IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #26

[SapphireSteel]

I think we should note that the 2:30 time is the time that the man stated he saw the girls not the time Tammy spoke to him. (Just being picky) because she said she didn't get to the lake until "around a quarter to 3"... :blushing:

So if she got to the lake at 2.45, fifteen minutes after the girls were (allegedly) seen biking on the trail, why did nobody find the bikes on the trail until 4?

Logic would dictate that you set off down the trail looking for them, if that's where they were 15 minutes earlier.

:waitasec:

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Then of course, there is the glaring possibility that someone's LYING. :waitasec:

I'm a bit sad that sleuthers wish to give up on the girls so early in the game. It has only been 6 months.

I'm also bemused (still) as to why folks are so confused at the timeline.

The girls got to the lake (or their bikes did) in 8 minutes.

It is completely doable. Even a turtle could bike a mile in 8 minutes.

:cow:

If TG's sighting is correct, though...the girls were seen at 12:23, but their bikes were already at the lake and abandoned by 12:27. 4 minutes. Unless you think TG is mistaken?

 

[SapphireSteel]

There is no confirmation of the girls bikes at the lake prior to 2:00. I think it is possible that the girls were abducted close to home, taken to 7 bridges and murdered and when the perp got back to town realized the bikes and purse were still in the truck and dumped them at the lake, or simply staged them at that time.

What about Mr G?

:waitasec:

 

[SapphireSteel]

If TG's sighting is correct, though...the girls were seen at 12:23, but there bikes were already at the lake and abandoned by 12:27. 4 minutes.

This alleged sighting has never been confirmed by LE.

Mr G's sighting has....in a round about way.

I'd rather doubt the unverified unsourced sighting, than that of an innocent witness who has taken the trouble to get verified and join WS to confirm that he wasn't mistaken.

:cow:

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

What about Mr G?

:waitasec:

You simply must discard the TG sighting if you know that the girls were seen on Brovan at 12:23. Absolutely no way you can abduct two girls, grab their bikes, drive a mile away and stage the bikes in four minutes.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

This alleged sighting has never been confirmed by LE.

Mr G's sighting has....in a round about way.

I'd rather doubt the unverified unsourced sighting, than that of an innocent witness who has taken the trouble to get verified and join WS to confirm that he wasn't mistaken.

:cow:

I believe LE has confirmed a 12:23 sighting though. I will find the link

 

[MNDad]

Then of course, there is the glaring possibility that someone's LYING. :waitasec:

I'm a bit sad that sleuthers wish to give up on the girls so early in the game. It has only been 6 months.

I'm also bemused (still) as to why folks are so confused at the timeline.

The girls got to the lake (or their bikes did) in 8 minutes.

It is completely doable. Even a turtle could bike a mile in 8 minutes.

:cow:

I always like to hear your input, but you do have a tendency to present your opinions as fact. There are plenty of reasons to be confused by the moving timeline and to discount others here is condescending. I know you have strong opinions and I even know what they are, but bottom line, you do not actually know if your assumptions are correct. As for the little stab at those of us who are finding this frustrating and are considering the possibility that are contributions will not help; we are not giving up on the girls. The girls are dead and there is no changing that. They do deserve justice and others deserve protection, but is it really wrong that some of us think that it may not come via this site? We want to participate and hopefully help, but we also need to be able to feel free to express our frustrations every now and then without someone accusing us of giving up on the girls.

 

[threecrazykids]

Then of course, there is the glaring possibility that someone's LYING. :waitasec:

I'm a bit sad that sleuthers wish to give up on the girls so early in the game. It has only been 6 months.

I'm also bemused (still) as to why folks are so confused at the timeline.

The girls got to the lake (or their bikes did) in 8 minutes.

It is completely doable. Even a turtle could bike a mile in 8 minutes.

:cow:

8 minutes with what two CONFIRMED BY LE times?:waitasec:

I personally think there is much more than 8 mins to play with but if you believe it did/could happen in 8 minutes which two times are you noting?

My eyes are wide open on the possibility of lies.

 

[threecrazykids]

So if she got to the lake at 2.45, fifteen minutes after the girls were (allegedly) seen biking on the trail, why did nobody find the bikes on the trail until 4?

Logic would dictate that you set off down the trail looking for them, if that's where they were 15 minutes earlier.

:waitasec:

Couldn't have asked it better.

 

[ShyViolet]

Snipped: "Rick Abben, chief deputy at the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office, said in a statement Thursday. "Both girls were last seen on July 13 at 12:15 p.m. riding their bicycles away from the Collins residence in Evansdale. We have information that the girls were seen approximately 12:23 p.m. on Brovan Blvd. and between 12:30 and 1:00 p.m. on Gilbert DR. in the area of Meyers Lake in Evansdale."

http://abcnews.go.com/news/t/blogEntry?id=17229511

 

[hollyblue]

Snipped: "Rick Abben, chief deputy at the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office, said in a statement Thursday. "Both girls were A last seen on July 13 at 12:15 p.m. riding their bicycles away from the Collins residence in Evansdale. We have B information that the girls were seen approximately 12:23 p.m. on Brovan Blvd. and between 12:30 and 1:00 p.m. on Gilbert DR. in the area of Meyers Lake in Evansdale."

http://abcnews.go.com/news/t/blogEntry?id=17229511

So A = last sighting still and B is info that they have rec'd tips on....if credible, one of these two would have been the last time seen. I'm also taking ABC with a grain of salt....always will because they get the info mixed up a large % of the time. Just, IMO.

IMO

 

[ShyViolet]

So A = last sighting still and B is info that they have rec'd tips on....if credible, one of these two would have been the last time seen. I'm also taking ABC with a grain of salt....always will because they get the info mixed up a large % of the time. Just, IMO.

