue and receipt paperwork, automated weighing systems, Vehicle Serviceability Records, Fuel Uplift Records, Waste Transfer Documentation, End User Documentation, Orange vests, Personal Protective Equipment, access barriers and gates, monitored double yellow lines, domestic CCTV, GaTSO cameras, motion cameras, Tesco security cameras, vehicle anti theft trackers, mobile phone tracking, in cab Garmin GPS systems....that WE the public are unable to establish the movements of a primary piece of evidence (where/WHEN the bin lorry was in the area!!!).
Several dozen cars along the route and not one car alarm went off, no one was walking to the bus stops to go to work, no one was getting into their cars to go to or coming from work, no milkmen delivering, no dog walkers, revellers, cyclists.....nothing! I don't do conspiracy theories but I just find all this difficult to digest. How someone can potentially be mugged (in my opinion only), relieved of the contents of his pockets and wished into thin air is ludicrous. He has to be local and his phone has to be at Barton Mills recycle area. THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY..
Are we suggesting that given the one way system with the bounds of BSE central that this map is the ONLY way out a bin lorry could take (bare with me on this one)?

 

[OrlandoJames]

I kinda rule that out, because

# if you offer a lift, it is usually for the "now" period.
# if he'd accepted a lift, that means he's heading homewards "now" (and rather wait, you'd get a taxi)
# assuming the USAF guy lives "on base", there will be a record of his return.

I agree. I think the USAF guy is a highly unlikely suspect. And if he did indeed offer Corrie a lift earlier (and we have no reason to suspect he didn't), it tells us that Corrie was waiting around for something else.

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

Uncle Tony confirms the use of specific dating sights. One would imagine that Corrie would state his profession (always sure to catch the eye of an admirer). Therefore is it possible that a 3rd party with bad intentions has searched the dating site for servicemen, found Corrie and then arranged a meeting at 330? All under the ruse of a very attractive female who is "worth waiting around for"? Once profile is deleted from a site it is going to be hard to trace....

Also BSE provides an ideal location given (the now documented) lack of experience in leading disappearance investigations by the local police force.

 

[Deleted member 178385]

The only 'waiting for a lift' scenario I can think of would be if someone had offered him a lift at the end of their shift. This could be anyone working at the pubs/clubs/food places that shut around that time, who he could have had contact with at any point in the evening. It may not even have been a definite arrangement - just an 'if you're still in town at 3ish, I can give you a lift home' type offer. Not sure why nobody would have come forward about that though...

I can't remember where we heard about USAF guy offering him a lift - does anyone have a source?

 

[JamesKing]

Still following @TheTruth's comment from a couple of days ago now and revisited yesterday.

I'd like to know which camera saw the 3 kids at 4.20am (and precisely that time, it would appear).

I think there is corroborated evidence that a vehicle was seen driving in Short Brackland.
You have to remember that the statement used is "there is no way Corrie could walk out of Bury unnoticed".
This indicates ALL his possible exits were covered by CCTV. That includes Short Brackland also.

The word "unnoticed" is specific to "Corrie" and not anything else.

Put another way, the use of that word means that "having looked, but we did not see him".

Specif to Short Brackland, the question should be "What was noticed in that road and what was unnoticed".
The answer could be...we "noticed" a bin lorry, 3 kids and a car. And what was "unnoticed" was Corrie.

And key to this is, just because you "noticed" a car in that road, it does not mean that this car had anything to do with Corrie's possible departure. It wouldn't be classed as "third party involvement". It is circumstantial.

I think the line of enquiry that he could have been abducted, has been "live" for sometime.
And further, this would be something that would remain "unreported" as it may cause wider panic.

I don't think Uncle Tony would have been in any position to release this information.
And so this is a possible reason he searched for other CCTV opportunities. The one he found, he then could talk about. This would not be protected.

Just a thought.

 

[c4nd1_83]

Are you in the wrong service, later lifts available in the others:laughing:

No need to get personal!


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[JamesKing]

The only 'waiting for a lift' scenario I can think of would be if someone had offered him a lift at the end of their shift. This could be anyone working at the pubs/clubs/food places that shut around that time, who he could have had contact with at any point in the evening. It may not even have been a definite arrangement - just an 'if you're still in town at 3ish, I can give you a lift home' type offer. Not sure why nobody would have come forward about that though...

I can't remember where we heard about USAF guy offering him a lift - does anyone have a source?

"Not sure why nobody would have come forward about that though..."

Maybe because there is involvement ? You may not come forward then.

 

[MidsummersDay]

The only 'waiting for a lift' scenario I can think of would be if someone had offered him a lift at the end of their shift. This could be anyone working at the pubs/clubs/food places that shut around that time, who he could have had contact with at any point in the evening. It may not even have been a definite arrangement - just an 'if you're still in town at 3ish, I can give you a lift home' type offer. Not sure why nobody would have come forward about that though...

I can't remember where we heard about USAF guy offering him a lift - does anyone have a source?

...and if that WERE the case it would suggest someone that lives local to Honington if not on the base itself.