Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[MissMalowe]

@Marie A @Arkay

I learn something new on every single case I follow here and learn or at least reminded of important lessons. This whole case has taught me a great deal. This conversation / topic alone has taught me that I should probably speak to my family/friends about this topic to let my wishes be known.

My whole extended family has had discussions many different times about our personal wishes regarding medical/palliative care, funeral & burial/cremation arrangements, existence/need for Wills, organ & tissue donation, etc and this topic (or ANY topics really that may apply only when being homicide victims) have never been discussed. I definitely think I need to perhaps bring this up, so at the very least, my own personal thoughts on those matters can be known, but ideally, everyone else's too.

One more example of important things I've learned on Abby & Libbys thread. Thankyou, ladies!

 

[AngTxGal]

That if they had DNA from the crime scene. We still don’t know.

One of the earliest cases where DNA was used to identify a criminal and link him to two rape/murder cases from Leicester, Britain. The suspect was Colin Pitchfork, this was the mid 1980’s. Men in the city were asked to give a DNA sample- I think cheek swab and over 5000 men came forward. A young man had confessed, he was exonerated and Pitchfork was convicted of both murders.
I have taught biology for many years and teach about this case. Interesting

 

[Jillyg]

I know what you’re saying & i hear ya, but 4th Amdmt jurisprudence is pretty well developed & the law is the law.

I didn’t mean to say anyone is “suspect” in the example I gave… just that LEO officers aren’t required to turn off their human powers of observation when interacting with the public. Otherwise there’d never be any such thing as a “hunch”!

As much as we cherish our individual rights in this country, we also have an interest in preventing crime & catching criminals

If it makes you feel any better about it….. big tech etc now have surveillance powers beyond Joseph Stalin’s wildest dreams. The owners of TikTok know more about our children than we ever will. It’s not necessarily a better or safer society if we keep LE locked in the last century…

In fact JMO I’ve come to believe that what kept this crime unsolved for so so long is LE (& the law overall)’s inability to keep up with the pace of tech’s growth & change
MOO

Tik tok isnt the govt and it's voluntary.

There is no "we have individual rights in this country, BUT" (save for the very few enumerated and litigated extremely narrow circumstances). The individual is respected over the collective. That's why we're a Republic and not a Democracy. "
(Source: the constitution)

Imo the what kept this crime unsolved for so has nothing to do we the people having too many rights.... it's the result the a series of screw-ups at the of the investigative chain. MOO.
And I can only speculate because it's sealed, in my opinion that's exactly one reason it's under seal. IMO when it finally comes to light, i think we'll see all the really bad decisions that went typical protocol and that hindered the investigation. Moo

But it's NOT because we have too many rights. IMHO

 

[Cocoapuff65]

There were no photographs taken of Bridge Guy.
What was taken was a video by Libby of Abby, BG was in the top corner. Libby did not take a video of BG alone. The video was split into individual images and some were chosen for still shots- Abby was cropped out. The pixels are so very low because it is a corner of a larger video image. When you watch the entire sequence you’ll see a dark object pop into one side and then out, that is Abby’s jacket as she moved in the video.
That is why you can’t blow up that BG footage or make it clearer.
I’ve always imagined it being a video that was shot not long after the still image of Abby on the bridge, but I’m not sure the sequence or the location on the bridge where the video and images were taken.
There is a YT creator that explains the process of what was done, pretty brave and insightful of Libby, and also heartbreaking

Listening to discussion on YT - I have no familiarity with the Dark Web, but I can imagine there would be a lot of $$ to be made posting or selling pics and videos, so they could be dealing with a ring of people. Seems like they are in early stages of putting things together and possibly others involved/witnesses, we have to be patient and let the process work.

 

[AngTxGal]

Tik tok isnt the govt and it's voluntary.

There is no "we have individual rights in this country, BUT" (save for the very few enumerated and litigated extremely narrow circumstances). The individual is respected over the collective. That's why we're a Republic and not a Democracy. "

Imo the what kept this crime unsolved for so has nothing to do we the people having too many rights.... it's the result the a series of screw-ups at the of the investigative chain. MOO.
And I can only speculate because it's sealed, in my opinion that's exactly one reason it's under seal. IMO when it finally comes to light, i think we'll see all the really bad decisions that went typical protocol and that hindered the investigation. Moo

But it's NOT because we have too many rights. IMHO

I don’t think the case took over 5 years because of screw ups, I think LE and parents were naive about the risks of social media to child as victims of predators.
Our two teens are the same age of Abby and Libby, at 14 my kids got their first phone. We went to child/parent workshops to help us learn Apps for privacy and parental control. Kids do not see the risks and they cannot imagine predators wearing disguises that look like peers.
This case could have caused enormous Public Awareness about children and social media but LE told the public social media was unrelated. Predators of women and children have found the internet, social media, and gaming consoles like minors at the mall, on playgrounds, arcades, and parks alone.
There is no place where a child can go without parental eyes, not even on their iPAD in their own room.

