Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #41

[they'll get you]

Can we have some links please?

Where is all this coming from

I must be dim as I can’t find where she mentions bruises

You are not dim TBL! There’s nothing about bruises.

We need links. LINKS. LINKS.

 

[Green beans]

I don’t think speculating ideas surrounding Williams mums or dads is relevant, here. IMO Williams past is heartbreaking from all angles for all of them. It’s been said so many times both sets of parents are totally cleared.

FWIW I don’t see that a behavioural psychologist is a big deal for a child. Quite the opposite. When anyone experiences difficulties in life, it’s healthy to seek support from a professionally trained psychologist. The earlier, the better. Coping skills are learnt and emotions processed.
My hope is williams generation of peers will see psychology as normal as a gp visit.

 

[sosocurious]

I don’t think speculating ideas surrounding Williams mums or dads is relevant, here. IMO Williams past is heartbreaking from all angles for all of them. It’s been said so many times both sets of partners are totally cleared.

FWIW I don’t see that a behavioural psychologist is a big deal for a child. Quite the opposite. When anyone experiences difficulties in life, it’s healthy to seek support from a professionally trained psychologist. The earlier, the better. Coping skills are learnt and emotions processed.
My hope is williams generation of peers will see psychology as normal as a gp visit.

Yes and learning and/or behavioural difficulties faced by children are so often identified in the day care or kindergarten setting in consultation with family/carers. Early intervention as you say.


But they are still desperate to know what happened to the boisterous little boy who went missing and never returned and who was sometimes described as a “handful”.

She also revealed she had seen documents during the course of the inquest that said William was a rowdy kid who had been difficult to control.

“I’ve seen some documents that say he was … difficult,” she said.

BBM - William was apparently a handful at day care.Source:Supplied


William’s foster mother said in her statement that William was being assessed by a female community service worker “currently … to see if there are any behavioural issues”.

William Tyrrell’s birth family felt under suspicion for five years

 

[deugirtni]

Seems the neighbours also heard and saw the vehicle doing the 'u-turn', but believed it to be the postman?

Multiple neighbours on Tuesday said they saw the "hysterical" man running around, screaming the child's name.

"I'm sure if William had been around, he would have come to him," neighbour Sharelle Crabb told the inquest.

Her husband, Peter Crabb, said he "looked in places where a little boy might hide" including driving to a nearby swimming pool but there was "nothing, absolutely nothing".

"They (the foster parents) were shouting and screaming off their heads for William," Mr Crabb said, noting numerous others were "coming out of the woodwork" to help.

His wife added, "They both looked extremely distressed."

The couple both heard a car on Benaroon Drive that Friday before they were told about the missing boy, which they say did a U-turn before it drove off but sounded exactly like the postman.

Desperate search for William captured

 

[deugirtni]

William Tyrrell’s mother told police she was “a bit worried” about him during their final face-to-face meeting a few weeks before he disappeared.

Documents presented to the inquest and obtained by news.com.au detail the birth mother’s interview with officers, in which she claimed the three-year-old had a black eye and was skinny the last time she saw him, during a supervised visit at Macquarie Centre on August 21, 2014.

In a witness statement dated 14 September 2014 — two days after he vanished from a Kendall home on the NSW mid-north coast — William’s mother said a Salvation Army worker who supervised her visits with the boy called her to confirm their meeting and told her he had a black eye.

According to her statement, he said the incident occurred when the boy was “climbing up on” his foster father and “lost his balance”.

“When I saw William at the Macquarie Centre I could still see a faint bruise near his eye,” his mother said.

William Tyrrell: Biological mother was ‘worried’ before son vanished

 

[sosocurious]

William Tyrrell’s mother told police she was “a bit worried” about him during their final face-to-face meeting a few weeks before he disappeared.

Documents presented to the inquest and obtained by news.com.au detail the birth mother’s interview with officers, in which she claimed the three-year-old had a black eye and was skinny the last time she saw him, during a supervised visit at Macquarie Centre on August 21, 2014.

In a witness statement dated 14 September 2014 — two days after he vanished from a Kendall home on the NSW mid-north coast — William’s mother said a Salvation Army worker who supervised her visits with the boy called her to confirm their meeting and told her he had a black eye.

According to her statement, he said the incident occurred when the boy was “climbing up on” his foster father and “lost his balance”.

“When I saw William at the Macquarie Centre I could still see a faint bruise near his eye,” his mother said.

