FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #21

[flay012995]

If the evidence was that they went to a regular rental car agency and the only car available was a Prius, that might make sense. But they rented the car from a Prius rental agency. I find it hard to believe that the only rental car agency open was one that only rented Priuses. In my opinion either they are among the stupidest criminals alive or they went to that agency for a reason. Possibly the reason was that the agency was close by and they simply didn’t consider how easily identifiable a Prius would be. But who knows, Katie doesn’t seem to have addressed that in her proffer. But the “Rent a Hybrid” agency part of this story has always jumped out at me as one of the weirder parts.

They rented the prius on July 15, 2014 and it was checked out at 6:15p.m. I guess they did not have much option to look for more rental cars at night time

 

[Misy]

There's an excellent video here on the different cars, including photos of the rental places, and what was available.

This includes another car that was linked to the murder (seen behind Daniel Markel's house with two Latino guys snooping around)- but hasn't been confirmed- this was in July 2014- and guess what, it's (another) 4-door grey import.

To me all these cars look very similar, the video makes the case, and I don't understand how anyone could look at this video and not see impossible coincidences. The fact that LR doesn't remember the details is not surprising to me, nor that important. I believe the drug dealer witness reported overhearing SG and LR talking on the phone to someone (probably KM)- some kind of disagreement or discussion about the car...

Hi Elfwoman335! Can you pls elaborate about the overheard phone convo, and by whom? I’ve not heard of this before. TIA

 

[Misy]

New call upload
tedious but short.
only interesting bit is Charlie making excuses for Wendi and making up reasons for her being incommunicado for so long. ' I guess you have to get clearance to be okay before we talk.'

Also claims that the public were lying to get onto the jury, because it's such a famous case. SMH.

BTW it's the same Alex P whom the parents refer to in an earlier call that day, he was in the condo lobby and was doing some business for them ( Donna had said that he'd been dropping off paperwork for them and said Alex had said the verdict was a joke. Years ago, Alex sold Charlie a building/unit. Charlie wants Alex's help to get Adam to ' do the right thing' and info is being passed via Rashbaum. Charlie had said ' Adam owes me big time')

If you please… who is Alex and Adam??

 

[61Montcalm]

I thought the reason why they had to rent the Prius is because that was the only available car at that time. It was Luis Rivera who rented the Prius (July 2014) while Sigfredo did rent a Nissan Altima on the first trip (June 2014)

The thing is though that Jeff LaCasse drove a silver / light gold (GM used to call it "Firethorn Metallic") Nissan Altima or Sentra. Isn't it a coincidence that this is the car that Sigfredo rented on the first trip? Is it truly a coincidence or was the rental car choice suggested by Wendy? MOO... I think she knew exactly what was going on.

 

[Knitpicker]

Dan did manage to find a thriving Jewish community in Tallahassee. It’s not Miami, but it’s the state capital and home to a large university, so it probably has a larger Jewish community than the typical small southern town would. Dan belonged to three synagogues there. They lived in a wealthy neighborhood with larger homes.

In fact, I think I heard or read somewhere that Dan actually liked the idea of being part of a smaller Jewish community where he could take a bigger role. He was fine staying in Tallahassee.

But, yeah, Tallahassee doesnt seem to me to be Donna and Harvey’s kind of place, and we know they didn’t want Wendi there. Listen to how Donna and Charlie talk about the place even now, in these jail calls.

Yeah I wasn’t talking from Dan’s perspective.

 

[Knitpicker]

I wouldn’t personally get Botox or fillers from anyone who isn’t an MD specializing in the muscles and skin of the entire face and with a keen aesthetic sense, such as a dermatologist or plastic surgeon. They do it at my eye doctor’s now. No thank you! Not worth whatever money you save.

Since theres a chance of drooping eyelids, an eye Doctor may be a better choice than a dermatologist.

 

[apeXperience]

The Adelson family dynamic has been described as enmeshment. The enmeshed family system is characterized with 1) lack of boundaries such that roles and expectations are confused, 2) the parents are inappropriately reliant on their children for support, and 3) children are not allowed to become emotionally independent from their parents.

