Found Deceased Canada - Genevieve Cormier, 19, St John, NB, 29 Sept 2013 - #2

[Truth Prevails]

From all that I can gather about Gen from media ,Facebook and websleuths,it seems like she was a very caring ,responsible person.I find it odd that she would not have made a last phone call to family ,or even left a text on her phone and left her phone behind ,if she had actually committed suicide.I don't think she would have left her family to wonder what had happened to her,in the event that she had never been found....jmo

I so agree with this. I believe suicide was the farthest thing from Genevieve's mind that afternoon as she walked home.

I think she was thinking about doing her laundry, and getting some decent food in her lovely slim tummy, and maybe catching a nap--just like she texted her friend.

She had an important job interview to attend on Monday morning--and she was looking forward to it--just like she told her father.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I don't know why her death is being possibly classified as a suicide, but IMO, this is not done simply to "makes things easier" for LE, as in most cases, suicide is the last thing a family will accept. So giving a verdict of suicide often proves more troublesome for LE, IMO. I wonder if there is more we are not being told, but JMO.

BBM - I agree. My speculation is that this possible classification is not being done to "make things easier" for LE; but, instead, to calm a terrified public.

Saint John is not a huge city, although I believe it is the largest in New Brunswick, and to have a huge part of their population justifiably terrified for any length of time is unacceptable to them. (After all, we are voters and tax payers.)

I'm sure that is what is behind the interesting media blurbs lately, and--maybe above all--they do not want the national attention, (and pressure to solve,) that the speculated facts would bring.

I apologize for repeating this but it appears to me that LE--through the media and maybe in person--have already given Genn's family a little time to get used to the possibility of suicide.

But, that is what I'm expecting; and I would be the one jumping highest if I am wrong.

And my pure, pure speculation and :cow: is that there is a great deal that LE is not saying.

 

[swedie]

BBM -I'm concerned about what they could find in the toxicology report; and what inferences could be drawn from it.

I've not known very many 19 year olds who haven't done some experimenting.

This is just my own speculation, but they have to close this case as 'something' to keep up the facade that the deaths of the three women who washed up to shore within a year are not related.

So far all the articles we have seen have indicated that they are heading in that direction.

Again pure speculation on my part, but they could try a hidden drug habit that led to suicide.

I think in the end, the family will except it--like the other families have accepted what's been told to them.

I know in their hearts they will always believe in their beautiful, sweet, loving daughter; as I think most of us do.

Justice for Genevieve!

Again I think it is telling when it's been three young women; no males. How ironic is that?!

I would think had Gen used alcohol or illegal drugs the evening before they will show up in toxicology tests but not in high numbers as I do not believe she was heavily involved in alcohol or drugs (if at all) based on the bit of information on her fb. This generation seems to be quite open, in your face and somewhat proud of those "entertainment" things and generally speaking seem somewhat boastful about their use on social network sites such as fb and I don't get that from viewing Gen's page kwim.

If anything, I assume Gen decided to go for a walk along the water and accidentally fell, injuring herself, maybe knocked unconscious and that is how it played out. I would assume even if the autopsy reports showed some head trauma, it would be hard to determine if it happened from a fall or being moved around in the water near rocks and such. It just really bothers me to think this is how she met her end but LE would claim suicide. They obvious know why they came to that conclusion but maybe cannot or won't say. Wish we could find out their theory/findings and put it all to rest. JMHO.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Again I think it is telling when it's been three young women; no males. How ironic is that?!

I would think had Gen used alcohol or illegal drugs the evening before they will show up in toxicology tests but not in high numbers as I do not believe she was heavily involved in alcohol or drugs (if at all) based on the bit of information on her fb. This generation seems to be quite open, in your face and somewhat proud of those "entertainment" things and generally speaking seem somewhat boastful about their use on social network sites such as fb and I don't get that from viewing Gen's page kwim.

If anything, I assume Gen decided to go for a walk along the water and accidentally fell, injuring herself, maybe knocked unconscious and that is how it played out. I would assume even if the autopsy reports showed some head trauma, it would be hard to determine if it happened from a fall or being moved around in the water near rocks and such. It just really bothers me to think this is how she met her end but LE would claim suicide. They obvious know why they came to that conclusion but maybe cannot or won't say. Wish we could find out their theory/findings and put it all to rest. JMHO.

It's too ironic for me, Swedie. I'll never buy it.

I'll just take this opportunity to mention that Shelby was 20 years old, 5'4", 110 lbs; Yeonhee was 45 years of age, 5'4"; and Genn was 19 years old, 5'7" to 5'8", 120 lbs.

So, we can see quite an age gap; but probably within in a certain weight, although I can't find a weight for Yeonhee.