William Tyrrell: Biological mother was ‘worried’ before son vanished

Same journo about 2 weeks apart.

from your link -
According to her statement, he said the incident occurred when the boy was “climbing up on” his foster father and “lost his balance”.

William’s birth mother also told police the last time she saw William he had a black eye, which a Salvation Army worker said happened after he climbed on the foster mother, lost his balance and fell.

His birth mother says in her statement to police that the black eye was still visible during the final visit, 22 days before William vanished.

William Tyrrell’s birth family felt under suspicion for five years

 

[deugirtni]

I've not speculated about innocent persons, I have outlined contradicting statements from the BM and the case worker. He says the BP's were never informed of adoption care plans prior to WT's disappearance, the BM said she was informed prior to WT's disappearance.

If the case worker for Salvation Army Young Hope was a suspect, he certainly wasn't cross examined at all.

And the photos he took was for Williams story book!

And it was actual the FACS worker who said that adoption was not known to Williams bio family at the time of his disappearance.

In evidence when the bM was asked " In those years in care were you informed about long term care?"

Her reply was " Dunno"

In evidence the BM stated that she knew about plans for adoption before WT went missing. She read them in a file.

I'm thinking the 'language' used may have been inadequate and confusing... it seems obvious that both Bio Parents knew WT was intended to be in care 'long-term', ie until age 18.. going by BD's remark something like, 'the minister was to keep him safe until age 18, and that didn't happen', and BM's contradicting comments about her awareness of adoption plans vs longterm plans.. they (Bios) may have been aware that WT was in it for the long-term, but not aware that official adoption proceedings were in the works (which would then presumably end any visitation rights they may have been looking forward to continuing and expanding on). jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

Same journo about 2 weeks apart.

from your link -
According to her statement, he said the incident occurred when the boy was “climbing up on” his foster father and “lost his balance”.

William’s birth mother also told police the last time she saw William he had a black eye, which a Salvation Army worker said happened after he climbed on the foster mother, lost his balance and fell.

His birth mother says in her statement to police that the black eye was still visible during the final visit, 22 days before William vanished.

William Tyrrell’s birth family felt under suspicion for five years

Yes, seems Candace doesn't seem to proofread too meticulously, but in any case, it is in the documentation from BM's initial police statement and given as evidence at the Inquest, that BM was advised by the workers of the black eye, and then she saw there were still traces of that at their last visit on August 21, 2014.

 

[SouthAussie]

Seems the neighbours also heard and saw the vehicle doing the 'u-turn', but believed it to be the postman?

Multiple neighbours on Tuesday said they saw the "hysterical" man running around, screaming the child's name.

"I'm sure if William had been around, he would have come to him," neighbour Sharelle Crabb told the inquest.

Her husband, Peter Crabb, said he "looked in places where a little boy might hide" including driving to a nearby swimming pool but there was "nothing, absolutely nothing".

"They (the foster parents) were shouting and screaming off their heads for William," Mr Crabb said, noting numerous others were "coming out of the woodwork" to help.

His wife added, "They both looked extremely distressed."

The couple both heard a car on Benaroon Drive that Friday before they were told about the missing boy, which they say did a U-turn before it drove off but sounded exactly like the postman.

Desperate search for William captured

That is interesting. I hadn't read that before.
I looked to see what vehicle a rural postie may use. (The ones in the towns and cities use provided scooters or bicycles.)
It seems that a rural postie is typically a contracted person who uses their own vehicle.


"There are over 3000 Mail Contractors operating about 5,500 mail contracts across Australia. Mail Contractors form a significant part of Australia Post’s delivery network.

There are many different types of mail contract. Some examples include:
RSD (roadside delivery) or rural mail contracts ......

Some Mail & Parcel Contractors have employees or subcontractors. Many operate on their own.
Mail Contractors own or lease their own vehicles. Some are based in Australia Post owned and operated facilities, while other work from Licensed Post Offices.

The proposed contractor has to prove to Australia Post’s satisfaction that they are capable of performing the contract itself as well as passing a security check.
Contracts may be for a period of up to five years."
Want to be a mail contractor? | POAAL: The Post Office Agents Association Limited

 

[Blues Clues]

As a Mum to a boy with a behavioural diagnosis, thinking back to his early childhood, it was the preschool who brought it to our attention and then his kindergarten teacher.

His behavioural disorder did not cause him to 'act out'.

He was more challenging to parent than our other children but I would not say he misbehaved anymore than any other young child. He was just very impulsive and hella busy.

