I honestly don't know about the handcuff part. But in my opinion, which isn't very good, there are so many gray areas of the law, LE probably thinks they can do whatever they deem necessary. Unless somebody is going to sit and look up statutes all day long, we probably won't know for certain.
FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #1
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Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3- Latest: TokyoSleuth
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ninij9
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If I was the family lawyer watching the medical bills pile up I would say: charge him, or get out of the room. What would the benefit to AH be by delaying charges? I'm sure the bills are astronomical. I know what the benefits to taxpayers are. Now, can you be under arrest all this time without being charged with anything? (I'm sorry, I can't just shut up about this, I think it's weird).
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I would think that would be LE. As a nurse, I only had to ask visitors to leave once. I had a new mom, C-section that morn with at least three visitors for over three hours. Mom was in alot of pain, nausea due to morphine, and also just plain tired. So I called the doc, got an order for a different pain med, something for nausea, and then asked her friends to come back to visit the next day, explaining pt needed to rest. Then I called admissions and told them no calls the rest of the eve. In that situation, it was a no brainer, and her visitors respected my call.
Jax49
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I'm not familiar with the rules at the hospital where he is, but my experience with intensive care situations (as family) has been that very limited visiting is allowed. Usually 10 minutes 2 or 3 times a day at very specific times.
x_files
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I do think he took out his anger for his father on the male victim.
Lots to think about here. I agree with your train of thought.
Jax49
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Not sure there is much new.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-face-biter-suspect-awake-20160826-story.html
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-face-biter-suspect-awake-20160826-story.html
Lets say his lawyer tells a guard to get out of the room. Then who is going to be responsible if AH gets of the bed and attacks doctors and nurses?
And he isn't considered to be under arrest as far as I can tell. He isn't handcuffed.
x_files
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or wearing a face mask like Hannibal Lector. Honestly, i wouldn't want him in the same hospital as me.
ninij9
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Thanks Jenny. I guess I'm just skootching. What I was thinking is of all the grey areas here.
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I've been reading all the posts here and wondering what could have been in his mind during this attack. It makes sense to me that he suffered from schizophrenia and for whatever reason, it consumed him that night. Could have been the interactions he had had with dad at restaurant and coming home for the summer, and stresses accumulating. Steroid use or getting off them triggering roid rage also makes sense to me as a cause of the escalation. The weeks leading up to this he was hearing voices and told his mom he was a superhero and invincible. He told his dad that day he felt his dad in danger and that he (AH)would protect him. He had sensed danger in the yard which he handled by shooting a bird with a BB gun I think. My point is that I think he was having visual and audio hallucinations that took over him during that 3 mile walk from the restaurant to dads house. I think he saw the couple in their garage watching TV and imagined them as monsters - possibly thinking it was indeed his dad's house. Maybe he saw the TV as speaking to him or something. I think he had a complete reality break and was fighting demons... Mistakenly seeing the demons in the wonderful couple he heinously murdered... Instead of in his own diseased mind.
I do not excuse him at all, I think he knew something was going wrong with his mind 3-6 months ago. But by the time he was home for the summer I think the stresses of being in that environment sent him over the edge to the point where he could no longer think clearly. His parents absolutely should have taken him to a psychiatrist or hospital when he was talking about danger and having powers.
I have a family member with schizophrenia and I think that is why I'm so interested in what may have been going through AH mind that night to cause this horrifying outcome. But there seems the red flags were out, but were ignored or excused for what ever reason. Bottom line for me is: the parents are to blame for not getting help for their mentally ill kid.
Just want to add: the preoccupation with teeth is very interesting, and I think does point to issues with his father.
I do not excuse him at all, I think he knew something was going wrong with his mind 3-6 months ago. But by the time he was home for the summer I think the stresses of being in that environment sent him over the edge to the point where he could no longer think clearly. His parents absolutely should have taken him to a psychiatrist or hospital when he was talking about danger and having powers.
I have a family member with schizophrenia and I think that is why I'm so interested in what may have been going through AH mind that night to cause this horrifying outcome. But there seems the red flags were out, but were ignored or excused for what ever reason. Bottom line for me is: the parents are to blame for not getting help for their mentally ill kid.
Just want to add: the preoccupation with teeth is very interesting, and I think does point to issues with his father.
Curious Me
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I, along with most people here, tend to see this as a fast developing mental illness perhaps triggered by steroid abuse or getting off them. However, this is exactly what the father is hoping for in the mental insanity defense.
Just for a moment, I want to try to flip my thinking to other ways of looking at this.
Suppose half of what the family said is made up after the fact? Mom didn't call the police until three hours later. Is there any way she could have known what he had done and then called police alluding to his strangeness within the last week? Could they all be exaggerating the mental illness angle to plea for sympathy for their son? How would I feel if this was just a young man strung out on street drugs?
No, I don't think so. The videos tell me he really was suffering mentally. He was off and kind of a loner not fitting in really. Even if this was brought on by drug abuse because I'm convinced he did do steroids, he still should've had professional help with that.
