GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

  • #2,241
If all 257 pages referred to the children she’s accused of murdering then I’d agree that’s pretty damning. But if they’re just all the case records of the children under her care then I’d say it’s less so. I’m convinced she’s neurodivergent and keeping records is something someone on the spectrum (so to speak) would do quite fastidiously. They may have been labelled “keep” so that they didn’t accidentally get chucked away and end up being discovered - she’d know she wasn’t meant to take them but may have thought taking them for her own records/reflection/learning was less bad.

Similarly with the asterisks in her diary - were they ONLY on days the victims died, or were they on days other babies died too? It’s never made clear.

I hate how her handwritten notes have been used as evidence of her guilt. They’re clearly the ramblings of a mentally unwell person and cherry picking parts of sentences to fit a narrative is disgusting imo.
Sorry, but with the very greatest respect, these are the writings of someone who's looking for innocence, as opposed to someone following the evidence.

There was eight months of it which was followed by nearly a month of jury deliberations. Taking individual pieces and arguing how they aren't incriminating is to miss the whole point and has been done at MASSIVE length on for years!

She's guilty.

She did it.

Full stop!
 
  • #2,242
You say - ‘2. She was attempting to gather her own evidence for a grievance’.
Hand over sheets are printed off in ‘Real Time’ - ready for the start of the shift. Once the patient has been discharged from the ward using the hospital’s electronic system you cannot print off a ‘hand over sheet’ in retrospect. It’s absolutely impossible. So having 257 hand over sheets is pretty damning.
EDIT: Having 257 hand over sheets - goes against the NMC code of practice.
 
  • #2,243
  • #2,244
If all 257 pages referred to the children she’s accused of murdering then I’d agree that’s pretty damning. But if they’re just all the case records of the children under her care then I’d say it’s less so. I’m convinced she’s neurodivergent and keeping records is something someone on the spectrum (so to speak) would do quite fastidiously. They may have been labelled “keep” so that they didn’t accidentally get chucked away and end up being discovered - she’d know she wasn’t meant to take them but may have thought taking them for her own records/reflection/learning was less bad.

Similarly with the asterisks in her diary - were they ONLY on days the victims died, or were they on days other babies died too? It’s never made clear.

I hate how her handwritten notes have been used as evidence of her guilt. They’re clearly the ramblings of a mentally unwell person and cherry picking parts of sentences to fit a narrative is disgusting imo.
I also think she’s neurodivergent. I am, and I see a lot of myself in her behaviour. The handover notes, the post-it notes, how her behaviour was perceived. It’s likely why I’ve always taken such a deep interest in the case.

I’ll tell some stories to illustrate:

I used to work in a bank, between 2000-2010. In 2022, over a decade later, having moved house multiple times, I was looking through an old box of random paper I’d accumulated and found a print out of a random person’s mortgage application (absolutely no idea how I had this, don’t know the person, and I didn’t sell mortgages, perhaps I’d inadvertently taken it off the photocopier along with my own stuff? Who knows).

There were also multiple receipt slips I’d scibbled all over, account numbers on them, postcodes, all the kinds of things I’d be noting down in a day and stuffing in my pockets.

Letby’s post-it notes also look familiar to me. I scribble all day long, particularly when I’m on the phone or a teams meeting. For the purpose of writing this post, I just went and looked at my notebook. In today’s ramblings of a mad woman, the following strange phrases appear:

“Worry about it” (boxed, and scored heavily)

“I’m so mad” (with the word mad underlined).

“Hope for the best”

“Working is helping” (circled)

My own name is written 4 times.

The names of 5 of my colleagues appear.

“Epstein” also appears multiple times, lol

Despite these things being written by my own hand, TODAY, the only thing I have a clear memory of is “working is helping”. That was something said TO me: “I don’t think working is helping”, and they were talking about themselves.

I find it bizarre when I read that the handover notes had to have some special meaning, or why she wrote “on purpose”, because to me they have no relevance.
 
  • #2,245
The OP was just saying digging up the garden was' overkill in their opinion.
Ive heard it mentioned several times that they dug up her garden but I'm not convinced at all that they did anything of the sort.

Where is the actual evidence for it?

