What is your #1 indicator that Terri is *NOT* involved in Kyron's disappearance?

What is your #1 indicator that Terri is *NOT* involved in Kyron's disappearance?

  • no evidence pointing to her

    Votes: 33 12.6%
  • Kaine's lack of suspicion for weeks

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • good demeanor reported by all who saw her that day

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • nobody saw her leave school w/Kyron

    Votes: 14 5.3%
  • no evidence in the truck/LE didn't impound

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • always took such good care of Kyron

    Votes: 5 1.9%
  • I haven't seen anything that makes me think she is not guilty

    Votes: 121 46.2%
  • I haven't seen ANYTHING that makes me think Terri is guilty.

    Votes: 9 3.4%
  • haven't seen any solid evidence

    Votes: 40 15.3%
  • The improbable complexity of the plan that she would have had to carry out.

    Votes: 15 5.7%
  • Pretty much all of the above!

    Votes: 15 5.7%
  • She failed LD. Test and never fought accusations against her

    Votes: 4 1.5%

  • Total voters
    262
  • Poll closed .
Things just didn't add up for me.The dots aren't connecting and the pieces of the puzzle are not fitting.But LE hasn't given out too much information for us to really figure this out.I don't think Terri had anything to do with little Kyrons disappearance.I think LE apparantly focused on Terri from the very start.I feel they were wrong and should have and need to now look somewhere else.No disrespect to them.They just need to look somewhere else also.The keepers or the scapers and others or even this guy?Have they looked into this guy?I feel they should.

http://beavertonpolice.org/publications/press2010/Updategpsa.pdf
 
Things just didn't add up for me.The dots aren't connecting and the pieces of the puzzle are not fitting.But LE hasn't given out too much information for us to really figure this out.I don't think Terri had anything to do with little Kyrons disappearance.I think LE apparantly focused on Terri from the very start.I feel they were wrong and should have and need to now look somewhere else.No disrespect to them.They just need to look somewhere else also.The keepers or the scapers and others or even this guy?Have they looked into this guy?I feel they should.

http://beavertonpolice.org/publications/press2010/Updategpsa.pdf

Dots aren't connecting for me either.

How far away is this park from Skyline school and how far away is the park that was initially identified where it happened?
 
I feel this guy should very seriously be looked into.He was pretty cocky assaulting this boy in broad daylight in a public place.The school is a public place also.I feel he assaulted this little boy he probably did it before to other little boys and possibly little Kyron and this incident was about 2 months after Kyron disappeared.

http://www.oregonlive.com/beaverton...ual_assault_at_fanno_creek_park.html#comments
 
I feel this guy should very seriously be looked into.He was pretty cocky assaulting this boy in broad daylight in a public place.The school is a public place also.I feel he assaulted this little boy he probably did it before to other little boys and possibly little Kyron and this incident was about 2 months after Kyron disappeared.

http://www.oregonlive.com/beaverton...ual_assault_at_fanno_creek_park.html#comments

Cocky from getting away with nabbing a child maybe and no one have a clue?



Also, how tall do you guys think the skyline groundskeeper is?
 
I was suddenly and weirdly reminded of the Amber Dubois and Chelsea King cases.
 
While I personally have not seen enough to think Terri is guilty, something in me tells me that LE must know something crucial as I have never seen such an all-out "assault" on a person like this before, that I can recall. At least in those cases with false confessions, i.e. Kevin Fox, he did confess, however wrongly. Here, we seem to have a woman with her morning pretty much accounted for, as far as the initial crucial hour or two, no known motive, no physical evidence, etc...and yet there is no doubt that LE has latched onto Terri and is not letting go. There has to be something more than failed LD's and the nebulous MFH allegations, and a mother's intuition. But what??
 
While I personally have not seen enough to think Terri is guilty, something in me tells me that LE must know something crucial as I have never seen such an all-out "assault" on a person like this before, that I can recall. At least in those cases with false confessions, i.e. Kevin Fox, he did confess, however wrongly. Here, we seem to have a woman with her morning pretty much accounted for, as far as the initial crucial hour or two, no known motive, no physical evidence, etc...and yet there is no doubt that LE has latched onto Terri and is not letting go. There has to be something more than failed LD's and the nebulous MFH allegations, and a mother's intuition. But what??

