What is your #1 indicator that Terri is *NOT* involved in Kyron's disappearance?

[chairdancer]

The fact she was the prime suspect and when they couldn't reconcile that with the evidence they created an accomplice. First it was DeDe now it is someone else a man near or in the truck. They have tunnel vision and new lens is just a play off the theory they knew they couldn't prove. In the mean time where is Kyron!

 

[citigirl]

I think I remember that Kaine said early on that he was unaware of Terri hiring any Landscaping work done around the house. IIRC then that may be significant. It may bring into question of Terri and this man actually met each other which might explain why Terri might feel more comfortable asking him to kill her husband.

His "profession" might just be a way to identify this man without saying his name...but he and Terri may not have met in his official "landscaping" capacity. Whatever way they know each other, and the story behind it...might be MUCH different than a customer asking her Landscaper out of the blue to do a "hit."

I believe he was located through emails. Maybe those emails reference much more than hostas and begonias.

I wonder why his name has been held back as well. Other names like DeDe's have been released. How does the Landscaper rate anonymity from LE?

The pretty much haven't released the names of those who appear to be cooperating. If the landscaper were not cooperating and Kaine and Desiree knew his name, they would have called him out by now....

 

[PDXMom]

No offense to locals, as where I live is no better, but Portland seems to have its fair share of weirdos and perverts...something a defense might use to its advantage if a case goes forward that is purely circumstantial...

It appears you're correct. I found this map of registered SOs in the US and Oregon has 21,760 registered offenders, or 574 per 100,000. The highest per capita, if I'm reading it right. Ew.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127235597&ft=1&f=1003

 

[cluciano63]

It appears you're correct. I found this map of registered SOs in the US and Oregon has 21,760 registered offenders, or 574 per 100,000. The highest per capita, if I'm reading it right. Ew.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127235597&ft=1&f=1003

Wow-I thought it just seemed that way, but maybe they really do have more. Again, this does not exactly hurt the defense...and also offers up too many scary possibilities.

 

[PDXMom]

Wow-I thought it just seemed that way, but maybe they really do have more. Again, this does not exactly hurt the defense...and also offers up too many scary possibilities.

ITA. Even though I still believe Terri is the most involved party and is responsible for Kyron's disappearance, I have to say I've been sneaking a toe up on the fence in the last week or two. I just need something concrete before I can shake this growing feeling of LE tunnel vision....I'm stubborn and I believe there is something concrete, but I haven't heard it, and it makes it hard for me to believe she's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Some great points have been brought up. The main pointers to her innocence to me are:
1) Even Kaine admitted & the school that she had been a great mum to Kyron.Even Casey Anthony has been said by the majority of ppl that knew her and Caylee that she was a "great mom" too. The same goes for several other infamous mom's who've been convicted&sentenced to death row for murdering their own fleah&blood children
2) No evidence, witnesses that put Terri with Kyron after she says she left him at school. We, as the public have no info whatsoever to base the answer of "no, there is no evidence or witness" infact IF(and thats a BIG if because personally I am staying neutral until more is known)but IF anything we have DY stating there is a "credible witness" to Kyron being outside of school in and/or around the truck.
3) The murder for hire plot made the police look like idiots as she called 911 to report the landscaper. Why would she do that if he had anything on her? Also why did he not report this before?a) Because LE trying too quickly to get the final straw of evidence needed to get her charged and "locked up" for the MFH plot, in their hasty move it WAS MORE THAN APPARENT that LS was there per LE to get such evidence. Terri knew this&did the only thing she could do at that point(IMO), knowing that LE had traced her back to LS&whatever "discussions" theyd had about Kaine&MFH. She couldn't act like it wasn't happening. SHE KNEW LE KNEW..
b)No one knows for sure why he didn't go to LE and no one will know for sure til all evidence is brought to light(and even then possibly still may never know)But I'd be willing to bet whats in my savings acct[pretty good amt considering I've been forcing myself to put back my "shopping" moo-lah..lol] But I'd be willing to bet it that LS has a criminal history and/or is "illegal" either way the last thing he'd want is his name anywhere near LE's ears or mouths(sadly even at the cost of an innocent 7yr old boy)

4) Lack of motive, how does this benefit her? LE/DA do NOT have to offer, give, nor prove motive and IMO motives are irrelevant when you are talking about the "motives" of a person that in many of our opinions is sociopathic&more than likely the true motive would be as irrational&nonsensical, just as many of a sociopaths thoughts, processes and actions are.(e.g. engaging in graphic sexual behaviours with a person within days of a little boy that she called her "son" and he called "mom" "disappearing"[and what many of us believe that makes these behaviours even more disturbing is that she is the very one who "disappeared" him])
5) After huge amount of pressure her & Dede have still not cracked. ppl who feel justified in their inappropriate behaviours and actions, who feel as tho their intelligence outwits that of LE, and who feel and truly believe they have thus far "gotten away with it", why in the world would they "crack"[spill the beans] and guarantee themselves a nice long stay behind bars? when they are walking around scott free and "believe" that in time this will "all blow over" and then Terri can start rebuilding her life back.. possibly in her opinion EVEN BETTER THAN EVER. In spilling the beans there would be no chance of this new life ever happening.[this last part is IMO exactly how Terri sees things and is why she carries herself with such assuredness that IMO comes off like callous, arrogant, self centered(i.e. sociopathic)]

The main thing about her that negates this for many people is Terri's demeanour. Her bahaviour also troubles me. I genuinely think LE has very little evidence though & there's no way there is enough to convict.