Why would they be looking for, exactly?
 
  • #2,246
  • #2,247
I also think she’s neurodivergent. I am, and I see a lot of myself in her behaviour. The handover notes, the post-it notes, how her behaviour was perceived. It’s likely why I’ve always taken such a deep interest in the case.

I’ll tell some stories to illustrate:

I used to work in a bank, between 2000-2010. In 2022, over a decade later, having moved house multiple times, I was looking through an old box of random paper I’d accumulated and found a print out of a random person’s mortgage application (absolutely no idea how I had this, don’t know the person, and I didn’t sell mortgages, perhaps I’d inadvertently taken it off the photocopier along with my own stuff? Who knows).

There were also multiple receipt slips I’d scibbled all over, account numbers on them, postcodes, all the kinds of things I’d be noting down in a day and stuffing in my pockets.

Letby’s post-it notes also look familiar to me. I scribble all day long, particularly when I’m on the phone or a teams meeting. For the purpose of writing this post, I just went and looked at my notebook. In today’s ramblings of a mad woman, the following strange phrases appear:

“Worry about it” (boxed, and scored heavily)

“I’m so mad” (with the word mad underlined).

“Hope for the best”

“Working is helping” (circled)

My own name is written 4 times.

The names of 5 of my colleagues appear.

“Epstein” also appears multiple times, lol

Despite these things being written by my own hand, TODAY, the only thing I have a clear memory of is “working is helping”. That was something said TO me: “I don’t think working is helping”, and they were talking about themselves.

I find it bizarre when I read that the handover notes had to have some special meaning, or why she wrote “on purpose”, because to me they have no relevance.
Well Victorino Chua did write a remarkably similar note to Letby. And I'd hazard a guess that the innocent nurse they arrested before they found the real culprit probably didn't have anything like that in her house...so that's one similarity Letby shares with a serial killer.

I think when people say they do a similar thing it's not really on the level of the type of things Lucy was writing. I understand her writing something like-this is all my fault, I'm such a failure, they died because of me etc. but not "I killed them on purpose"-that is very precise with no room for interpretation really. There's also no evidence at all that she's on the spectrum-and even if she is it doesn't mean she isn't still a killer.
 
  • #2,248
The OP was just saying digging up the garden was overkill in their opinion.
If you don't find anything, it's overkill.
If you do find evidence, then it was a good decision.
 
  • #2,249
I remember reading that, actually.

I'm still not convinced, though. It cites no source and there are no pictures of police with shovels anywhere I can find.

It's not protocol to dig up the garden of someone who's been arrested for killing people in hospital, as far as I'm aware. If you had reason to belive that evidence has been buried there then, yes, that's reasonable, but the police don't simply go digging up gardens on the off-chance.

There's no easy way to see into her back garden so how would anyone know?
 
  • #2,250
I think that’s the period at the very beginning that a neighbour tipped off the press whilst they were collecting evidence. They were checking everywhere including drains and gutters so maybe they did and we didn’t see photos.
Her supporters claimed it was the police leaking to MSM but it later turned out to be nothing or the sort.
 
  • #2,251
Just been searching for this. A FB group says that the police "ransacked" her house and later "ransaked" her parents house🤦‍♂️.

Utterly delusional!
 
  • #2,252
I also think she’s neurodivergent. I am, and I see a lot of myself in her behaviour. The handover notes, the post-it notes, how her behaviour was perceived. It’s likely why I’ve always taken such a deep interest in the case.

I’ll tell some stories to illustrate:

I used to work in a bank, between 2000-2010. In 2022, over a decade later, having moved house multiple times, I was looking through an old box of random paper I’d accumulated and found a print out of a random person’s mortgage application (absolutely no idea how I had this, don’t know the person, and I didn’t sell mortgages, perhaps I’d inadvertently taken it off the photocopier along with my own stuff? Who knows).

There were also multiple receipt slips I’d scibbled all over, account numbers on them, postcodes, all the kinds of things I’d be noting down in a day and stuffing in my pockets.

Letby’s post-it notes also look familiar to me. I scribble all day long, particularly when I’m on the phone or a teams meeting. For the purpose of writing this post, I just went and looked at my notebook. In today’s ramblings of a mad woman, the following strange phrases appear:

“Worry about it” (boxed, and scored heavily)

“I’m so mad” (with the word mad underlined).