I don't truly believe for a second that Genn was involved with drugs--I'm just trying to brace myself for anything that could possibly be contained in that tox report.

Please bear with me as I try to look at a few things--I don't believe you can get that close to the water. There is a very, very dangerous current in that area--the river is narrowing and coming around a bend; it drops sizably; the rocks are huge; the river is flowing out; and the Bay of Fundy is coming in, (depending on the tides.) It is known to be dangerous, and I read that Genn was very aware of the danger.

I believe the shoreline is fenced off, though I am not certain. I have tried to find a good picture but I can't--although I have caught glimpses of a fence. (My memory tells me the area was fenced, but I admit memories play tricks.)

So, I just can't get to an accidental fall in the water--although I'm trying.

One thing on a positive note, I think they could claim the death as accidental. I don't think they have to add the suicide--but then they have to explain how she ended up in the water.

And I'm not positive about this, but I think they can tell if she drowned or was already gone when she landed in the water. Examining her lungs should tell them that. Depending on the circumstances, maybe.

Anyway, thanks for hanging in if you've read my ramblings.

 

[Sandpiper]

It's too ironic for me, Swedie. I'll never buy it.

I'll just take this opportunity to mention that Shelby was 20 years old, 5'4", 110 lbs; Yeonhee was 45 years of age, 5'4"; and Genn was 19 years old, 5'7" to 5'8", 120 lbs.

So, we can see quite an age gap; but probably within in a certain weight, although I can't find a weight for Yeonhee.

I don't truly believe for a second that Genn was involved with drugs--I'm just trying to brace myself for anything that could possibly be contained in that tox report.

Please bear with me as I try to look at a few things--I don't believe you can get that close to the water. There is a very, very dangerous current in that area--the river is narrowing and coming around a bend; it drops sizably; the rocks are huge; the river is flowing out; and the Bay of Fundy is coming in, (depending on the tides.) It is known to be dangerous, and I read that Genn was very aware of the danger.

I believe the shoreline is fenced off, though I am not certain. I have tried to find a good picture but I can't--although I have caught glimpses of a fence. (My memory tells me the area was fenced, but I admit memories play tricks.)

So, I just can't get to an accidental fall in the water--although I'm trying.

One thing on a positive note, I think they could claim the death as accidental. I don't think they have to add the suicide--but then they have to explain how she ended up in the water.

And I'm not positive about this, but I think they can tell if she drowned or was already gone when she landed in the water. Examining her lungs should tell them that. Depending on the circumstances, maybe.

Anyway, thanks for hanging in if you've read my ramblings.

There is a dock below the Boaz,it's for harbour tour boats and is located on the right side of the Boaz toward the shore on the path side of river. You can access the dock from a set of stairs on the left side of the Boaz. Don't know if these would have been closed on the Sudnday. What bothers me is this: Did dogs pick up her scent on the path along the river toward her home? If so why would she double back to sit on a dock? I also think if Gen had been in the water from the get go her lungs would be full of water in any case. I still believe that we'll never know.

 

[Truth Prevails]

There is a dock below the Boaz,it's for harbour tour boats and is located on the right side of the Boaz toward the shore on the path side of river. You can access the dock from a set of stairs on the left side of the Boaz. Don't know if these would have been closed on the Sudnday.

Thank you, Sandpiper! I was hoping you would drop in.

I think I have zoomed into the area on Genn's case map. That big red arrow marks Genn's last known location; so she was right in the area where the stairs are that you mentioned above.

I can't help it--I'll never believe Genn threw herself in that water or slipped either. I mean, if someone saw her there, surely they would have seen her go to the steps; or what was she doing? I can see the possibility that they know more regarding this sighting than has been released to the media.

http://goo.gl/maps/pahVd

What bothers me is this: Did dogs pick up her scent on the path along the river toward her home? If so why would she double back to sit on a dock? I also think if Gen had been in the water from the get go her lungs would be full of water in any case. I still believe that we'll never know.

I did read where absolutely no scent was picked up by the dogs. Not a trace of Genn was ever found--from the time she was last seen as marked by the red arrow in the map above--until she turned up on the beach in Anthony's Cove.

At this point, it's hard to say if everything reported in the media has been correct.

I agree that your lungs fill full of water if you drown; but if you are put in the water after being deceased, I think they can tell by examining the lung tissue that water was not in your lungs at the time of death--do you think that thought has any credibility?

Sadly, I do believe we will never know, too. Unless they get a big break--and soon--before they get everything closed; that's all that could change things.

 

[swedie]

I highly doubt a jump from the bridge. At that time of day, I'm certain someone would have seen her if it's a fairly well traveled bridge kwim.

So there is really no beach along that stretch where she was last seen, that she could have decided to go for a walk along, ended up climbing upon some large rocks where she could have slipped or lost her footing causing her to fall into the water? TIA and JMO.