What the parents share about the delusional statements he was making and then that night the mental distress they must have seen with him leaving the restaurant twice, etc., His self-harm, his superhuman strength, the drinking something caustic, attacking complete strangers, the biting,-- all seem part of a psychotic break even if connected to roid rage. All the events leading up to the murders reveal warning signs the family were not taking serious enough to get him help, even if this was all brought on by drug use. I wonder what made them not get him help because they did have enough resource$.
The parents are going to have to admit the build up was not quite as sudden, they handled it wrong, ignored the signs, and that they failed to get him professional mental help in time to stop this from happening. At this point, I don't think it'll be a DP trial.
:cow: I'd love to hear your MOO too.
Just for a moment, I want to try to flip my thinking to other ways of looking at this.
Suppose half of what the family said is made up after the fact? Mom didn't call the police until three hours later. Is there any way she could have known what he had done and then called police alluding to his strangeness within the last week? Could they all be exaggerating the mental illness angle to plea for sympathy for their son? How would I feel if this was just a young man strung out on street drugs?
No, I don't think so. The videos tell me he really was suffering mentally. He was off and kind of a loner not fitting in really. Even if this was brought on by drug abuse because I'm convinced he did do steroids, he still should've had professional help with that.
What the parents share about the delusional statements he was making and then that night the mental distress they must have seen with him leaving the restaurant twice, etc., His self-harm, his superhuman strength, the drinking something caustic, attacking complete strangers, the biting,-- all seem part of a psychotic break even if connected to roid rage. All the events leading up to the murders reveal warning signs the family were not taking serious enough to get him help, even if this was all brought on by drug use. I wonder what made them not get him help because they did have enough resource$.
The parents are going to have to admit the build up was not quite as sudden, they handled it wrong, ignored the signs, and that they failed to get him professional mental help in time to stop this from happening. At this point, I don't think it'll be a DP trial.
:cow: I'd love to hear your MOO too.
FSU spring classes were over April 29th. Unless he took summer classes he could of been home for three ànd a half months. I find it interesting that he could of been home that long and dad only noticed a change in him the last two weeks.
Same thoughts glf, but what if AH fakes it sometimes?
Who actually knows what goes on in that hospital room, when the police are not in there, I understand he has a tube, but the father :liar:, oh well, that is a totally different subject, I see him plotting the whole defense theory to him! :no:
jmo :moo:
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I'm coming late to the case so forgive me if this has been addressed or not.
With him talking about having superpowers, I'm wondering if drinking the caustic fluids after the murder was part of that. Didn't The Hulk turn into The Hulk after drinking something? I'm not up on my superpower stories so I may have that wrong, but many stories over centuries having featured people turning into something else after drinking something. Just wondering if there is a connection here.
jmopinion
With him talking about having superpowers, I'm wondering if drinking the caustic fluids after the murder was part of that. Didn't The Hulk turn into The Hulk after drinking something? I'm not up on my superpower stories so I may have that wrong, but many stories over centuries having featured people turning into something else after drinking something. Just wondering if there is a connection here.
jmopinion
slanda
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That's exactly how acute schizophrenia develops (via http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/conditions/brain-and-nervous-system/a341/schizophrenia/) :
"What is schizophrenia?
Schizophrenia is a major mental illness that causes changes in perception, thoughts and behaviour.
It is a complex condition that defies simple description, but a distinction can be made between two broad types: acute schizophrenia and chronic schizophrenia.
Acute schizophrenia
This is the form that probably most comes to mind when people think of schizophrenia.
Acute schizophrenia is when a previously healthy person, generally a young adult, shows increasingly odd behaviour over a fairly short period of time of perhaps a few weeks.
It can take the form of hallucinations, irrational beliefs or disordered thoughts, ie illogical or incoherent thinking of any degree of severity.
'Positive' symptoms
The most common symptoms of acute schizophrenia are:
lack of insight
auditory hallucinations (hearing sounds, voices or music)
delusions of persecution
suspiciousness
flat mood
thoughts spoken aloud.
These symptoms are called the positive symptoms of schizophrenia.
Not all patients with acute schizophrenia experience all of these symptoms.
Mood disturbance often accompanies acute schizophrenia and can be of any type, such as depression, anxiety, irritability or euphoria.
Emotional responses are often inappropriate for their surroundings – for example, laughing at sad news or appearing unconcerned by important events.
Generally, a schizophrenic knows where they are in time and place, but the presence of disordered thoughts may make them feel confused.
Higher mental reasoning is usually impaired and they often lack insight into their condition. They find it difficult to plan things or organise themselves.
Spotting the signs
Usually a person suffering from schizophrenia will not know they are experiencing symptoms of the illness.
By definition, hallucinations and delusions are experienced as real by the person having them.
As a result, the person with schizophrenia may have different perceptions of the world compared with the rest of us.