I've gone through this list myself, especially as it relates to Kyron's case. I tend to block out the MFH plot. I have no idea whether it's true or not, but it tends to muddy the waters in terms of evidence directly related to this case, so I block it out a lot of times when I'm analyzing.

We know Terri and Kyron attended the Science Fair that morning.

We know Terri left sometime prior to 9:00 a.m.

We know LE does not have a murder scene, evidence of a murder scene, evidence of a murder weapon, forensic evidence a murder occurred, or any circumstantial or forensic evidence that points to Kyron's death.

We know Terri has not confessed.

We know Dede has not confessed.

We know Terri was telling the truth about how she spent at least part of her morning (per Andrea and labeled LE photos from the FM parking lot).

We know baby K was with Terri for at least part of the morning (per Andrea at FM).

We know Terri was home around 1:00 p.m. and posting on Facebook.

We know when Kaine came home, he stated nothing was amiss.

In my very strong but humble opinion, I do not believe LE has witnesses that place Kyron outside the school in, around, or near Terri's truck when she was leaving. I don't believe anyone saw him leave with her. If that was the case, all the questionnaires would be unnecessary, IMHO.

So, IMHO, LE doesn't have a witness who saw Kyron leave with Terri, part of Terri's day has been corroborated by an independent witness, and there is no evidence of a murder, murder scene, murder weapon, or that any death has occurred.

If LE has no evidence Kyron is not alive, even if they believe he is not alive, then they must not have any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, IMHO, that points to his death.

Even when Terri was sexting Michael Cook, she said she missed her kids. She told another friend she wanted Kyron to come home. Her texts aren't filled with evidence that directly implicates her in Kyron's disappearance, even if her sexting is completely inappropriate and self-destructive.

What do they have? Questionable Internet searches? IMHO, if Terri was researching ways in which to kill someone or something that pointed to how or why she may have killed Kyron, that would register in the evidence category as to whether or not Kyron is alive. I don't believe LE would continue to assert that there is "no evidence" he is not alive, if there was even circumstantial evidence on Terri's computer.

IMHO, they've got the cell phone pings, and we haven't heard much about those in the past month and a half, the hour or so Terri was driving baby K around, and whatever issues with the polygraphs. Based on what they don't have, and based on the pleas for help and the release of the questionnaires, I think there is enough information to make a reasonable guess about what they do have. IMHO, they don't have much. IMHO, in the absence of a more likely suspect, Terri became the suspect by default -- then came Desiree's instincts, Terri's odd behavior per Desiree and Kaine, the issues with the polygraphs (if there were any), the portion of Terri's alibi not verifiable, the MFH plot, the sexting, and the batphones. Honestly, what happened in the aftermath is what, IMHO, has convinced LE of their position or has justified it, but also IMHO, everything that has happened in the aftermath is reasonably explainable. I may not agree with what has happened, or the choices made, but I don't think what's happened requires any great leaps of logic or Terri being guilty, either.
 
I've gone through this list myself, especially as it relates to Kyron's case. I tend to block out the MFH plot. I have no idea whether it's true or not, but it tends to muddy the waters in terms of evidence directly related to this case, so I block it out a lot of times when I'm analyzing.

We know Terri and Kyron attended the Science Fair that morning.

We know Terri left sometime prior to 9:00 a.m.

We know LE does not have a murder scene, evidence of a murder scene, evidence of a murder weapon, forensic evidence a murder occurred, or any circumstantial or forensic evidence that points to Kyron's death.

We know Terri has not confessed.

We know Dede has not confessed.

We know Terri was telling the truth about how she spent at least part of her morning (per Andrea and labeled LE photos from the FM parking lot).

We know baby K was with Terri for at least part of the morning (per Andrea at FM).

We know Terri was home around 1:00 p.m. and posting on Facebook.

We know when Kaine came home, he stated nothing was amiss.