 

[Jillyg]

I think a huge indicator that RA wasn't involved in the KK thing is his seemingly unawareness of her cell phone. Imo

If he had known, he'd have known about her habit of live streaming. He may not have picked her at random had he known either. This lends to this being a random chance and not a previous known. Imo

If he had known how involved with her phone she was, i think he may have been hyper aware that she had one. Moo.

Of course also..he could have tried to find it and not been successful.

 

[Jillyg]

I don’t think the case took over 5 years because of screw ups, I think LE and parents were naive about the risks of social media to child as victims of predators.
Our two teens are the same age of Abby and Libby, at 14 my kids got their first phone. We went to child/parent workshops to help us learn Apps for privacy and parental control. Kids do not see the risks and they cannot imagine predators wearing disguises that look like peers.
This case could have caused enormous Public Awareness about children and social media but LE told the public social media was unrelated. Predators of women and children have found the internet, social media, and gaming consoles like minors at the mall, on playgrounds, arcades, and parks alone.
There is no place where a child can go without parental eyes, not even on their iPAD in their own room.

Woaaa wait. The police told the public soc media wasn't involved?
Is there a link somewhere?
How did I miss that?

 

[Rosegold68]

@Jillyg good point!! she was filming him approach....was he not looking up watching them at that point? phones would be the first thing to take if he had a posting history with her or a digital trail leading to the girls.

 

[mrtnira]

Listening to Gray Hughes Investigates (YouTube channel), he discusses in a general way the attempted destruction of files by uninstalling and reinstalling an application. A quick internet search will reveal commercial recovery methods and services, and I would suspect (analytical qualifier) that government offices may have more powerful recovery methods than those which are publicly or commercially available. With that, we have no idea what is going to come up during the trial. Things people thought were lost may become things people have found.

 

[AngTxGal]

Woaaa wait. The police told the public soc media wasn't involved?
Is there a link somewhere?
How did I miss that?

This case was not called the Snapchat Murders because it was believed the girls were lured to the bridge. It took on this name I believe due to the image of Abby posted to social media by Libby on the day they went missing, and the video and audio she recorded.
Many in True Crime believed the case was relate to social media, but the family was clearly told social media was not related To the murders.
There are interviews with Kelsi where she talks about this.
The about face regarding social media links only came when KK was arrested, his fake profile was linked to Libby’s social media.

 

[mrtnira]

This case was not called the Snapchat Murders because it was believed the girls were lured to the bridge. It took on this name I believe due to the image of Abby posted to social media by Libby on the day they went missing, and the video and audio she recorded.
Many in True Crime believed the case was relate to social media, but the family was clearly told social media was not related To the murders.
There are interviews with Kelsi where she talks about this.
The about face regarding social media links only came when KK was arrested, his fake profile was linked to Libby’s social media.

The initial statements may have been based upon proximity to the event, where the event did not appear immediately related to social media. As information (evidence and inference) is developed over time, then the analytical model changes.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

Two Questions.

1.) What might have initially tipped LE to RA’s identity?
a. DNA - A blood relative (cousin, daughter, etc.) took a DNA test and LE traced back his family tree.
b. He anonymously posted one of the posed shots on one of those sites and LE traced it back to him.
c. KK gave him up.
d. ???

2.) What incriminating evidence might LE have found as a result of the search at RA’s home?
a. The posed shots of the victims on a thumb drive or in the Recently Viewed file on his phone, computer or IPad.
b. The two items of clothing with the victims’ blood.
c. A knife with a spot of the victims’ blood.
d. ???

 

[mrtnira]

Two Questions.

1.) What might have initially tipped LE to RA’s identity?
a. DNA - A blood relative (cousin, daughter, etc.) took a DNA test and LE traced back his family tree.
b. He anonymously posted one of the posed shots on one of those sites and LE traced it back to him.
c. KK gave him up.
d. ???

2.) What incriminating evidence might LE have found as a result of the search at RA’s home?
a. The posed shots of the victims on a thumb drive or in the Recently Viewed file on his phone, computer or IPad.
b. The two items of clothing with the victims’ blood.
c. A knife with a spot of the victims’ blood.
d. ???

What happens if there is an interplay between many of the variables you list? Sometimes it's not just one thing, but a series of things which vector people to their target.

