Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #2 *killer identified*

[deugirtni]

Just putting this in one spot, to be edited later.
HH worked at Eastern Independent Telecom (with Christine's father).
CH divorced HH and married JH.
In her obit, it is mentioned she worked at or with Cygnal, IBM, ISM, Norstan, and Datacrown/Crowntek (now IBM).
A quick Google shows all of these seem to have offices in that GTA area, so for a timeline purpose I think the LE will be able to quickly nail down his places of residence.
It had been said by CJ's dad that some wiring installation work he had done at a police station with CH. If it is telecommunications stuff, I shudder to think of the free roam he was given in the city.

Another point was made that CH and HH had declared bankruptcy three times prior to divorce. When people wonder what CH was doing at the time of the murder, the answer might simply be "nothing".

And we wonder why HH marriage to CH ended.. along with a drunk driving conviction that rendered him useless (for one year without his drivers licence) for helping out with errands, possibly traveling to work, presumably a huge increase in car insurance premiums, etc. But in seriousness, where were the 3 bankruptcies reported?

 

[deugirtni]

It was CJ's dad that said CH helped him with wiring the police station.

I have been scouring facebook, and saw a post on the day the news broke about CH from someone who wrote a condolence onthe obituary wall of JH. She mentioned CH name specifically in the condolence, which leads me to beleive that she knew or worked with him specifically. On facebook, this person said she is "In complete SHOCK" and Sent a virtual hugs to past Norstan peeps....
My guess is at some point, CH was an employee at Norstan. I am now googling the company to find out more info

It was said that JH had worked there. It's not uncommon to name the SO of the deceased in condolences. Jmo

 

[ShaunLindsay]

And we wonder why HH marriage to CH ended.. along with a drunk driving conviction that rendered him useless for helping out with errands, possibly traveling to work, presumably a huge increase in car insurance premiums, etc. But in seriousness, where were the 3 bankruptcies reported?

You question me a lot. It's all in the name, I guess, lol.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1808287299593

Calvin Hoover helped search for the girl he murdered.


Video: wrt CH, " he and his wife declared bankruptcy 3 times since the 90's."

Video, "In 1984 when she was killed in Queensville Ontario, where Hoover too had once lived, his home then was in Toronto."

 

[SweetPineapple]

It was said that JH had worked there. It's not uncommon to name the SO of the deceased in condolences. Jmo

I agree. I didnt know she worked there. I saw she worked at IBM....and sometimes the person or people mentioned in the condolence is the link to the deceased. It was just a thought, but if jh worked there all good

 

[MistyWaters]

More contacticging info - prison or dentist? I can imagine Christine being heard on a telephone call crying in the background because she wanted to go to the dentist too.

BBM

On October 3, 1984, Jessop was dropped off at her home from her school bus as her mother was out visiting her father who was in prison.[2]
Guy Paul Morin - Wikipedia

From the Public Inquiry -
“On the afternoon of October 3, 1984, the school bus returned Christine to her home at about 3:50 p.m. No one was there. Her mother, Janet, had taken Christine’s older brother, Ken, to the dentist in Newmarket.”
https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov...rings/exhibits/OPC/pdf/60_Kaufman_Summary.pdf

 

[copkid]

I found the info! It was in Makins book, (I have the hardcover, copyright 1992). Strange calls are mentioned twice.

On page 42, "Three of Christine's friends mentioned the mysterious calls Christine had been receiving. She told each of them the caller would speak briefly and abruptly hang up...." Kellie (Christine's babysitter) is also quoted on page 42, (just prior to Christine's abduction) as saying, "christine answered the phone and then hung up, looking upset. She just sort of shook her head and said 'strange'."

On page 32, "The sexual assault theory was enhanced by a series of four phone calls that came into the jessop's residence within hours of Christine's disappearance. The caller held a long silence before hanging up."

Does it not seem strange based on the info about these calls that LE did not access/investigate the Jessop's. phone records?