In the Adelson case, this characterization does not seem to be applicable to Robert and Wendi. Robert has been estranged from the family at least since his graduate school years. The court proceedings including the multiple PCA and ASW related to the Dan Markel’s murder provide ample justification to conclude that Wendi was overly reliant on her parents and her brother Charles for support, and not the other way around.

It seems that the enmeshment is mostly between Donna and her son Charles. Hence, I posit that Charles Adelson is a victim of emotional incest or covert incest from the narcissistic personality disorder of his mother Donna Adelson. It is not an incestuous sexual abuse but rather the ill emotional relation between a parent (Donna) and a child (Charles) that erases boundaries. The parent seeks excessive emotional and practical support from the child.

An authoritative source discussing emotional incest is referenced here “Hosier, D. (2015). Child-parent relationship too close for comfort? Emotional incest explained. Childhood Trauma Recovery.”
childhoodtraumarecovery.com/all-articles/child-parent-relationship-too-close-for-comfort-emotional-incest-explained

 

[ChezSimone]

Yep, the Prius makes no sense, to me. I remember hearing somewhere that they may have been told to rent a Prius because they were going to a college town and they thought that a lot of people would be liberal and environmentally conscious there, so the Prius would be a common car there and they would blend in. Does anyone else remember that? It is so weird- the rental agency they used specifically ONLY rented Priuses. Like, there must be a million other car rental places in Miami where you can rent all kinds of cars. Why go to such a limited and specific agency if you weren’t deliberately seeking to rent a Prius? I believe this agency was right near KM’s house, so it could simply have been a matter of convenience. But to me it’s strange. Those cars have a very distinct profile and weren’t common then at all; they aren’t even that common now. And metallic green? Could they have thought it was silver? So many questions.

Since watching the Dateline Special about Dan Markel, i was left under the impression that Prius were actually very popular in Thalahassee.
Forward to 11:50 of this video:

 

[opt]

The thing is though that Jeff LaCasse drove a silver / light gold (GM used to call it "Firethorn Metallic") Nissan Altima or Sentra. Isn't it a coincidence that this is the car that Sigfredo rented on the first trip? Is it truly a coincidence or was the rental car choice suggested by Wendy?

Given that this was not repeated, I’d call it possibly the only true coincidence in this case.

 

[Zedzded]

Or avoid talking to/meeting their ex-spouse for over a week and then suddenly decide to drive right in front of their house within 1 hour of their ex-spouse's murder. But upon seeing lots of police activity and crime scene tape (she even says she saw the tape..3 different stories, depending on which trial you watched), backs away (in her own easily recognized vehicle) after being spotted by police officers ( one who's wife drives the same style vehicle.) This raised eyebrows because it is classic criminal behavior to visit the crime scene. And despite a pending lunch date, has to make a hasty shopping trip to a liquor store in the area (never hurts to have a sales recipt when proving an alibi...right Columbo? Or a lame reason to be in the neighborhood, far from your next scheduled lunch engagement...sure feces Sherlock!) Heaven forbid in her busy and hectic, entirely planned day. She could have put off purchasing the liquor after her luncheon date, right? (Bulliet bourbon was merely a suggested selection... the invite stated one could bring a selection of choice. Heck, I'm not going to turn a person away...show up with a six pack and you're in baby!) She wasn't working that day and wasn't going to pick up the children for another 3 hours...so why make a circuitous, out-of-the-way route at that time???
CA claims, "what are the odds? One in 10,000?" Not even close Charlie, I think the 2014 odds were closer to 1 in 187,189!

She could have possibly argued away her circuitous route, claiming it was a familiar route, but she screwed herself by lying about it 5 times.

 

[Zedzded]

I'd be interested to know how much gas she put in and whether she needed to or not. She was late for lunch did she really need to stop for fuel?