In my very strong but humble opinion, I do not believe LE has witnesses that place Kyron outside the school in, around, or near Terri's truck when she was leaving. I don't believe anyone saw him leave with her. If that was the case, all the questionnaires would be unnecessary, IMHO.

So, IMHO, LE doesn't have a witness who saw Kyron leave with Terri, part of Terri's day has been corroborated by an independent witness, and there is no evidence of a murder, murder scene, murder weapon, or that any death has occurred.

If LE has no evidence Kyron is not alive, even if they believe he is not alive, then they must not have any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, IMHO, that points to his death.

Even when Terri was sexting Michael Cook, she said she missed her kids. She told another friend she wanted Kyron to come home. Her texts aren't filled with evidence that directly implicates her in Kyron's disappearance, even if her sexting is completely inappropriate and self-destructive.

What do they have? Questionable Internet searches? IMHO, if Terri was researching ways in which to kill someone or something that pointed to how or why she may have killed Kyron, that would register in the evidence category as to whether or not Kyron is alive. I don't believe LE would continue to assert that there is "no evidence" he is not alive, if there was even circumstantial evidence on Terri's computer.

IMHO, they've got the cell phone pings, and we haven't heard much about those in the past month and a half, the hour or so Terri was driving baby K around, and whatever issues with the polygraphs. Based on what they don't have, and based on the pleas for help and the release of the questionnaires, I think there is enough information to make a reasonable guess about what they do have. IMHO, they don't have much. IMHO, in the absence of a more likely suspect, Terri became the suspect by default -- then came Desiree's instincts, Terri's odd behavior per Desiree and Kaine, the issues with the polygraphs (if there were any), the portion of Terri's alibi not verifiable, the MFH plot, the sexting, and the batphones. Honestly, what happened in the aftermath is what, IMHO, has convinced LE of their position or has justified it, but also IMHO, everything that has happened in the aftermath is reasonably explainable. I may not agree with what has happened, or the choices made, but I don't think what's happened requires any great leaps of logic or Terri being guilty, either.

Very organized post--I have to agree with everything you wrote! Thank you. :)
 
Some great points have been brought up. The main pointers to her innocence to me are:
1) Even Kaine admitted & the school that she had been a great mum to Kyron.
2) No evidence, witnesses that put Terri with Kyron after she says she left him at school.
3) The murder for hire plot made the police look like idiots as she called 911 to report the landscaper. Why would she do that if he had anything on her? Also why did he not report this before?
4) Lack of motive, how does this benefit her?
5) After huge amount of pressure her & Dede have still not cracked.

The main thing about her that negates this for many people is Terri's demeanour. Her bahaviour also troubles me. I genuinely think LE has very little evidence though & there's no way there is enough to convict.
 
Some great points have been brought up. The main pointers to her innocence to me are:
1) Even Kaine admitted & the school that she had been a great mum to Kyron.
2) No evidence, witnesses that put Terri with Kyron after she says she left him at school.
3) The murder for hire plot made the police look like idiots as she called 911 to report the landscaper. Why would she do that if he had anything on her? Also why did he not report this before?
4) Lack of motive, how does this benefit her?
5) After huge amount of pressure her & Dede have still not cracked.

The main thing about her that negates this for many people is Terri's demeanour. Her bahaviour also troubles me. I genuinely think LE has very little evidence though & there's no way there is enough to convict.

I don't understand your comment in #3 about the MFH plot. The way I see it is that Terri was smart enough to suspect (correctly) that this guy (who she knew, remember) was now part of a sting and she called 911 to "innocently" report that someone what trying to get money out her or whatever it was she said. If she had acted in any other way, had any kind of conversation with him, etc., she could have ended up incriminating herself.

Anything other than calling the police would have looked bad, and could have easily resulted in her accidentily saying something that would allude to her previous dealings with him.
 
To me the way Terri acted when the police triesd to trap her speaks more for her innocence than not. The way some tell it, she can't win. Her action by calling 911 on the landscaper whn he was part of the police sting would be the actions of an innocent person. Some assume she knew it was a sting, but we don't know that, that's just the way LE saved face because they made a mess of it. I am suspicious of Terri, but she is judged guilty whatever she does, even if the facts don't show it.
 
