2011.06.22 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-five)

[Marina2]

Her toxicology test would have findings of that nature on them, hair and bone marrow ,fingernails, toenails. I think.

I dont know I am not an ME. I just wanted to know why one method was used for concluding homicide then not used for concluding COD. Since the factors she used in concluding are the very things that she suspects are the cause of death I dont understand it unless there is a procol allowed for speculating murder and not allowed for COD.

It could be compared to a very sick person presenting at the emergency room. This person can have all the symptoms of someone very near death. Now, the doctor can conclude that there is something very wrong with this person from the symptoms he presents with. He can even make a preliminary diagnosis and write it all in the medical record. But, until the person is examined and/or diagnostic tests are run he cannot say for sure what is causing this person's illness. The only thing he's sure of is that somethings very wrong. It's perfectly acceptable and legal for him to conclude that something's wrong but to make a definitive diagnosis he has to be sure with an exam.

The ME knows something is wrong with the way Caylee died. It doesn't look like suicide, an accident, or natural causes due to the circumstances. All the "symptoms" point to homicide so that's what she ruled. But, just like the doctor with the patient presenting with something very wrong, she can't make a certain diagnosis without examining her body. With only skeletal remains, she was unable to do what a doctor would do to diagnose illness... examine her body and run tests. So, it has to be that the cause of death is undetermined.

 

[texaslb218]

I don't know if anyone posted this yet,but Tracy Conroy gave Diane Diamond an interview for The Daily Beast.I can't seem to post the link though..maybe someone else can.

Member search for Oakley. It's post #133. Maybe this thread. I'll go look. Great read.

 

[Bobbarita]

Vinnie on IS saying the photos had such a big impact on him. Worth a thousand worths...No staging involved. Remains with the duct tape say it all...

 

[Talina]

Welcome!
You know what I've found in life...those that SAY they don't like to judge are usually the ones who JUDGE EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY! From my experience they have very strong opinions.
Just my 2 cents

:floorlaugh: That sounds just like my grandmother (God rest her soul). She would always give the outward impression that she was nonjudgmental but she was the first to know all the neighborhood and family gossip and wanted to know (in small gatherings so she didn't give herself away) who knew this about that and she always had an opinion. You could tell she was judging the person by her body language and expressions. We all just always got a good chuckle out of it.

"well it's not for me to judge someone else, but ....." Can't even begin to remember how many times I heard that from her.

 

[Cat99]

This will be my new home. JQ wasn't the right place for me.

This should help you figure it out. LOL

:deadhorse:

LOL - got it - so true

 

[NSS]

From what I remember about Dr. G's testimony :

Manner of Death : HOMICIDE

Cause of Death : Undetermined


Because Caylee's remains were skeletonized, she was unable to determine the "Cause of Death" ...

But ... she was able to rule the "Manner of Death" as a "Homicide" because of the DUCT TAPE on the mouth and nose, wrapped in two trash bags and a laundry bag, and thrown into the woods like "trash".


:cow: It is my opinion that the FACT that this was a HOMICIDE needs to be brought out more ... ESPECIALLY for the JURY !


I hope I got this right ... PLEASE correct me if I am wrong. TIA !

BBM ---- I just had a lightbulb moment resulting from the bolded portion.


Had Caylee died as a result of an accident this would not be the method of disposal.

GA adored Caylee, she would have been buried wrapped in a blankie, hugging her favorite toy, and other such things that we respect our dead with.

Forget the forensics, the MANNER of disposal suggests murder.

Shoot, I am slow.:waitasec:

 

[RR0004]

The gatorade bottle and syringe will be very interesting. Was it brought into evidence? I know Baez showed a picture.

I have 2 theories for the testosterone IF it relates to the case.

1) Testosterone enhances sexual drive (guess who laid in bed the night of the 16th. and all day on the 17th with her bf?)

2) Tony L wanted boys. Far fetched theory BUT it would not surprise me one bit if Casey was injecting Caylee with testosterone.


OR it could be unrelated to this case.

Well, according to Baez...he labeled the findings insignificant. Start around the .44 mark.

http://www.wftv.com/video/21599176/...l=orlc_8pm&ts=T&tmi=orlc_8pm_1_07000111122009

 

[texaslb218]

Oh I need to go read this:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/06/22/casey-s-rommate-tells-all.html

ETA: She told Trace twice that the media was saying Lee was Caylee's father, as if gauging Tracy's "reaction as a trial balloon." She enjoyed saying outrageous things, per Tracy. Interesting article, a lot we've already heard.