If the phone records had been analyzed LE should have come across the call to HH.
JMO

 

[deugirtni]

More contacticging info - prison or dentist? I can imagine Christine being heard on a telephone call crying in the background because she wanted to go to the dentist too.

BBM

On October 3, 1984, Jessop was dropped off at her home from her school bus as her mother was out visiting her father who was in prison.[2]
Guy Paul Morin - Wikipedia

From the Public Inquiry -
“On the afternoon of October 3, 1984, the school bus returned Christine to her home at about 3:50 p.m. No one was there. Her mother, Janet, had taken Christine’s older brother, Ken, to the dentist in Newmarket.”
https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov...rings/exhibits/OPC/pdf/60_Kaufman_Summary.pdf

Somewhere yesterday I read that JJ and KJ had gone shopping after the jailhouse visit (to buy KJ a watch), and then to the dentist.

 

[musicaljoke]

I remember reading somewhere that back in those days, crime scene rules were lax, common sense was not so common. The police officers on site were smoking and discarding their butts at the scene which contaminated it. They couldn’t use the evidence because they didn’t know if it belonged to the killer or the officers. However, if they actually did keep all the butts, it would be interesting to find out if one belonged to the killer. Although it is probably cost prohibitive to do DNA testing on all of them. They already know who did it, so they probably wouldn’t want to spend more money figuring this out.

I wonder if this was evidence that was just pushed back because it didn't fit the theory that GPM committed the crime. I have a very hard time believing that the investigating officers were that careless, even back in those days.

Sherlock Holmes was written in 1887.

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder if this was evidence that was just pushed back because it didn't fit the theory that GPM committed the crime. I have a very hard time believing that the investigating officers were that careless, even back in those days.

Sherlock Holmes was written in 1887.

If you’re interested in reading the Public Inquiry into why Morin was wrongfully convicted, there’s a section to that topic plus more. The quality of the entire investigation to essentially frame him was utterly despicable IMO.

https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov...rings/exhibits/OPC/pdf/60_Kaufman_Summary.pdf

 

[MistyWaters]

From what I can tell, there never was any factual evidence Christine was abducted from her home. That theory was based on the wrongful accusations that GPM, a neighbour, was the killer.

As all we can do is speculate, so it’s possible after Christine was dropped off by the bus and as nobody was home she left to go to a local playground or wherever kids hung out at that time. On her way she was abducted by CH and it just happened he knew her family. (“Hey want a ride?”) That would make it a crime of opportunity as well, as opposed to Christine being a specifically targeted victim.....my opinion only.

The reason I was thinking about this is because CBC recently corrected the statement about the home abduction to be “unknown”.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/christine-jessop-news-conference-1.5763673
Corrections

• A previous version of this story stated that Christine Jessop was abducted from her home. In fact, that is not known.
  Oct 16, 2020 9:51 AM ET

 

[copkid]

You question me a lot. It's all in the name, I guess, lol.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1808287299593

Calvin Hoover helped search for the girl he murdered.


Video: wrt CH, " he and his wife declared bankruptcy 3 times since the 90's."

Video, "In 1984 when she was killed in Queensville Ontario, where Hoover too had once lived, his home then was in Toronto."

Do we know for certain that CH once lived in Queensville?

Did he ever live in Richmond Hill? Perhaps when the Jessop's lived there?

 

[copkid]

Many of us are wondering if CH could be responsible for other crimes.

According to Makin's book (page 91-92) Christine was found wearing clothing that the family did not recognize....specifically a grey turtleneck.

The blue sweater her grandmother had knitted and that she was apparently wearing at time of disappearance was not at the body site?

Also a watch she was reportedly wearing has never been located?

Buttons found at the scence did not match Christine's blouse?

She was found wearing 2 pair of socks?

Where did this turtle neck come from?
Where did the extra pair of socks come from?
Where did the blue sweater and the watch go?
Trophies perhaps?

Could any of these items be related to another crime?

 

[MistyWaters]

From what I can tell, there never was any factual evidence Christine was abducted from her home. That theory was based on the wrongful accusations that GPM, a neighbour, was the killer.