Delusions
The following delusions are strongly suggestive of schizophrenia:
the belief they are under the control of another influence
that thoughts are being put into or taken out of their mind.
If a person has delusions of persecution, they may be suspicious of any questions about their mental state.
Often the person may feel persecuted or 'got at' in some way, which can cause fear and anxiety.
Other people may notice a change in the person's behaviour, or in the content of their speech.
Sufferers may become preoccupied with certain issues that seem bizarre to those around them.
They may express paranoid ideas or respond to the hallucinations they experience. These hallucinations usually take the form of hearing voices that other people cannot hear.
Chronic schizophrenia
This is the longer-term state and is characterised by:
a lack of drive
underactivity
social withdrawal.
Left to their own devices, schizophrenics may spend long periods of time doing nothing, or engage in repeated and purposeless activity. Sometimes they can neglect themselves quite markedly.
As with the acute state, hallucinations and delusions are common.
Sometimes in chronic schizophrenia the person appears to become used to these disordered thoughts.
For example, they might harbour the idea that someone is trying to get at them, but this does not cause any emotional reaction.
'Negative' symptoms
The most common symptoms of chronic schizophrenia are:
social withdrawal
underactivity and slowness
lack of conversation or interests
odd ideas or behaviour
neglect of appearance
depression.
These symptoms are often called the negative symptoms of schizophrenia.
Not all people with chronic schizophrenia experience all of the symptoms.
How common is schizophrenia?
Worldwide schizophrenia is present in two to four people per 1000 of the population at any one time. One in 100 people will develop schizophrenia in their lifetime.
How does schizophrenia develop?
The cause of schizophrenia is unknown, but it may have a genetic component.
There is no 'gene for schizophrenia' but a family history of the illness increases the risk of being affected:
if a grandparent had the illness, the risk rises to 3 per cent
if one parent was affected, the risk is as high as 10 per cent
this rises to 40 per cent if both parents have schizophrenia.
Other predisposing factors in the development of schizophrenia include complications during pregnancy or childbirth and difficulties in childhood development.
Factors that may trigger an episode of schizophrenia include stressful life events, and the use of illegal drugs, such as cannabis.
What can schizophrenics and their families do to help themselves?
If you think you are experiencing symptoms of schizophrenia, you should seek help from your doctor.
However, one of the features of the disease is sufferers do not understand they are unwell during acute episodes of illness. It is therefore important that family and friends are able to seek help on their behalf.
The first point of call should be the person's family doctor or mental health team worker.
Schizophrenics who are on long-term medication should continue to take this medication, because it has a protective effect against future relapses.
How does the doctor make a diagnosis?
The diagnosis is based on an assessment of the history given by the patient and by any other people who are able to give further information.
What is the course of the disease?
About a quarter of the people diagnosed with schizophrenia will have one episode of illness, make a good recovery and have no further problems.
A further 25 per cent will develop a long-term chronic illness with no periods of remission.
The remaining 50 per cent of those diagnosed will have a long-term illness that comes and goes with periods of remission and relapse.
The long-term outcome may be worse in people:
with poor social support
with a strong family history of schizophrenia
in whom the illness came on slowly
in whom treatment was delayed.
Male sex and continuing use of illicit drugs are also associated with a poorer outcome.
The risk of relapse is significantly improved by continuing appropriate medication for at least six months after an acute episode.
Positive family intervention may also help to maintain periods without illness, as can help with social skills training and psychological therapy.
People with schizophrenia have higher rates of depression than the general population. There are also high rates of suicide among people with schizophrenia."
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I don't think it is related, but even so the Hulk didn't turn into the Hulk after ingesting antifreeze, weed killer or whatever you'd typically find in a garage...why he did that, I don't know. I think maybe a suicide attempt if anything.
Hi Jax49
From your post and link, how does the sheriff know he drank caustic fluids after the attacks??
Harrouff suffered a severe cut to his thumb that Snyder said is consistent with his hand sliding down a knife-blade. He also drank a "caustic fluid" after the attack, the sheriff said.
Officials would not identify the substance Harrouff consumed, but solvents and common household cleaners were kept in the victims' garage.
Harrouff's father Wade Harrouff :liar: has said his son might have had schizophrenia(I'm Calling BS)or another undiagnosed mental illness. He also said his son's liver was malfunctioning because of the fluid he drank. Medical privacy laws have prohibited investigators from discussing the younger Harrouff's health.
Are they stating because his liver was malfunctioning, that is the known reason????? hmm
Do they know something we do not? :thinking:
Thanks ~
jmo :moo:
Curious Me
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:wave: Hi! LE thought he took flakka and it didn't show up in the testing, but he might have been on steroids and trying not to take them which might cause roid rage. I think you'd get a lot out of watching some of the videos he posted on youtube beginning five months ago. JMO, he seemed to take on different personas and identities, and had mood swings.
Same x_files!! Not no but HELL NO!
I so wanted to say he needed a face mask like Hannibal Lector!
Thanks ~
jmo :moo:
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