 

[AngTxGal]

BBM

This is what sets us apart as a country.

It is a always a balance, individual rights and privacy, or the individual giving up something for the sake of the collective. There are few places where the rights of the individual are held above the collective than where I am, rural Texas. I relate to Delphi, you think you know your neighbors and care for and trust each other.
When one group think they know what is best for another is when you run into issues. Here we think we have things handled, don’t come here thinking you know better, especially if you talk faster and are from the city. That wouldn’t work

 

[DrQ]

IMHO It was always my suspicion that it was some one in the small community rather than a stranger. Partially because they were not abducted. Instead, until all the questions are answered we won't know why this deeply sad and senseless murder of two brave young girls was committed. My heart goes out to their families. I guess that is why they call it the unusual suspects.

 

[AngTxGal]

Two Questions.

1.) What might have initially tipped LE to RA’s identity?
a. DNA - A blood relative (cousin, daughter, etc.) took a DNA test and LE traced back his family tree.
b. He anonymously posted one of the posed shots on one of those sites and LE traced it back to him.
c. KK gave him up.
d. ???

2.) What incriminating evidence might LE have found as a result of the search at RA’s home?
a. The posed shots of the victims on a thumb drive or in the Recently Viewed file on his phone, computer or IPad.
b. The two items of clothing with the victims’ blood.
c. A knife with a spot of the victims’ blood.
d. ???

I think several are possible, but this makes the most sense to me…
1) LE was tipped to look at RA because…
C) KK gave info regarding communications and an item that was thrown into the river- where they searched. A gun or knife

2) Evidence found at RAs home that is incriminating could be…
D) a link to an item named or found using a tip from KK was found in RA’s home or property. Bullets for a gun, a picture of him with the gun or a knife found in the river.

 

[AngTxGal]

It's not a suicide pact. Which is why the founders included a way to amend it. Not ignore it.

The US Constitution was the foundation for our laws, it isn’t the amendments that make it alive, it is the case law. When the constitution is tested there are cases that guide the country. There are thousands of them…
We know these famous cases: Brown vs Board of Education 1954, Miranda vs. Arizona 1966, Roe v Wade 1973

 

[JLouiseB]

I think several are possible, but this makes the most sense to me…
1) LE was tipped to look at RA because…
C) KK gave info regarding communications and an item that was thrown into the river- where they searched. A gun or knife

2) Evidence found at RAs home that is incriminating could be…
D) a link to an item named or found using a tip from KK was found in RA’s home or property. Bullets for a gun, a picture of him with the gun or a knife found in the river.

I agree that this the simplest and most likely in light of the evidence and the story lines up with some less vetted reports, which are likely going to be released soon.

 

[Yuletide]

Two Questions.

1.) What might have initially tipped LE to RA’s identity?
a. DNA - A blood relative (cousin, daughter, etc.) took a DNA test and LE traced back his family tree.
b. He anonymously posted one of the posed shots on one of those sites and LE traced it back to him.
c. KK gave him up.
d. ???

2.) What incriminating evidence might LE have found as a result of the search at RA’s home?
a. The posed shots of the victims on a thumb drive or in the Recently Viewed file on his phone, computer or IPad.
b. The two items of clothing with the victims’ blood.
c. A knife with a spot of the victims’ blood.
d. ???

I have pondered that perhaps it was a combination of things. Perhaps a hair off his clothes belonged to his daughter and that hair ended up on one of the victims. Them maybe she submitted for genealogy and it tied the knot. Something like that. Or KK rolled on him.

 

[TL4S]

Two Questions.

1.) What might have initially tipped LE to RA’s identity?
a. DNA - A blood relative (cousin, daughter, etc.) took a DNA test and LE traced back his family tree.
b. He anonymously posted one of the posed shots on one of those sites and LE traced it back to him.
c. KK gave him up.
d. ???

2.) What incriminating evidence might LE have found as a result of the search at RA’s home?
a. The posed shots of the victims on a thumb drive or in the Recently Viewed file on his phone, computer or IPad.
b. The two items of clothing with the victims’ blood.
c. A knife with a spot of the victims’ blood.
d. ???

1.) d. Apparently, nobody, including LE, knew that A_shots had a profile on Yellow until somewhere between Dec. 2021 and April 2022. Where was the digital trail? Seemingly not through KAK's devices. Maybe a username traced back to RA's house instead, per subpoena.

2.) d. Reddish-brown hair was in the suspect description between both sketches. That detail never changed, so I suspect they had a hair sample. I also think there was animal hair at the CS. So matching hair samples, digital evidence, and perhaps a personal item belonging to one of the girls, or the remnants of such, was found. Those are my guesses.