As all we can do is speculate, so it’s possible after Christine was dropped off by the bus and as nobody was home she left to go to a local playground or wherever kids hung out at that time. On her way she was abducted by CH and it just happened he knew her family. (“Hey want a ride?”) That would make it a crime of opportunity as well, as opposed to Christine being a specifically targeted victim.....my opinion only.

The reason I was thinking about this is because CBC recently corrected the statement about the home abduction to be “unknown”.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/christine-jessop-news-conference-1.5763673
Corrections

• A previous version of this story stated that Christine Jessop was abducted from her home. In fact, that is not known.
  Oct 16, 2020 9:51 AM ET

More about the possible abduction location and quoting my own post.....this report is from June 2018. I really do think it’s far more likely Christine was abducted from somewhere between the store and the park, rather than from her home. JMO


“Classmate Leslie Chipman tells police she was to meet Christine at the Queensville park with their dolls.

Christine walks home on Leslie Street and enters, bringing the mail in with her.

She departs, walking into the corner store at about 3:45 to 3:50 p.m. to buy gum.

Christine was seen by a man named Robert Atkinson in the store holding her recorder.

The police investigation, Mangano believes, mistakenly focused on Christine returning home after buying the gum in the belief that she was actually taken from the vicinity of her home.

However, Mangano wonders, what if she never returned home?

Chipman said she went home, watched a television show with her brother and, just before 4 p.m., got her dolls and went to the park.

That means by about 4 p.m., Chipman has a full view of Leslie Street, up to the crest of the hill where Christine lived, and did not see her friend.

Nor did Chipman find Christine at the park on that windy day shortly after 4 p.m.
Ontario Cold Case: Private investigators still working on 'solvable' Christine Jessop murder

 

[MsBetsy]

I wonder if he left a suicide note when he died. He must have been depressed


What was the nature of the prank call?

In the first thread KJessop stated there were no phone calls made to Christine in the days before the murder, and that this was just a rumor.

 

[MistyWaters]

Do we know for certain that CH once lived in Queensville?

Did he ever live in Richmond Hill? Perhaps when the Jessop's lived there?

If this report is correct, Jessops were neighbours to Hoovers in Queensville, as well as with the Morins.

“At the time, Hoover and his wife were neighbours with the Jessop family and police said Hoover may have worked with the father.”
Christine Jessop's killer helped in search, attended funeral and wake, family says

 

[MsBetsy]

I wonder if this was evidence that was just pushed back because it didn't fit the theory that GPM committed the crime. I have a very hard time believing that the investigating officers were that careless, even back in those days.

Sherlock Holmes was written in 1887.

They apparently were that careless. There was also a lighter and an empty cigarette pack found at the scene. I'm not sure what ended up happening to that.

 

[photographer4]

I agree, unless there’s more to it, speculating the ex-wife might’ve known is extremely unfair. And unreliable spouses who don’t come home immediately after work and then lie about their whereabouts isn’t all that unusual in unhealthy marriages on the road to falling apart. CH obviously wasn’t a perfect husband.

After the divorce there’d be absolutely no reason for the ex to stay silent, if she knew.

JMO

If she knew, she might well have been afraid for her own life, or for the lives of her children or other loved ones! Especially once the details emerged about how the poor child's remains had been found and what had been done to her. If she knew, or suspected at the time, she probably kept her mouth shut as a result of some sort of fear. Or, maybe she was afraid of being viewed as complicit, or being considered to aide and abet? Who knows? We don't know the details of what went on in her household, or how scary he may have really been to those who knew him.

 

[photographer4]

There are also cold case homicides and missing women, ages early 20’s, Toronto/GTA and nearby cottage country, 1980s, 1990s.
Christine Prince, Lisa Maas, Lois Hanna, Deborah Silverman, Margaret McWilliams.
Christine Prince’s body was found in a river near Toronto Zoo, after abduction near Yonge & St Clair, Toronto. Case probably connected to Lisa Maas, missing near Owen Sound, because in both cases, victim I.D. was tossed from a vehicle. Nearby to Maas’s home, same summer, Lois Hanna went missing in Kincardine vicinity. Silverman taken from Yonge & Eglinton.