IMO

Thanks, Hollyblue, I was not aware of ABC's unreliability. :blushing: I have seen this info published elsewhere, so I will try to find another source.

 

[carbuff]

Tammy's guy said he saw the girls at 2:30 according to this transcript.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

Snipped
And one man stepped forward and said, "Yes, I seen them going east on the bike trail at about 2:30."

So...we have a jogger who saw the bikes ALONE at 2:00 and we have another person who Tammy spoke with who saw the girls riding the trail at approx 30 mins later.

So...maybe the girls were there the entire time from the time they were seen on CCTV.

Mr. Gamerdinger said he saw bikes and no girls at his sighting...then again at 2, a jogger claims HE saw the bikes and no girls...and then at 2:30 this witness Tammy spoke with claims to have seen the girls.

OK...gonna throw this out there as yet ANOTHER possible scenario to chew on. Where could the 2 girls have been at the lake that wasn't out in the open for someone to be "hanging" with them?

Bathroom? Wooded area? Pavilion? Went for a ride in a vehicle for a bit?

Maybe the girls weren't even abducted and gone until later on in the afternoon. It is fully possible for the family to have driven by the lake and not seen the girls.

So...let's ASSUME that the girls were there at 2:30 and this witness was correct.

Now what theories open up?

ETA: Tammy states she was there at a quarter to 3.
"and this was at about a quarter to 3 -- and keep in mind the last they were seen was at 11:30 a.m., when they told mom they were going on the bike ride. So that is the last time they were for sure seen. And now, it`s going on to -- it`s getting close to being a quarter to 3."

So even from the time that the witness claims he saw them riding...Tammy and crew were there at approx 2:45ish so again, within 15 mins they aren't there...but 15 mins opens up enough time for someone to abduct someone and be gone.

This is very good thinking.

I'm going to assume for a minute that the girls had what they saw as good and sufficient reason for going to the lake and hanging out there in the first place. That they were just hanging out, leaving their bikes on the trail while they walk down by the water or whatever.

So if they were by the water at the gate at 2:30...

...and somebody accosted them there...

...could have put a knife to one girl's throat and told the other girl if she screams, her friend is dead...

...herded them to his van in Maiden Lane, zip tied them in the back, and drove away.

And everything becomes so much simpler. The kidnapper has a place to lurk, out of sight and close to where the bikes were found. The kidnapping only takes a couple of minutes, probably five minutes or so. If they were just meandering down toward the lake, randomly stopping, most if not all of the reported sightings are possible. The bikes and purse are accounted for, with no need for staging.

 

[Sere-nity]

At this point. In my opinion. Everything seems staged. Too perfect. Like someone is directing a big production. Even here there are conversations going and then all of a sudden, steering to implied "facts".

I am being asked to believe that two girls, one on a BMX, the other on a mountain bike, with 15 minutes left of their allowed ride would risk punishment and bike to a place where they allegedly were never at before, just to get kidnapped.

That the family would not first start out in their own neighborhood. I cannot recall any reporting of them searching their yard, the businesses, the parking lot, call their friends?... No the first thing they do is go in their car(s) and look at various parks?

Then just by chance TB happens to (guess?) take me to Meyers Lake... where they sit there from around 2:45 to 4 before the bikes are found.

This is a small lake, yes?

 

[ShyViolet]

Hope this is better. : ) From the Courier:

Snipped: "Abben also gave new details as to times and locations the girls were last seen July 13.

Deputies said the girls were seen at about 12:23 p.m. July 13 on Brovan Boulevard in Evansdale, and then spotted between 12:30 and 1 p.m. on Gilbert Drive not far from Meyers Lake. Their bikes and a purse were later found on a trial behind the lake. Authorities are asking that anyone in the area of Arbutus Avenue and Gilbert Drive that day notify law enforcement."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e5ee619c-fe0f-11e1-a74a-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[Marilynilpa]

What about Mr G?

:waitasec:

Never confirmed. The post you replied to said "confirmed" sighting.

 

[iamnotagolem]

What about Mr G?

:waitasec:

TG saw 2 bikes they have never been confirmed as the girls bikes by LE. TG also said he saw two people fishing it's quite possible that the people fishing were the owners of the bikes TG saw.

 

[Marilynilpa]

This alleged sighting has never been confirmed by LE.

Mr G's sighting has....in a round about way.

I'd rather doubt the unverified unsourced sighting, than that of an innocent witness who has taken the trouble to get verified and join WS to confirm that he wasn't mistaken.

:cow:

I respectfully disagree. LE has stated they have information that the girls were seen at 12:23 on Brovan. LE has never stated TG saw the girls' bikes, or ANY two bikes, on the trail at Meyers Lake.

If LE is referring to information about a 12:23 sighting, I don't feel that is an "unverified unsourced sighting."

No one is saying TG is lying. My point is that I don't believe his unverified sighting carries more weight than info released by LE. JMO. In this case, I err on the side of info released by LE. Again, JMO.

 

[carbuff]

So if she got to the lake at 2.45, fifteen minutes after the girls were (allegedly) seen biking on the trail, why did nobody find the bikes on the trail until 4?

Logic would dictate that you set off down the trail looking for them, if that's where they were 15 minutes earlier.

:waitasec:

I haven't seen anything that says they got out of the car to look. It all sounds like they were driving around, and didn't realize part of the lake wasn't visible from the street.

 

[Marilynilpa]

TG saw 2 bikes they have never been confirmed as the girls bikes by LE. TG also said he saw two people fishing it's quite possible that the people fishing were the owners of the bikes TG saw.

As soon as I heard about the two fisherman, I came to the same conclusion. It seems logical, and would explain why TG' sighting was never mentioned by LE.