17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #8

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I just watched a video in which a person claims he'd worked with Zimmerman in the past in the neighborhood watch program. Granted their program wasn't registered nationally, and that in itself may be problematic because there should be one set of rules in place for all such watch programs, but here is what I have a problem with.


SYG implies to me when under attack only. Initially, Zimmerman wasn't being attacked, wasn't threatened with an attack. He pursued Martin. Who is to say Martin wasn't standing his ground as best he could? I believe he was. Neither male was defending a residence or a vehicle or any other personal property. Any history Martin may have had for any kind of illegal activities should not suggest he was up to no good that particular evening as he had nothing on his person to suggest such that I've read.


It seems to me, Martin, had just as much right to stand his ground, actually even more so than Zimmerman as he, Martin, was the one being pursued for unknown reasons.

If Zimmerman could determine that Martin was black, could describe what he was wearing, then it is likely than Martin could tell Zimmerman was on his cell phone talking to unknown persons. For all we know, Martin may have thought there might be a second person in cahoots with Zimmerman.

Martin had every right to ask why Zimmerman was following him. Did Zimmerman stop, and announce to Martin he was on a neighborhood watch team when Martin asked why he was following him? No. He should have. In fact, it is conversation that could have made both man and teen more comfortable, and averted a teenager losing his life, but even so, it could well have depended on the teen's attitude towards being confronted by an unknown adult.

I listened to the tape. I heard the racial slur, the curse words, and it appears to me, Zimmerman had a preconceived notion about Martin from the get-go. Zimmerman was, IMO, a cop wanna be, looking for a showdown. He got it, and I, too, think he needs to be arrested.

I am a white, female gun owner. It's my belief that no one who has any kind of record for violence should be allowed to participate in any neighborhood watch program of any kind nor should such a person be allowed a CCL.

Error #1. We have a situation in which the elder Zimmerman held some minor authority in the neighborhood, and shouldn't have by virtue of his own background.

Error #2. Zimmerman was armed, and shouldn't have been. He held a CCL, and shouldn't have. He also shouldn't have been packing while participating in a neighborhood watch program as that made him a danger to any other watch participants in the dark, if any that night.

Error #3. Zimmerman appears to have been working alone that night. A team member might have brought some much needed cool-headed thinking to the situation, and Martin's life may have been spared. This is why watches should be carried out by at least two people working together.

Error #4. Zimmerman avoided conversation with Martin which may have resolved the issue in short order. This left both Zimmerman and Martin to assume a me vs him attitude. It was Zimmerman's place to clarify what he was doing since he was the one pursuing Martin.

As much as I wish this was an open/shut case it isn't. I think at least negligent homicide charges are in order.

What I can't understand is why Martin, being followed would have pulled his hoodie up over his head. That would make it harder for him to watch his own back and see what Zimmerman was up to, and it certainly didn't offer Martin any protection.

Only one thought comes to my mind, and that's that while Martin's activities that night may have been purely innocent, he may also have been the one doing the robberies in the neighborhood, and didn't want to be identified or have his face match any sketches that may have already been done of a robbery suspect or suspects.

The truth is Zimmerman was not behaving in a responsible manner. If he could have put himself in Martin's shoes, Martin might still be alive.

GZ was on his way to the store. NWP is observe only program. They have been told not to patrol the area it's LE's job. They were to observe and call it in only.

It was raining that night and pulling your hood up would indicate he was getting his head wet and wanted to stay warm and dry. It was 60 out and damp which is cold unless you are from the north. I doubt if TM even thought about the hood as when it's raining it is a normal reaction that an innocent person would not think twice about doing. jmo
 
Inflection, punctuation and/or spacing can change the meaning drastically. Just sayin'...


485368_405063019523157_205344452828349_1469099_478178142_n.jpg

:what:
 
Just curious how you would categorize this: my daughter and I are are walking downtown and some guy confronts us with a knife and demands money. If I manage to get to my gun and shoot him and he dies, is that negligence? Manslaughter? What would you suggest I do in that situation? Should I be able to carry a gun to defend myself and my family? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand how you view defending oneself regarding "killing of another person through culpable negligence, whether you intended to kill them or not." If I was a law abiding citizen and did nothing wrong should I be able to defend myself without being tagged with a record for doing so? Should I have to wipe out my savings and possibly lose my job because of the time I would lose from work trying to defend myself? Again, I'm just trying to understand other points of view on self defense.

Yes! What if your teen was being chased through the dark by a man with a gun? What if your teen didn't want the gunman to find out where he lived or that he and his brother were home alone? What if your teen ran out of room to run and felt that engaging this madman was his best chance at survival?
 
This department has 140 officers....are you sure you are not being bias? We go back to a comspiracy, and they never hold up......It only takes one cop to be honest, I have to believe if I were a betting woman that there would one that would tell the truth!

One has already started telling the truth. That's how we know a narcotics detective questioned Zimmerman instead of letting him tell the story. :twocents::moo:
 
GZ said on the 911 tape "he's running" it seemed to me that GZ might have possibly been out of breath or it was the wind. I don't think GZ ran after TM, caught up to him and then shot him.
 
Just wondering... Do we not believe his residence is in the community? If it is, what intrinsic difference does it make whether he was renting or owned it?

I mentioned earlier that I didn't think he knew the names of the streets in the gated community because he lived elsewhere (said he lived in a home on 911 call). Doesn't really matter except exiting his truck to get the street number and name would make more sense.

Links provided show he lived in the community at least in 2009.
 
The 16-year-old girl, who was not identified, said in a phone call recorded by ABC News this morning that as Trayvon was walking he told her "some man was watching him" so he pulled his hoodie over his head.
She told attorneys she then heard the 17-year-old ask "What are you following me for?"
Then a man, presumably Zimmerman, replied: "What are you doing around here?"
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...ils-20120320_1_shooting-death-gated-attorneys
 
He was never arrested.