“Hope for the best”

“Working is helping” (circled)

My own name is written 4 times.

The names of 5 of my colleagues appear.

“Epstein” also appears multiple times, lol

Despite these things being written by my own hand, TODAY, the only thing I have a clear memory of is “working is helping”. That was something said TO me: “I don’t think working is helping”, and they were talking about themselves.

I find it bizarre when I read that the handover notes had to have some special meaning, or why she wrote “on purpose”, because to me they have no relevance.
So you are neurodivergent and think Letby is. This explains every single post you have made in relation to this case. You have an inherent bias. You are unable to view any piece of evidence against Letby in an impartial manner. This is not a slight against yourself. It's JMO.
 
  • #2,253
Re the handover sheets it’s was already testified in court that the largest bundle was found in a bag for life under the bed, a more recent smaller bundle was in an Ibiza bag for life (the new post-Ibiza work bag), a few in the keep box, and her first ever one (pristine) in a keepsake box.

The fact the documentary showed a clip of a neat pile does not mean all 250 handover notes were in a neat pile. Quite frankly the documentary’s description of the handover notes is entirely at odds with court testimony.

Yes they were chronological, obviously they were chronological if she was adding to the stack each day. It would be weird if they were in a different order other than shift order.

Surely it would be more damning if the small number relating to the babies in the case were found together, or somehow separated out?

The only true new information about the handover sheets is that they weren’t folded.
Almost every single handover sheet relating to the babies was found underneath Letbys bed. It's important that they were kept chronologically because Letbys own testimony said they were just scraps of paper she brought home inadvertently without thought. Her own testimony exposed some lies. She also stated she had no awareness of them, yet by her own admission she was laundering her uniform every shift and removing them from her pockets.

So she had an awareness, that she was taking them every single shift. She took them out of her pockets. She kept them in different places. She moved with them on at least 5 occasions. She admitted in court that she had taken some with purpose. The idea that they meant nothing to her, is at odds with the very first one she took. She purposely took it and kept it in pristine condition in a keepsake box.

So it's an indisputable fact that Letby takes handover sheets home on purpose, keep them and attaches significance to them. She also had to admit to purposely taking another because she was good to apparently transcribe some notes from it. Yet the only note was I believe, "caffeine+"

This is before we get to the blood/gas document found in her possession, the fact she said she would have shredded them if she had a shredder etc.

She would have shredded them, if she had a shredder. That's what she told the police. But she did have a shredder didn't she. She didn't have any problem discarding her own personal data did she? She didn't feel the need to move property and hoard her bank statements for example. No, she shredded them. So she has perfect awareness of the importance of her own personal data, she shreds it. But she chooses not to shred the handover sheets

I personally believe that Letby absolutely did not want to admit any awareness of taking the handovers home on purpose, even though it was obvious that she did.

Why you might ask?


Of the 257 handover notes that LL had in her possession, there was a total of 31 handover sheets relating to 17 babies in this case, which were found in the Morrisons and Ibiza bags under her bed.

How did LL manage to organise these handover sheets for the babies in this case and put them together before they were deemed to be suspicious by the medical experts and police.

She had managed to isolate 31 notes of these 257 and of those 31, there are details of 13 babies from this case, over 17 handover sheets.

What gave LL the knowledge to specifically organise these 31 handover notes together, at a time when she was not suspected of any wrongdoing and before the point that any medical experts or police had decided, which were the cases of foul play.

Because at least 6 of the babies featured in these grouped handover notes did not die. At this point in time how was LL able to group the sheets for babies who had "unexpected collapses" amongst the babies who had died, away separately from the other 240 handover sheets in her possession?
 
  • #2,254
Almost every single handover sheet relating to the babies was found underneath Letbys bed. It's important that they were kept chronologically because Letbys own testimony said they were just scraps of paper she brought home inadvertently without thought. Her own testimony exposed some lies. She also stated she had no awareness of them, yet by her own admission she was laundering her uniform every shift and removing them from her pockets.