 

[jillybean51]

There is a dock below the Boaz,it's for harbour tour boats and is located on the right side of the Boaz toward the shore on the path side of river. You can access the dock from a set of stairs on the left side of the Boaz. Don't know if these would have been closed on the Sudnday. What bothers me is this: Did dogs pick up her scent on the path along the river toward her home? If so why would she double back to sit on a dock? I also think if Gen had been in the water from the get go her lungs would be full of water in any case. I still believe that we'll never know.

Using bing 3D maps on windows,it is quite detailed for the path by the Reversing a Falls Bridge.By simply rotating your view ,you can actually look right at the cliffs,and I see no obvious drop off either.My guess is she was carried to the waters edge and put in the water following foul play.The surrounding area of the park is very isolated.Also I still don't rule out abduction and later taken to the same isolated park and put in the water.Regardless,this map was very helpful...Bing 3D.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I highly doubt a jump from the bridge. At that time of day, I'm certain someone would have seen her if it's a fairly well traveled bridge kwim.

Yep, I know what you mean; and I agree. Plus the SJP confirmed that she successfully crossed the bridge and walked just past the Boaz Restaurant.

It is a very well traveled bridge, and the current locals can correct me if I'm wrong.

When I lived there, that area was a major thoroughfare; and I don't think it has changed that much.

So there is really no beach along that stretch where she was last seen, that she could have decided to go for a walk along, ended up climbing upon some large rocks where she could have slipped or lost her footing causing her to fall into the water? TIA and JMO.

This is kind of hard to explain, and maybe the Saint Johner's can do it better, but it's mostly cliffs and big rocks.

I'll post a few pictures to help me with my explanation. The bridge you can see in these photos is the Reversing Falls bridge that Genn crossed.

In the bottom shot, the building in the top left corner is the Boaz Restaurant. Notice the height and solidness of the rocks.

The last confirmed sighting of Genn was just beyond that building. From the angle of the picture, I think the person taking it was standing very near Genn's last known location--so, unless she left the path, (which I believe it is actually a paved area at that point,) and climbed a fence, she would have been very safe on solid ground.

And even if she walked beyond this area and followed the actual trail, it is still a safe distance from the rocks.

http://www.berggreen.org/travel/blog_pictures/ReversingFallsHigh.jpg Reversing Falls High Tide

http://www.berggreen.org/travel/blog_pictures/ReversingFallsLow.jpg Reversing Falls Low Tide

I'll post this Google map showing the Saint John river/Bay of Fundy area, that is particular to this case.

Marker "A" is the Reversing Falls bridge and you can see how the river turns and flows under the bridge where the dangerous rapids are; and then continues around one more bend before it opens into the Bay of Fundy; which is feed by the Atlantic Ocean.

I marked where her remains were found with the red dot. If she went into the water anywhere near the Reversing Falls bridge, you can see the journey she traveled in that water before she came to shore.

Interesting to note--right about behind the letters "I" and the "N" of Saint John, is the approximate location of where the other two women were found.

(I forgot to mark that when I was doing the map.)

http://goo.gl/maps/XOzqg


But the last thing I should mention is that apparently now-a-days there is a set of steps near the Boaz restaurant, (sometimes.) I tried to find a current picture, but I had no luck.

The way I understood it was that the steps are part of a floating dock that they can put out for tourists to climb to the restaurant, (but then remove.)

A person would know that it is not advisable to climb down those stairs alone, I would think; but that's all I can really say.

It's a stretch--a real stretch--to say that she accidentally fell in that water; but anything is possible; although not probably. imo

 

[Truth Prevails]

Using bing 3D maps on windows,it is quite detailed for the path by the Reversing a Falls Bridge.By simply rotating your view ,you can actually look right at the cliffs,and I see no obvious drop off either.My guess is she was carried to the waters edge and put in the water following foul play.The surrounding area of the park is very isolated.Also I still don't rule out abduction and later taken to the same isolated park and put in the water.Regardless,this map was very helpful...Bing 3D.

Jillybean - can you add a link for it? I would love to see it. I tried in Google but it doesn't seem that clear.

If you add the link, I'll do a screen shot so we can all see it.

I'm going to try to see if I can find it in Bing 3D. I don't know how much luck I'll have as I'm not at all familiar with that.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Using bing 3D maps on windows,it is quite detailed for the path by the Reversing a Falls Bridge.By simply rotating your view ,you can actually look right at the cliffs,and I see no obvious drop off either.My guess is she was carried to the waters edge and put in the water following foul play.The surrounding area of the park is very isolated.Also I still don't rule out abduction and later taken to the same isolated park and put in the water.Regardless,this map was very helpful...Bing 3D.