 

[LinasK]

The thing is though that Jeff LaCasse drove a silver / light gold (GM used to call it "Firethorn Metallic") Nissan Altima or Sentra. Isn't it a coincidence that this is the car that Sigfredo rented on the first trip? Is it truly a coincidence or was the rental car choice suggested by Wendy? MOO... I think she knew exactly what was going on.

There's no way that I'd confuse a gold/silver Nissan Altima or Sentra with a green Prius, even if both cars were a light metallic paint. The body styles are totally different. And we own an Altima.

 

[Knitpicker]

The Adelson family dynamic has been described as enmeshment. The enmeshed family system is characterized with 1) lack of boundaries such that roles and expectations are confused, 2) the parents are inappropriately reliant on their children for support, and 3) children are not allowed to become emotionally independent from their parents.

In the Adelson case, this characterization does not seem to be applicable to Robert and Wendi. Robert has been estranged from the family at least since his graduate school years. The court proceedings including the multiple PCA and ASW related to the Dan Markel’s murder provide ample justification to conclude that Wendi was overly reliant on her parents and her brother Charles for support, and not the other way around.

It seems that the enmeshment is mostly between Donna and her son Charles. Hence, I posit that Charles Adelson is a victim of emotional incest or covert incest from the narcissistic personality disorder of his mother Donna Adelson. It is not an incestuous sexual abuse but rather the ill emotional relation between a parent (Donna) and a child (Charles) that erases boundaries. The parent seeks excessive emotional and practical support from the child.

An authoritative source discussing emotional incest is referenced here “Hosier, D. (2015). Child-parent relationship too close for comfort? Emotional incest explained. Childhood Trauma Recovery.”
childhoodtraumarecovery.com/all-articles/child-parent-relationship-too-close-for-comfort-emotional-incest-explained

Or “Mommas boy” syndrome.

 

[amicuscurie]

Since theres a chance of drooping eyelids, an eye Doctor may be a better choice than a dermatologist.

OMG- good point! i did get a drooping eyelid once. The doctor did something different the next time so that wouldnt happen. So much for understanding the muscles of the face! And I actually like this doctor!

 

[cottonweaver]

If you please… who is Alex and Adam??

Other than what's said on the tape, I have no idea. I'll go refind the link for you. ( The surname of one of them is on there, I just omitted it as a courtesy)

BTW what did you make of the interesting part of the call where Charlie's backing-up Wendi? Claiming they're on good terms (It's in the WS post post you're replying to)

 

[amicuscurie]

Other than what's said on the tape, I have no idea. I'll go refind the link for you. ( The surname of one of them is on there, I just omitted it as a courtesy)

BTW what did you make of the interesting part of the call where Charlie's backing-up Wendi? Claiming they're on good terms (It's in the WS post post you're replying to)

In my opinion he seems to want to believe she’s a loving sister with whom he is close. It would make sense that he would want to believe that, in my opinion because he has been convicted of a crime which he did for her. Who knows, it is possible he has been fed a story his whole life regarding how she loves him and needs him to protect her from her own choices. To me, that is consistent with the bump calls about how she should date Dave and he can help her realize that, and the texts shown at trial about how she shouldn’t buy a house and he can help her realize that. Even now, Donna says on the “hot mic” call that when he asks about Wendi she doesnt have the heart to tell him she hasn’t asked for him. Might she also feel that it is not in her interest for him to realize Wendi may not be as supportive or appreciative as he thinks, as that might cause him to flip? (Remember those bump calls where he says she doesn’t realize how lucky she is?).

Imagine, hypothetically, that you have done this horrible crime for someone. Imagine how difficult it would be to accept that this person doesnt appear to want to visit or call you in prison. You might try to convince yourself/someone else that this was not, in fact, the situation. In my opinion the truth would be too devastating to cope with.

 

[Weki]

The Adelson family dynamic has been described as enmeshment. The enmeshed family system is characterized with 1) lack of boundaries such that roles and expectations are confused, 2) the parents are inappropriately reliant on their children for support, and 3) children are not allowed to become emotionally independent from their parents.