So she had an awareness, that she was taking them every single shift. She took them out of her pockets. She kept them in different places. She moved with them on at least 5 occasions. She admitted in court that she had taken some with purpose. The idea that they meant nothing to her, is at odds with the very first one she took. She purposely took it and kept it in pristine condition in a keepsake box.

So it's an indisputable fact that Letby takes handover sheets home on purpose, keep them and attaches significance to them. She also had to admit to purposely taking another because she was good to apparently transcribe some notes from it. Yet the only note was I believe, "caffeine+"

This is before we get to the blood/gas document found in her possession, the fact she said she would have shredded them if she had a shredder etc.

She would have shredded them, if she had a shredder. That's what she told the police. But she did have a shredder didn't she. She didn't have any problem discarding her own personal data did she? She didn't feel the need to move property and hoard her bank statements for example. No, she shredded them. So she has perfect awareness of the importance of her own personal data, she shreds it. But she chooses not to shred the handover sheets

I personally believe that Letby absolutely did not want to admit any awareness of taking the handovers home on purpose, even though it was obvious that she did.

Why you might ask?


Of the 257 handover notes that LL had in her possession, there was a total of 31 handover sheets relating to 17 babies in this case, which were found in the Morrisons and Ibiza bags under her bed.

How did LL manage to organise these handover sheets for the babies in this case and put them together before they were deemed to be suspicious by the medical experts and police.

She had managed to isolate 31 notes of these 257 and of those 31, there are details of 13 babies from this case, over 17 handover sheets.

What gave LL the knowledge to specifically organise these 31 handover notes together, at a time when she was not suspected of any wrongdoing and before the point that any medical experts or police had decided, which were the cases of foul play.

Because at least 6 of the babies featured in these grouped handover notes did not die. At this point in time how was LL able to group the sheets for babies who had "unexpected collapses" amongst the babies who had died, away separately from the other 240 handover sheets in her possession?

Makes you wonder what happened to make her keep the other 18 sheets.
 
  • #2,255
  • #2,256
  • #2,257
I like that article. It gives a detailed explanation to just how much work has gone into the prosecutions case and why ultimately she was convicted. It does also put into context how dr shoo lees conference isnt actually applicable.

I was doing some research on that infection from the sewage stuff and it actually doesnt sound medically correct from what i can gather. Heres the reasoning

Dr lees suggestion was that the bacteria was in the breathing tube and reached the babies lungs which then reacted immunologically and produced a thick white secretion that blocked the tube producing the symptons seen. Actually that bacteria is common on breathing tubes and doesnt always produce problems and heres why. The colony of bacteria in the intitial stages produces a biofilm, the biofilm is a kind of organic wall that makes a barrier between the bacteria and envirinment which is better for it to grow in. Its essentially the seed stage of bacterial growth and once the bacteria has grown enough the biofilm is released thus releasing the bacteria. In a body this is a active infection stage and you get the clinical signs of infection. In a colonisation stage the bacteria is actually still contained within the biofilm and thus doesnt interact with the body, there is no contact between body and bacteria and no immunological reaction. The body and immune system dont even register it as present so its not a problem. No contact between body and bacteria means no systemic reaction which means no infection which also means no thick white secretions which means no tube blockage.

In short there was no contact between the germs and the body so no reaction producing the white secretions.

Anyone with clinical experience on here would be familiar with suctioning to get those secretions out. So thats a measure so well documented and routine it wouldnt hav been missed.
 
  • #2,258
Here it is M

The crucial detail that those defending Lucy Letby are missing​

While a new Netflix film on the investigation of the nurse convicted of murder offers a new perspective, there is one vital question that no-one is asking, says David James Smith

Head shot of David James Smith

Friday 06 February 2026 06:00 GMT
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-innocent-netflix-b2914804.html#comments-area

Lucy Letby is serving 15 whole-life orders and a new documentary looks at how she came to be accused and eventually convicted

open image in gallery
Lucy Letby is serving 15 whole-life orders and a new documentary looks at how she came to be accused and eventually convicted(Cheshire Constabulary)
If nothing else, the new feature-length documentary on Netflix,The Investigation of Lucy Letby, offers some corrective to the growing clamour of doubt that surrounds her convictions. It gives a different viewpoint to those inclined to believe she has been the victim of a witch hunt, made a scapegoat for institutional failures, or even been the target of a conspiracy, involving her former hospital consultant colleagues and Cheshire police.