If, big if, William had the same behavioural disorder I can imagine him in an instant running to the roadside to see if MFC was coming up the street.

 

[SouthAussie]

As a Mum to a boy with a behavioural diagnosis, thinking back to his early childhood, it was the preschool who brought it to our attention and then his kindergarten teacher.

His behavioural disorder did not cause him to 'act out'.

He was more challenging to parent than our other children but I would not say he misbehaved anymore than any other young child. He was just very impulsive and hella busy.

If, big if, William had the same behavioural disorder I can imagine him in an instant running to the roadside to see if MFC was coming up the street.

All children are tested with initial diagnosis of anything that may be considered a little outside of the "norm" in kindergarten (pre-school), then again in the first year of primary school (called Reception - the year before 1st grade - here in SA).

In kindy, it was picked up that my daughter was less coordinated than was typical (a bit like her mum, actually ). She did lots of bouncy ball exercises with a movement therapist, and that was it. She went on to succeed in several sports (as did her mum), as she grew into her hands and feet.

Other children were identified with slight vision issues, or less than perfect hearing. Lots of things are discovered at the early ages of 3/4/5 years old.

 

[sleepinoz]

Papertrail was saying the infamous photo of William on Fg deck showed bruising. I don’t see that .

Because there isn't any

 

[they'll get you]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Toddlers and the Terrible Twos

The terrible twos is a normal stage in a child's development in which a toddler can regularly bounce between reliance on adults and a newly burgeoning desire for independence. It is a stage that most toddlers will go through in varying degrees. At one moment, the child may cling to you desperately and, in the next, run away from you in a screaming rage.

Helpful Tips to Tame the Terrible Twos

 

[frogwell]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

"Police have not drawn the positive conclusion that a known relative or associate was not involved in William's disappearance," Mr Craddock said.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...he-vanished-inquest-told-20190324-p51739.html

 

[purpleandgreen]

Well it wouldn’t be the first time that a case worker has worked with children for all the wrong reasons. I need to do a bit more research, but I believe that the agency that was looking after William has since closed. A senior manager was investigated for paedophilia I understand.

Do you have a link for that, please?

 

[sosocurious]

"Police have not drawn the positive conclusion that a known relative or associate was not involved in William's disappearance," Mr Craddock said.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...he-vanished-inquest-told-20190324-p51739.html

Yes that is interesting. It was the known relative that stood out to me.

 

[Blues Clues]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

As no-one knows if he had behavioural problems or whether he would have gone on to have a diagnosed behavioural disorder it's difficult to discuss as the causes for each are varied and different.

There are studies and articles available on the higher proportion of children with behavioural disorders in foster care. Whether it is relevant to William or not may never be known.

Children in foster care three times more likely to have ADHD diagnosis

 

[SouthAussie]

RSBM .... To look at some random person coming out of the Kendall area to come and snatch him away is very difficult to accept with the surrounding situation. IMO

Personally, I am not having difficulty with this being a random, opportunistic event.

There are way too many random and opportunistic events that occur ... Maddy McCann being one of them, the Beaumont children being another, Cheryl Grimmer being another ... many more stranger-abductions documented in 2002 in the US.

Who Would Abduct a Child? Previous Cases Offer Clues

It has been said that William's disappearance is a once in a decade crime, here in Australia.

 

[purpleandgreen]

The only behavioural specialists/psychologists/experts that I have read about are the ones assisting Strike Force Rosann ....


Detective Inspector Gary Jubelin, who’s heading the investigation, said the inclusion of a behavioural specialist on the strike force had been invaluable.
“In cases like these we need to get into the headspace of the person who took William, why they did it, what makes them tick,” he said.
William Tyrrell: suspected kidnapper was 'visiting, residing or working locally'

Forensic psychologist Dr Yule said police were working on a reasonably narrow abduction scenario.
"There may be a misconception that there is a lot that we don't know about this case. I've visited the crime scene multiple times and there is a lot of information that that location tells us," Dr Yule said.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...illiam-tyrrells-abductor-20150911-gjkqyz.html

Experts from the Behavioural Science Team have been assessing the behaviour and personality characteristics of all suspects to pinpoint anyone capable of abducting William.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

Exactly , SA. I suspect facebook or other social media posts are being confused with MSM, and we know that the former aren't permitted here due to TOS, thankfully, as anyone can make up anything and post it there

 

[purpleandgreen]

I don’t see what you’re implying here. I can’t see any bruising at all

Exactly. IMO.