In the Adelson case, this characterization does not seem to be applicable to Robert and Wendi. Robert has been estranged from the family at least since his graduate school years. The court proceedings including the multiple PCA and ASW related to the Dan Markel’s murder provide ample justification to conclude that Wendi was overly reliant on her parents and her brother Charles for support, and not the other way around.

It seems that the enmeshment is mostly between Donna and her son Charles. Hence, I posit that Charles Adelson is a victim of emotional incest or covert incest from the narcissistic personality disorder of his mother Donna Adelson. It is not an incestuous sexual abuse but rather the ill emotional relation between a parent (Donna) and a child (Charles) that erases boundaries. The parent seeks excessive emotional and practical support from the child.

An authoritative source discussing emotional incest is referenced here “Hosier, D. (2015). Child-parent relationship too close for comfort? Emotional incest explained. Childhood Trauma Recovery.”
childhoodtraumarecovery.com/all-articles/child-parent-relationship-too-close-for-comfort-emotional-incest-explained

I wonder if Harvey was emotionally neglectful to Donna or is he also emotionally unstable? And they (but primarily Donna) used Charlie as some type of emotional caretaker, someone to soothe their anxieties. Because he keeps saying on the wiretaps/jail calls how worked up they get and how they need to take Xanax and calm down. It’s interesting that Charlie assumed this role. I predict this would have naturally gone to Robert as the eldest. But once he dropped out of the family dysfunction and stopped playing his role, Charlie the black sheep had to assume the role. And I think he’s not emotionally capable and it overwhelmed him. JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

@Misy
the lobby jail call you asked for.

 

[amicuscurie]

I wonder if Harvey was emotionally neglectful to Donna or is he also emotionally unstable? And they (but primarily Donna) used Charlie as some type of emotional caretaker, someone to soothe their anxieties. Because he keeps saying on the wiretaps/jail calls how worked up they get and how they need to take Xanax and calm down. It’s interesting that Charlie assumed this role. I predict this would have naturally gone to Robert as the eldest. But once he dropped out of the family dysfunction and stopped playing his role, Charlie the black sheep had to assume the role. And I think he’s not emotionally capable and it overwhelmed him. JMO

I like this analysis. I do notice on some of the bump calls that they appear to be worried about upsetting Harvey. I also believe, but don’t know, that they kept him out of the initial planning, just based on that text where Donna says she needs “alone time” and waits until she can get to a bathroom to talk to Charlie. (Presumably the only other person with her on that drive was Harvey, so it appears to me like she didn’t want him to hear whatever they were going to talk about.)

It is possible he had a temper (I think I remember hearing LaCasse say in one of his police interviews that Wendi told him something like that). Or, it is possible he simply had a tendency to overreact or become physically ill when emotionally upset (there are references to his blood pressure in texts, and some reference to his being ill on the bump calls).

As for whether he may have been emotionally distant, on the jail calls we mostly hear him sort of nodding along in the background, he doesn’t say much, so that could be consistent with not providing as much emotional support as Donna may have needed.

From the bump calls about the lobster and other things, I get the impression that Donna seems to have relied on Charlie to tell her what to do, and to me she seems to believe he knows a lot about a lot. He seems to me, based on some of those calls, to like telling both parents what to do and telling them it’s going to be ok. Perhaps you are correct, that he has assumed a caretaking role that he might not be suited for, but that he enjoys. In my opinion he definitely enjoyed whatever change in status he may have had in the family once Rob had disappointed them and was out of the picture. I believe he was the black sheep before that, but that role changed a bit after Rob broke away. I think he was still looked at as not quite as good as Rob, but they also needed him to fulfill some kind of emotional role.

ETA: I am definitely of the opinion that Harvey is NOT the stereotypical quiet, henpecked, obliging husband some people believe him to be.

 

[Knitpicker]

@Misy
the lobby jail call you asked for.

From sushi to Ritz crackers.