As the film reminds its audience, there was a case to answer: a prosecution case that crossed multiple hurdles and was subject to repeated challenges. That rigorous process stands in contrast to the claim that she has been the victim of a miscarriage of justice, as advocated on Netflix by Letby’s new barrister, Mark McDonald, and the head of his expert panel, Dr Shoo Lee.

Together with a Twitter/X army of “Letby truthers”, they have so far had free rein to put forward the case for Letby’s innocence in the media. Sooner or later, however, that fresh defence will bump up against the reality of legal scrutiny. The court of social media may have been swayed but it will not be so easy to convince the Criminal Cases Review Commission that there is a “real possibility” of success if it refers the case back to the Court of Appeal.

Many commentators appear to assume that step is a foregone conclusion. But the outcome is far from certain. It is worth remembering that Letby has not exactly been fast-tracked to penal oblivion. She was first suspected by some doctors in June 2015, but for a long time there was internal wrangling at the Countess of Chester Hospital – broadly, the consultants versus the managers and execs – that stymied any action.

More babies died, or suffered collapses, meanwhile. It was not until August 2016 that Letby was removed from her frontline role. It was still a further 10 months before the case was formally referred to Cheshire police, in May 2017, nearly two years after suspicions about her were
The new Netflix film documents what followed. The police spent the next year investigating and only then arrested Letby for the first time in July 2018. She was arrested for the second time a year later and finally rearrested and charged in November 2020, half a decade after suspicions that she was harming babies were first raised.

She was interviewed multiple times – and often answered opportunities to give her version of events with the replies, “no comment” or “I don’t remember”.

Although the film doesn’t say so, the decision to charge Letby and put her on trial was made not by the hospital consultants or the police but by the Crown Prosecution Service, observing a double-headed legal test that there is a realistic prospect of conviction and that a trial is in the public interest. We saw the CPS exercising its independent judgment just recently, when it declined to prosecute Letby for further offences. We don’t know the reasons, but we know – because they told us – that it was not the decision Cheshire police had hoped for.

After Letby was charged in late 2018, she had nearly two years to prepare her defence case for trial, which began on 4 October 4 2022 at Manchester Crown Court. Letby called only one expert witness – a plumber. But still the trial lasted for 10 months, during which time multiple expert witnesses for the prosecution were robustly cross-examined by Letby’s highly experienced trial counsel, Ben Myers KC.

Letby’s new barrister Mark McDonald in the new Netflix documentary

open image in gallery
Letby’s new barrister Mark McDonald in the new Netflix documentary (Netflix)
The last line (an on-screen caption) in the Netflix documentary is given to Myers, stating that he had declined to explain to the film why no defence experts were called. While that was Letby’s decision, not Myers’, it is likely that the KC and the rest of her legal team advised their client on the best course of action, and she agreed.

Unless or until Lucy Letby waives her right to legal confidentiality, Myers cannot tell anyone what passed between them, or how that critical trial decision came to be made.

The trial ended in August 2023, when Letby was convicted of seven murders and seven attempted murders, for which she received 14 whole life sentences. Letby faced a second trial for the attempted murder of Baby K and was convicted by a second jury in July 2024, when she was sentenced to a 15th whole life order.

By that time, Letby had also made her case for an appeal over a three-day hearing before a panel of three senior judges. She was again represented by Ben Myers KC, and now had the benefit of her own expert, Dr Shoo Lee, who gave evidence via video link from Canada, that the prosecution had misrepresented his earlier medical paper on air embolism.

Through a sequence of edits, the Netflix film implies that Lee was brought in by her new barrister, McDonald, but that was not what happened. Lee’s revised account of his earlier findings, and his claim that they had not been properly deployed by the prosecution, was considered at length by the Court of Appeal – and then rejected. Letby was refused leave to appeal.

It remains to be seen, given that failure at appeal, how Lee’s new evidence, and the evidence of his expert panel can help Letby further.