Arrested would be book him, read him his rights and set bail, until a trial. GZ was never arrested, he was let go.

JMHO

He was handcuffed, arrested and then driven to the police station for questioning, after that he was let go.
 
I dare anyone to go step into one of those "White Power" forums and tell me that the word "c***" is not widely used? Wow! I even went back as far as Kim Kardashian and Reggie Bush dating the first time. I seached for the keyword "c***." They aren't just racist against black people though? It's pretty wide spread.

I have been visiting Black forums too and they are also use nasty slurs against White, Hispanic, and Asian.

I think I'm going to try and find some Hispanic and Asian forums sometime this week. I'm sure it will be the same thing?

There are racists in every race and it sucks!

Only if you are looking for it! I am in an inter-racial marriage, with mixed children and grandchildren...some you would not believe they have a drop of white blood! My husband is retired LE.....he (not I) never allow his kids to wear hoodies or beanies, or sag their paints! We are all judged by the company we keep, or the way we dress! It's not being racist, its call prima facie....at first appearace! Or as my husband always said, if it looks like a duck, walks like duck it must be a duck!
 
No. GZ was screaming for help, and had anyone showed up to help, it's unlikely Trayvon would have been shot. If people started flooding out into the courtyard, GZ wouldn't have shot him.

I do know this is open to interpretation, and others can have different "takes" on this, but that's my "take". Had there been any back up for GZ he wouldn't have had to use his gun. IMHO of course.

The lack of emotion from GZ in the call to the police and the response to the female witnesses don't match the sound of the cry for help. The voice sounded like a young person in true terror.
 
Just wondering... Do we not believe his residence is in the community? If it is, what intrinsic difference does it make whether he was renting or owned it?

No, my post is not to indicate what "we" or anyone believes in relation to whether GZ was a member of the community or resided in it.

It matters not one whit to me whether GZ rents or owns. I simply saw it being debated as to renting owning, whose name his or wife's, and having seen certain information regarding that subject linked in day one of following this story, thought I would give those who were interested (again, I am not) some breadcrumbs to follow while exploring that avenue.

To me renting or owning is not relevant. However, I also don't feel a need to argue others out of following that line of inquiry if it floats their boats.
 
He was never arrested.

Arrested would be book him, read him his rights and set bail, until a trial. GZ was never arrested, he was let go.

JMHO

He was cuffed and taken to the police station. He was arrested and released. He was not charged. He was not booked.

At least that is how I understand it.
 
This post put it all in perspective for me.

George Zimmerman was a resident in this gated community, Trayvon wasn't.
George Zimmerman has an investment in the community.

George Zimmerman had every right (if not more)to be walking on the same street in HIS gated community as Trayvon Martin.

Trayvon Martin had no right to attack George Zimmerman because he got out of his truck or walked on the same street as TM.

In fact, why should a citizen have to stay in his #!#!#!# car in order to not be attacked, and what does one call someone who attacks another for daring to get out of his car and walk on the same street ?

I agree that this case is loaded with media hounds, but disagree that Joe Oliver is one of them. I don't think he should shut up or go home just because he's defending GZ.

Glad I could help.
Obviously I disagree. If a person is in their car and calls for police service, it is not a prudent choice on their part to get out of their car, particularly to pursue someone they are suspicious of enough to call in for police service.

I don't think Joe Oliver's problem is defending GZ. I think his problem is he doesn't have any credibility.

George Zimmerman did not own the entire gated community. It was not HIS. Trayvon Martin was a guest of someone in the gated community. I assume it's okay if George Zimmerman had guests.
IMO JMO all that
 
The lack of emotion from GZ in the call to the police and the response to the female witnesses don't match the sound of the cry for help. The voice sounded like a young person in true terror.

it's hard to tell, I've only listened to that call once.
 
As I understand it GZ was taken into custody, questioned and released but never arrested or charged. Taken into custody during questioning is not the same thing as arrest IMO.
 
No, my post is not to indicate what "we" or anyone believes in relation to whether GZ was a member of the community or resided in it.

It matters not one whit to me whether GZ rents or owns. I simply saw it being debated as to renting owning, whose name his or wife's, and having seen certain information regarding that subject linked in day one of following this story, thought I would give those who were interested (again, I am not) some breadcrumbs to follow while exploring that avenue.

To me renting or owning is not relevant. However, I also don't feel a need to argue others out of following that line of inquiry if it floats their boats.
I surely didn't mean to agitate you. I was just asking if there was some relevance that I missed, or if it was just curiosity.
 
Trayvon Inc: Fla teen's case turns into brand


By CURT ANDERSON, Associated Press – 26 minutes ago

MIAMI (AP) — From the T-shirt and hoodie sales to trademarking slogans like "Justice for Trayvon" to the pass-the-hat rallies that bring in thousands, the case of an unarmed black teenager killed by a neighborhood watch volunteer is quickly turning into an Internet-fueled brand.
Websites are hawking key chains bearing Trayvon Martin's likeness. His parents have bought two trademarks, saying they hope to raise money to help other families struck by tragedy. Trayvon clothes, bumper stickers, buttons and posters are up for grabs on eBay.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...Zp-DGA?docId=28d322f8e01449f2a7f1e022dca7f5dd

YES early on I said it is more than a case it is a money machine.
With everything including interview, magazine, and tabloid WAIT soon there will be a Law & Order show and then a movie.

I will buy none of it, I refuse to support any kind of hoopla that represents injustice of anyone.
The Police job was shotty at best.
GZ is as much a victim ad TM was. And when Obama comes out to say something about most cases that are not just, then I will buy it. This was none other IMO then an opportunity to scream RACIST.
 
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