Jillybean - can you add a link for it? I would love to see it. I tried in Google but it doesn't seem that clear.

If you add the link, I'll do a screen shot so we can all see it.

I'm going to try to see if I can find it in Bing 3D. I don't know how much luck I'll have as I'm not at all familiar with that.

I went into Bing Maps, but I didn't find the feature for 3D. I'm not sure, but it seems to be something I have to download; so I think I better stick to what I have.

I noted when I plugged in Reversing Falls bridge, Saint John, NB, it took me to a position a fair amount above the bridge, actually towards Indiantown.

This is Google Earth view:

http://goo.gl/maps/G382t

It looks flat, but I assure you that it is not.

That little white "L" shaped thing out in the water is the floating dock. (I think.)

 

[Sandpiper]

I went into Bing Maps, but I didn't find the feature for 3D. I'm not sure, but it seems to be something I have to download; so I think I better stick to what I have.

I noted when I plugged in Reversing Falls bridge, Saint John, NB, it took me to a position a fair amount above the bridge, actually towards Indiantown.

This is Google Earth view:

http://goo.gl/maps/G382t

It looks flat, but I assure you that it is not.

That little white "L" shaped thing out in the water is the floating dock. (I think.)

Yes that little white thing is the dock. If you go on that map and place the little yellow man on the right side of the Boaz you can see the entrance to the stairs. There is a white sign that says something about tours. It is very rocky on the banks of the river and the rocks at the foot of the embankment are covered in seaweed. She would have not gone down on them on her own I would't think.

 

[jillybean51]

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...uS888RZ-MH0IDs61lWSJdEg&bvm=bv.56988011,d.cWc
Here is the link Truth Prevails.You do have to download it but it's free and I find much better than google maps.I'll try to post a screen shot if I can figure it out.

 

[jillybean51]

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...uS888RZ-MH0IDs61lWSJdEg&bvm=bv.56988011,d.cWc
Here is the link Truth Prevails.You do have to download it but it's free and I find much better than google maps.I'll try to post a screen shot if I can figure it out.

http://binged.it/1b98BrN Restaurant on far right hand side.Hope this helps to see the elevation of the path as well as how isolated the area is...:seeya:

 

[Amster]

Is her family disputing COD? If not, then they must have reasons to accept it. They knew her best...

 

[jillybean51]

http://binged.it/1b99j8o
http://binged.it/1e12dRy


The COD had not been released yet.They were waiting on Tox results.

 

[Sandpiper]

http://binged.it/1b98BrN Restaurant on far right hand side.Hope this helps to see the elevation of the path as well as how isolated the area is...:seeya:

Excellent view Thanks! the dock is connected now. If Gen had been on dock I wonder if anyone could have seen her from the windows of the Fallsview Resturant.? There are tables right at the windows overlooking the river toward that side. The elevation of the Fallsview is higher but the trees might have blocked the view of the dock.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Is her family disputing COD? If not, then they must have reasons to accept it. They knew her best...

Well, her family definitely disputed it the first night the local news reported that it was likely suicide.

And it caused the headlines to be adjusted to read that foul play has not been ruled out.

This was before Genn's funeral; and since then her family has withdrawn.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Yes that little white thing is the dock. If you go on that map and place the little yellow man on the right side of the Boaz you can see the entrance to the stairs. There is a white sign that says something about tours. It is very rocky on the banks of the river and the rocks at the foot of the embankment are covered in seaweed. She would have not gone down on them on her own I would't think.

Drats, I can't find it, Sandpiper. I'm zoomed right in and all I see is the where the flower bed and the fence meet.

I'm working my way down the comments, though. I might attempt Bing.

Regarding the BBM - I absolutely agree. And also, that's why all the local searches centered inland--they really didn't think Genn was in the water.

http://goo.gl/maps/uvnGR

 

[Truth Prevails]

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...uS888RZ-MH0IDs61lWSJdEg&bvm=bv.56988011,d.cWc
Here is the link Truth Prevails.You do have to download it but it's free and I find much better than google maps.I'll try to post a screen shot if I can figure it out.

http://binged.it/1b98BrN Restaurant on far right hand side.Hope this helps to see the elevation of the path as well as how isolated the area is...:seeya:

Thank you so much, Jillybean!

I think I've got it downloaded. It is much better. Wow! I'll have to spend a little time with it, but I've done this screen shot from your link.

I can see the steps and everything! Yay!

I've used a yellow dot to mark the approximate location of Genn's last known location.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rj...sY29tZVBhbmVsVGFzayUyNCUyNDAlMjIlM0FudWxsJTdE

I find it isolated, too. I wouldn't walk it alone at night, but I think I would have in the daytime. (I hope no woman alone does anytime, at this point.)