IMO it's not as much that she can't win, it's just that the MFH sting doesn't conclusively prove that she wins. Both an innocent person and a guilty person who had been to enough interviews to know she was a suspect and had enough common sense to be afraid that LE might try to trip her up would have done the same thing and called the police, because it's in the guilty person's best interest to try to appear like an innocent person. A guilty person who felt really threatened and scared might also call the cops anyhow. We don't know how she phrased her 911 call either, whether she revealed what the landscaper was saying she tried to do or if she just reported generic threats.
 
But when looking at evidence and facts we can't assume she knew. The landscaper hadn't reported her to LE before. I am very suspicious of the landscaper's story anyway, why didn't he report her before? I think he is someone who is trying to inject himself into this case, an attention seeker. Terri is not a stupid woman, if people believe she committed this crime then she had the brains & cold hearted cunning to have everyone stumped about how it happened. This doesn't tally with a woman who tries to hire another man to kill her husband, another person who can't be trusted to not tell the police. And surely if she wasn't able to kill her husband without hiring someone, then how would she be capable of harming a 7 year old child, she had raised from being a baby? I too am suspicious of her, it's just that the evidence is not there.
 
Unless I have completely missed something, LE has yet to declare that anyone has been eliminated as a suspect. To me that means that nothing and no one has been ruled out - not just TH.
 
But when looking at evidence and facts we can't assume she knew. The landscaper hadn't reported her to LE before. I am very suspicious of the landscaper's story anyway, why didn't he report her before? I think he is someone who is trying to inject himself into this case, an attention seeker. Terri is not a stupid woman, if people believe she committed this crime then she had the brains & cold hearted cunning to have everyone stumped about how it happened. This doesn't tally with a woman who tries to hire another man to kill her husband, another person who can't be trusted to not tell the police. And surely if she wasn't able to kill her husband without hiring someone, then how would she be capable of harming a 7 year old child, she had raised from being a baby? I too am suspicious of her, it's just that the evidence is not there.

Yes, it is a definite weakness in the LS story that it took him so long to report it.

TY said that he explained to the others in the beginning that the police would look into the family's business first and IMO if TH remembered having any shady dealings with she would have got worried about it when they got conscious about the police tracking down contacts, having access to phone records and financial transactions and whatnot.

I suppose my criminal mind just sees more options for criminal creativity. If someone can't bear to harm a person with their own two hands they can still be involved in several kinds of crime that either doesn't mean physically hurting that person or includes an accomplice for that part.

I can also see several other reasons for considering a murder for hire plan than simply being unable to bear the thought of doing it oneself. For one thing, it is easier to get an airtight alibi if it's committed by someone else. It might be necessary if you're the spouse and the obvious suspect because you have been fighting and you have most to gain financially from the death (I have no idea who would have inherited what, just speculating.) You can't hope to have your spouse's death explained as an act of a random pedophile so you have to have some other plan. The logistics of harming a grown adult male who works out and hiding a small child involve a different scale problems and might be approached with different solutions.

But the landscaper would have more credibility if he had reported it straight away. It would be interesting to know if he's got any written communication to show or if it's just his word.
 
No offense to locals, as where I live is no better, but Portland seems to have its fair share of weirdos and perverts...something a defense might use to its advantage if a case goes forward that is purely circumstantial...
 
I think I remember that Kaine said early on that he was unaware of Terri hiring any Landscaping work done around the house. IIRC then that may be significant. It may bring into question of Terri and this man actually met each other which might explain why Terri might feel more comfortable asking him to kill her husband.

His "profession" might just be a way to identify this man without saying his name...but he and Terri may not have met in his official "landscaping" capacity. Whatever way they know each other, and the story behind it...might be MUCH different than a customer asking her Landscaper out of the blue to do a "hit."

I believe he was located through emails. Maybe those emails reference much more than hostas and begonias.

I wonder why his name has been held back as well. Other names like DeDe's have been released. How does the Landscaper rate anonymity from LE?
 

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