The Netflix documentary focuses on the death of baby “Zoe” and the moving testimony of her mother “Sarah”, who appears in “digitally anonymised” form. Letby was convicted of repeated attacks on Zoe, causing her death in June 2015. Letby could not remember, she said, searching Zoe’s parents on Facebook, three days after Zoe’s death.


Dr Shoo Lee is one of the experts working on a possible appeal bid for Letby (Netflix)
Sarah was surprised to find Dr Lee discussing Zoe’s death in public, at the July 2025 press conference when he outlined the work of his expert panel and said, “in summary, ladies and gentlemen, we did not find any evidence of murder”. He claimed Zoe had died instead because she had not been treated with antibiotics.

But this was not a revelation. Indeed, it had featured in the original trial when Zoe’s case was considered in great detail. The prosecutor had flagged up the concern in his opening speech to the jury, when he said that Zoe “should have been given antibiotics to stave off infection but she was not. That failure is a legitimate target of criticism”.

However, experts said that while Zoe might have died with an infection, she had not died of an infection. The jury heard the criticism – and observed the debate over the cause of Zoe’s death – but still convicted Letby. On that basis, Dr Lee’s evidence is not apparently new, in Zoe’s case, and is unlikely to find much favour with the CCRC. You can’t rehash trial evidence for an appeal. You have to have something new to argue, and it needs to be both relevant and substantial.

The documentary rightly focuses on what one contributor, Press Association court reporter, Kim Pilling, calls an “interesting” aspect of the case, namely, as he says, “the volume of circumstantial evidence. Singly (the strands) don’t prove she was a cold-blooded murderer, but when you bring it all together, you’d be forgiven for thinking, if this woman’s innocent, then she’s pretty unlucky.“

This indirect evidence of Letby’s guilt includes the 250 handover sheets, including some of the babies she was convicted of harming, that she took home (in breach of her professional duty) and carefully filed away in date order.

We see in the film an image of the box file marked “keep”, in which the papers were stored by Letby, sitting on the top shelf of a wardrobe. She is then seen in a police interview saying she had “inadvertently” taken the sheets home in her pocket and did not dispose of them because she didn’t have a shredder. But, we hear in the film, there was in fact a shredder where she was living. Indeed, Netflix shows us a photo of it.

And then there are the notorious Post-it notes which, it is suggested, were misrepresented to the jury as all being indicators of her guilt – “I am evil, I did this” – whereas, in fact they are a mixture of the damning and the exculpatory – “I am innocent”. But again, the jury heard and saw all this at trial. The two sides of Letby’s psyche, as revealed in the notes, were made clear by prosecutor Johnson in his opening speech.

Controversy surrounds the admission as evidence of Post-it notes on which the nurse supposedly admitted her guilt


Controversy surrounds the admission as evidence of Post-it notes on which the nurse supposedly admitted her guilt (Netflix)
The commission – and the Court of Appeal – will want to examine how the trial unfolded, what happened at the first appeal, and – first and foremost – they will be expecting to hear why the defence adopted the tactics it did, only calling one expert, a plumber.

In the Netflix film, Mark McDonald says he doesn’t know why that happened. It is easy to say this in public, but not knowing will not satisfy the CCRC or the Court of Appeal.



There must be a reason – we know the trial defence team instructed multiple experts, they just never called any of them. Why?

If that was an error (which in itself is implausible) Letby may have some hope, but if it was the best tactical decision that could be made at the time, then unless McDonald has uncovered some genuinely startling fresh evidence that might have altered the outcome of the trial, evidence that the CCRC is satisfied will stand up to the scrutiny of cross examination and the court, and there will be little hope for Letby’s future freedom.
 
  • #2,259
She doesnt like the netflix documentary vwry much.


Pay walled, unfortunately.

Can someone summarise it?
Its basically just saying how dr lees "new" evidence isnt new, was covered a fair bit in original trial so might not get passed the ccrc. Also emphasises just how much work went into the original trial. That the trial was fair and not a witch hunt evidenced by her not being charged recently. Also why it was fair even with no med experts for the defence and this was her decision as instructed by her top team and was likely in her best interests. Covers the documentary a bit.

And oooooh a picture of the shredder is in tbe documentary. Why did no one mention that?
 

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