Here it is. Messy to make a new post, but I'm post-challenged.

 

[Tipstaff]

I was just watching a replay of JB's opening statement. He says in his OS: Early morning hours, the exact time is not known. It could have been early afternoon, early morning. Actually it was the early morning hours, GA approached Casey and started yelling at her: "Where's Caylee, where's Caylee? They began to search the house, they couldn't find her. They searched in the bedrooms...."

Then he has a "mock up" of the Anthony house for the jurors. He uses a pointer to indicate where GA and ICA look for Caylee outside when they discover she's missing. Points to the back yard where the sliding doors are, then says ICA went to the left of the house (even tough he is pointing to the right side of the house where we know there is a shed and a dead end) and GA goes toward the pool. Now why would ICA run to the side of the house where there is not a gate? Wouldn't she run to the side to see if the gate was open? Also, it's not a huge yard- so ICA would have had to not notice Caylee in the pool, run to the side yard, run back and now GA is already holding Caylee in his arms??? In what, like 10 seconds? Ridiculous!

So glad to know that once we are over the shock and awe of JB's 'story' during opening statements, the critical thinkers here will blow JB/ICA's fictional representation apart bit by bit. Then the State gets their shot in the rebuttal portion of the trial.

 

[texaslb218]

I don't know if anyone posted this yet,but Tracy Conroy gave Diane Diamond an interview for The Daily Beast.I can't seem to post the link though..maybe someone else can.

Check my post above for link.

 

[SyraKelly]

Here it is. Messy to make a new post, but I'm post-challenged.

me to,but what a great read!

 

[~n/t~]

sure would love to read the sidebar transcript on this one! interesting things going on
Mason brings Slabaugh into the sidebar and Slabaugh stands between Mason and Baez and Mason talks to Slabaugh, or about Slabaugh - grabbing his arm.

Slabaugh goes to get a stack of papers and Mason shows them to the Judge

Ashton throws back his head and laughs heartily

LDBurdick walks in front of defense table and the Inmate makes an exaggerated scrunched up face

http://www.wftv.com/video/28320322/index.html
part 3

Judge - defendant present
(14:11) Mason says something - sidebar is called

(15:21) Slabaugh in sidebar - Mason talking about him

View attachment 16891

View attachment 16892

View attachment 16893

(16:13) Slabaugh goes to get papers and brings back to sidebar - Mason shows Judge

(17:19) Ashton throws head back and laughs

as LDBurdick left the sidebar and walked back to her chair, the Inmate made an exagerrated scrunched up face over what she read on the sidebar real time monitor

Would love to have been a fly on the wall. It could be something as childish as Casey & Baez wanting more people from their team up there than the prosecution side. Who knows.

 

[~n/t~]

Well, according to Baez...he labeled the findings insignificant. Start around the .44 mark.

http://www.wftv.com/video/21599176/...l=orlc_8pm&ts=T&tmi=orlc_8pm_1_07000111122009

OK thank you. I have no sound at work so was trying to follow along with what was being posted. I guess he realized he better not go there. What a doofus.:loser:

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

Something brought up by a FB'er on HLN asking wouldn't you want your attorney to try every trick in the book? HLN's VP said something about an attorney serving the best interest of his client.
And it hit me once again!
How was it ever in her best interest to not tell authorities AT ANY TIME duruing these 3 years that it was an accident.
And JB stood in front in the media and declared early on that it was not in his client's best interest to tell authorities what she knew.

Accident my Aunt Fanny.

I am absolutely no fan of JB, but I would be shocked if JB got the drowning story from ICA much earlier than early this year if not later. IMHO this is TOTALLY a story ICA gave ... just the drowning and George, not the RK part ... and while I may question why ICA didn't come out with it sooner rather than spending 3 years in jail, I really don't think ICA gave it to JB all that long ago. When JB made that statement about his client's best interests I think ICA was telling a different story, one in which she was "protecting" her family. Remember when Cindy asked her that and ICA got all cryptic like that was exactly what she was doing?

If the time comes when someone asks JB why he let his client sit in jail or 3 years or why he allowed so many people to continue to search when he knew Caylee was already dead, he will say he didn't know then, he will say poor ICA was too ashamed and scared to tell him the real story until just before trial or some such nonsense. This will also cover his arse for his shoddy defense.