Opposing view, thought, or opinion is what is above in RED...

This in no way is meant to be rude or negating your opinion, Sherz. Am just giving the flip side which may or may NOT make sense or seem logical to some.. But all in all is just our own personal views, thoughts, or opinions on the very many sad and frustrating aspects of this case

 

[Sherazhad]

The difference between Casey Anthony & Terri is that there is far more evidence that she wasn't a great mum:
1) The huge one being she didn't report her child missing for over a month.
2) She took her 2 year old to a nightclub.
3) She took her child to sleep over with her at boyfriend's houses.
4) nShe called her 'snothead'.

I haven't seen any evidence against Terri like this that she wasn't a good mother. Many people can testify that someone is a good mum, but it's their actions that prove it.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

Have they found out anything new on this guy?

http://beavertonpolice.org/publications/press2010/Updategpsa.pdf

Is this the same park where this woman's body was found a week later and how far from Skyline School is this park? TIA

http://www.kptv.com/news/24734068/detail.html

ETA: Never mind, answered my own question - 29 minutes!

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Is this the same park where this woman's body was found a week later and how far from Skyline School is this park? TIA

http://www.kptv.com/news/24734068/detail.html

ETA: Never mind, answered my own question - 29 minutes!

I believe it is.

Here is an article about the little boy and the man suspect.I believe strongly this man suspect should be looked into Kyrons disappearance also.

http://www.oregonlive.com/beaverton...ual_assault_at_fanno_creek_park.html#comments

 

[Scamperoo]

I climbed on the fence early in this case and I'm still there..

1. I look at Kyron's pictures and I see a happy little boy without fear of those around him who loved and was loved.
2. Terri left school at 8:45, we know this because she had to drive 7 miles from the school to the Fred Myers buy her daughters medicine and get checked out @ 9:12 am according to the receipt.
3. Not finding everything she wanted she went to another Fred Myer a couple of miles away where she bumped into a gym friend who also stated the baby was sick and Terri was holding her. The time was about 9:30.
4. Police state that Terri was not the last person to have seen Kyron and that he was last seen at 9am, Terri must have been in the first Fred Myers at this time. Terri could not have been at or near the school when Kyron went missing.
5. She had a sick baby with her.

So who took him from the school or did he wander off on his own? Was it a stranger or an accomplice? and if it were an accomplice, accomplice to whom? I do believe she could have had a hand in it but I still think there is a lot of room for doubt. Until I see hard evidence I'm not going to rush to judge.

 

[Melanie]

She hasnt been arrested or even named a POI. That pretty much does it for me. I'd like to think and hope that LE is doing their job.

Oh and the whole grand jury thing. Nothing seemed to come of that

MOO

Mel

 

[Carolina Girl]

I don't think Terri is Guilty or innocent..just do not have enough info. I wish I did, This baby needs to come HOME. Who really knows what kind of "games"were being played?

 

[fryhisbutt]

I voted her caring for Ky all these years. I know it happens, but it really isn't very often that a mother/step mother kills her own child. If she did do that, I have the feeling it was accidental, because I still have a problem with motive. Even KH and DY basically said she was a good mom. KH said he didn't see it coming, the MFHP, etc. And that up until he found out about it, after Ky went missing, he saw nothing in TH out of the ordinary.
Her friends all say she was a good Mom to Kyron, her family....I've heard nothing otherwise other than the comment by DY that Kyron didn't want to go home to TH & KH. And that could have been nothing.

From the evidence we've seen, or lack thereof, I just hope
and pray that LE hasn't blown this one and they've wasted all this energy on TH when someone else has taken Kyron.

Also if TH was involved, I think Kyron may be gone. AND I SO HOPE AND PRAY THAT HE IS ALIVE SOMEWHERE!

I really, really wish that were true, unfortunately an estimated 1,760 child fatalities in 2007. This translates to a rate of 2.35 children per 100,000 children in the general population.
http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/fatality.cfm

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/children-die-day-abuse-neglect-us/story?id=8883519

 

[Kat010]

I really, really wish that were true, unfortunately an estimated 1,760 child fatalities in 2007. This translates to a rate of 2.35 children per 100,000 children in the general population.
http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/fatality.cfm

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/children-die-day-abuse-neglect-us/story?id=8883519

But according to that report, not all of those deaths are caused by the mother (as you bolded in the prior post).