Deborah Silverman was found about 9miles from where Christine Jessop was found....

 

[photographer4]

I wonder if they still have the cigarette butt(s) found at the site of Christine's body...or at least a good picture. Would be interesting to see if CH smoked and if the brand of cigarettes could be identified as his. I'm not a smoker myself, but all the smokers I know have a specific brand.

Well, I'm not sure if they still have the butts, or why they'd be significant at this point, but the concern with butts at the scene are that officers were also smoking, and I believe some may have also dropped butts near to the body....

The Cigarette Butt
On December 31, 1984, the date Christine’s body was found, a cigarette butt was located in the general area of her remains. It was tagged, bagged and photographed by Sgt Michalowsky. It was an uncontested fact at both trials that M was not a smoker. On December 10, 1985, Ms Bartley of Mr Ruby’s office met with Sgt Michalowsky and John Scott. Upon viewing photographs taken at the body site on December 31, 1984, Ms Bartley learned of the finding of the cigarette butt. Apparently Sgt Michalowsky commented to her something to the effect that “we even find our own officers’ cigarette butts.” On December 27, 1985, a meeting took place involving the Crown attorneys John Scott and Susan MacLean (the 2 prosecutors at the first trial) and officers who had attended at the body site on December 31, 1984. The purpose of the meeting was to determine the involvement of each officer.

According to Const Cameron, during the meeting Scott inquired of Sgt Michalowsky as to the whereabouts of the cigarette butt. Const Robinet also recalled an issue being raised at the meeting about finding the cigarette butt. In his evidence at the second trial in June, 1992, Sgt Michalowsky denied that the cigarette butt had ever been lost or that anyone asked him to find it. The evidence was that at the December 27, 1985 meeting, Scott wanted to know whose cigarette butt it was. Robinet’s recollection, 5 years later, was that Cameron claimed ownership of the cigarette butt at the meeting. However, Robinet subsequently came to question his recollection. Cameron denied claiming the butt as his own at the December 27, 1985 meeting. Following this meeting and prior to the commencement of the first trial on January 7, 1986, Det Fitzpatrick called officers he knew to be smokers who had attended at the body site on December 31, 1984 to inquire whether they had been smoking at the scene and had disposed of a cigarette butt. In a telephone discussion between Det Fitzpatrick and Const Cameron, Cameron recalled he had been smoking at the body site; he had discarded a Craven Menthol cigarette butt upon realizing he was entering the homicide scene........

Canada: Kaufman Inquiry Guy Paul Morin - Background Facts

 

[photographer4]

Many of us are wondering if CH could be responsible for other crimes.

According to Makin's book (page 91-92) Christine was found wearing clothing that the family did not recognize....specifically a grey turtleneck.

The blue sweater her grandmother had knitted and that she was apparently wearing at time of disappearance was not at the body site?

Also a watch she was reportedly wearing has never been located?

Buttons found at the scence did not match Christine's blouse?

She was found wearing 2 pair of socks?

Where did this turtle neck come from?
Where did the extra pair of socks come from?
Where did the blue sweater and the watch go?
Trophies perhaps?

Could any of these items be related to another crime?

I was wondering about this as well - how sure was JJ about what her daughter had been wearing that day? Any chance her recollections were incorrect? Did LE confirm the last seen wearing info with others who'd seen her: teacher? friends? bus driver? shop Clerk where she bought gum right before she disappeared?

Were the clothes mentioned in the last seen wearing description ever located? By whom? Where? When?

If these clothes weren't only not what she was last seen wearing, where did they come from? Did CH have a daughter? Were these her's perhaps? But then when and where did CJ change into this outfit, and why? More questions here than answers. I'm firm that the location where she was found must have somehow been known to CH. Its not a spot you just "happen" upon one day.... I'm not ready to let this go yet... I think there may well be other victims.