 

[RR0004]

sure would love to read the sidebar transcript on this one! interesting things going on
Mason brings Slabaugh into the sidebar and Slabaugh stands between Mason and Baez and Mason talks to Slabaugh, or about Slabaugh - grabbing his arm.

Slabaugh goes to get a stack of papers and Mason shows them to the Judge

Ashton throws back his head and laughs heartily

LDBurdick walks in front of defense table and the Inmate makes an exaggerated scrunched up face

http://www.wftv.com/video/28320322/index.html
part 3

Judge - defendant present
(14:11) Mason says something - sidebar is called

(15:21) Slabaugh in sidebar - Mason talking about him

View attachment 16891

View attachment 16892

View attachment 16893

(16:13) Slabaugh goes to get papers and brings back to sidebar - Mason shows Judge

(17:19) Ashton throws head back and laughs

as LDBurdick left the sidebar and walked back to her chair, the Inmate made an exagerrated scrunched up face over what she read on the sidebar real time monitor

Someone mentioned (last night?) a notice of appearance...could this guy be it?

 

[Cat99]

I am absolutely no fan of JB, but I would be shocked if JB got the drowning story much earlier than early this year if not later. IMHO this is TOTALLY a story ICA gave ... just the drowning and George, not the RK part ... and while I may question why ICA didn't come out with it sooner rather than spending 3 years in jail, I really don't think ICA gave it to JB all that long ago. When JB made that statement about his client's best interests I think ICA was telling a different story, one in which she was "protecting" her family. Remember when Cindy asked her that and ICA got all cryptic like that was exactly what she was doing?

If the time comes when someone asks JB why he let his client sit in jail or 3 years or why he allowed so many people to continue to search when he knew Caylee was already dead, he didn't know then, he will say poor ICA was too ashamed and scared to tell him the real story until just before trial or some such nonsense. This will also cover his arse for his shoddy defense.

Good thoughts there. That makes sense because I have been wondering about this.

And did'nt she also say something like "don't worry I didn't say anything", or something similar?

JMO

 

[Insomnia Momma]

Awesome YouTube - ‪Jose Baez on Casey Anthony case‬‏

maybe this will be played at JB's disbarment hearing

I just watched this whole thing (again, it's been a while since July 23 2008!)

I forgot just how much backpeddling JB did when Nancy tried to get him to talk to the police with ICA. I remember that this was the interview that beyond a reasonablle doubt sealed the deal for me that ICA murdered Caylee. When it's only a week from the time that Casey was arrested and he was talking about her defense....

Thanks for reminding me!

OT: I liked Nancy's hair longer :crazy:

 

[Macushla]

My point being is that the she could not confirm Homicide without using the same opinions that she would have to use to conclude a cause of death.

She may have made the right determination but it is all still in her method of operation so why did she decided to use the method for deciding homicide and then stop short on the COD?

I have not finished reading the thread and my apologies if someone else has already responded to this post. Dr. Garavaglia could not determine the cause of death because of the condition of Caylee's body. there were no obvious signs of trauma on any bones, aside from that, though there was nothing left at all, that would help in determining how she died.


Hypothetical: A person dies of a gunshot wound. That is the cause of death. That is a medical fact. It is right there in front of the ME. Next the Medical Examiner has to look at a number of different things when determining the manner of death in regards to this gunshot wound. It might be an accident, a suicide or a homicide.

A ME will read the reports of the their investigator, the police reports, witness statements, statements from family members, etc. He/she will use every scrap of information that is given to him/her when making a decision as to the manner of death.

In this case, Dr. Garavaglia did not need to know the cause of death to determine that death was a homicide. Her decision to call it a homicide was based on all the surrounding information that she was given and her years of experience. It is her expert opinion.

 

[gxm]

BBM ---- I just had a lightbulb moment resulting from the bolded portion.


Had Caylee died as a result of an accident this would not be the method of disposal.

GA adored Caylee, she would have been buried wrapped in a blankie, hugging her favorite toy, and other such things that we respect our dead with.

Forget the forensics, the MANNER of disposal suggests murder.

Shoot, I am slow.:waitasec:

I've thought this many times. Caylee would never have been discarded by GA. She would have been given as close to a proper burial as he could manage. The way she was tossed away like trash, IMO, completely corresponds to ICA's attitude and behavior toward Caylee, particularly in the 31 days that followed her death.

 

[Meagain]

does anyone know off-hand why the trial ended so darned early today?