"
No matter how the fatal abuse occurs, one fact of great concern is that the perpetrators are, by definition, individuals responsible for the care and supervision of their victims. In 2007, one or both parents were responsible for 69.9 percent of child abuse or neglect fatalities. More than one-quarter (27.1 percent) of these fatalities were perpetrated by the mother acting alone. Child fatalities with unknown perpetrators accounted for 16.4 percent of the total.
There is no single profile of a perpetrator of fatal child abuse, although certain characteristics reappear in many studies. Frequently, the perpetrator is a young adult in his or her mid-20s, without a high school diploma, living at or below the poverty level, depressed, and who may have difficulty coping with stressful situations. In many instances, the perpetrator has experienced violence firsthand. Most fatalities from physical abuse are caused by fathers and other male caregivers. Mothers are most often held responsible for deaths resulting from child neglect (U.S. Advisory Board on Child Abuse and Neglect, 1995). "

 

[liz b.]

KATU's report about the fact that investigators have reason to believe that DeDe Spicher was not the person seen in or around the Horman truck perplexes me,because it seems that the cast of possible accomplices is expanding.... Makes it just less believable that a bunch of possible accomplices would have been involved... IMO

But, the one outstanding fact for me is that, at least up until fairly recently, TH looks to have been a closet drunk. According to her husband,and people who said that they noticed liquor missing after she visited... Does not sound,IMO, like someone who could conceive and carry out a plan of almost Machiavellian proportions.... full of byzantine twists and turns... It all seems so....implausible. I am mindful though that I do not know this woman at al, and don't know what she's capable of doing....

 

[Donjeta]

It was said that the worst of her drinking was in 2005. It was not quite clear when or if it had stopped but I got the impression she may have been sober afterwards. According to Kaine it got better after she got arrested. I don't think that we have enough information to say she has a current drinking problem severe enough to incapacitate her mentally. But if she is a (recovering) alcoholic I think she may have a hard time now, be tempted to relapse, with all the stress. I hope she has someone to support her over the tough times.

On July 10, 2005, she was pulled over by police on Interstate 5 near Woodburn just after 6 p.m. Given a breath test, she registered 0.15. Under Oregon law, it is illegal to drive with a blood alcohol level of 0.08 percent or more.

Terri pleaded guilty to reckless endangerment for driving under the influence with James, then 11, in the car. She paid a nearly $600 fine and completed a diversion program.

She later admitted to Kaine that she had been drinking behind his back to put herself to sleep.

On her Facebook page, she said 2005 marked a low point in her life.

Domestic troubles

Their relationship had many ups and downs, but Kaine said after the drunken-driving arrest that her attitude and their home life improved.

"Home life improved" is not quite the same as saying "she quit drinking" and "a low point of her life" is not quite the same as saying "That's when she drank the most" but it might be close, IMO.

 

[liz b.]

It was said that the worst of her drinking was in 2005. It was not quite clear when or if it had stopped but I got the impression she may have been sober afterwards. According to Kaine it got better after she got arrested. I don't think that we have enough information to say she has a current drinking problem severe enough to incapacitate her mentally. But if she is a (recovering) alcoholic I think she may have a hard time now, be tempted to relapse, with all the stress. I hope she has someone to support her over the tough times.



"Home life improved" is not quite the same as saying "she quit drinking" and "a low point of her life" is not quite the same as saying "That's when she drank the most" but it might be close, IMO.

I do remember reading that her husband said that the drinking had "lessened"...but, what I doubt is that she would have the discipline,and the clarity of thought to plan and carry out a murder. Not to mention the skill to hide a body so well... MOO She now lives with her parents,and doesn't seem to go out much.Unless her parents are buying liquor for her, I doubt that she's drinking. I always wondered if she had gotten help for her problem.Hope so....


Doesn't preclude TH harming Kyron in a fit of anger.But,that would not require planning skills.Hiding his body would,though. And if she did harm him in anger, I don't know where she could have done so...In the school someplace ? Then what ? That scenario is weak, IMO.... All JMO

 

[Donjeta]

IDK, I seem to remember a few alcohol addicted criminals who hid bodies. She worked as an assistant manager in a restaurant in 2007 and I think she would have needed to demonstrate some skills to plan and carry out complex tasks to survive in that job, and possibly also when volunteering at Kyron's school (I'm not sure what she did).

 

[liz b.]

IDK, I seem to remember a few alcohol addicted criminals who hid bodies. She worked as an assistant manager in a restaurant in 2007 and I think she would have needed to demonstrate some skills to plan and carry out complex tasks to survive in that job, and possibly also when volunteering at Kyron's school (I'm not sure what she did).

Donjeta,
IIRC, it was mentioned that she did read to the children. And of course, the drinking information came from her husband. IMO I don't see her being able to plan and execute a cold blooded murder,if she was a daily drinker. Respectfully, I don't think being an assistant manager at a restaurant is on quite the same level ....

But then, as I indicated I personally don't know her....

All JMO

 

[Donjeta]

I suppose it's mostly academic since we don't know for sure how much she has been drinking lately but I think performing well in a managerial level job, or any regular employment for that matter, quite often turns out to be more demanding for addicted people than the execution of a one-off crime. Alcoholics may have some pretty twisted motives for murder and are able to deliver fatal blows, dig holes and lie IMO.

I truly hope that she wasn't impaired most of the time because she was the primary caretaker of a small toddler and volunteered at the school with little children and drove a car with children in it. It would be rather scary if no one noticed she did it drunk and even scarier if they noticed but just didn't care.