Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

[Barbieshell]

You’re right. The video and the photos give the impression Libby was standing right in front of BG, holding the cellphone in front of her face while videoing him. But as you say the distance was about 60 feet so what we see has been substantially enlarged.

As LE have the entire video, they know the before and after. But I recall an early Dr Phil show featuring the family and BP said she believed Libby held the cellphone in her hand down beside her, surreptitiously making a sort of sweeping motion which managed to capture a brief glimpse of him. If so, the original video taken during movement was even more blurry than if the camera had been held steady.

Aw god, I'd always wondered why the picture quality was so blurry / bad - now I know. What a shame it just couldn't have been held still, even if they'd made out it was just for a quick photo (but got him in the shot etc).
Thinking on though if they had, he may have seen and would have grabbed the phone and took it with him.

 

[ReadySet]

So maybe those who believe they can tell what BG looks like (his face) could do a little experiment: estimate where 60 ft. away is from your house, wait until someone walking down your street hits that spot, can you accurately describe their face?
Or ask someone to stand 60 ft away. How well can you make out their features?
Does it make a difference if you know them or if they're a stranger?
I know from 60 ft. I couldn't make out my husbands features, and I know him better than anyone.
But you know how I could tell it was him? His build, his height, his gait, and how he moved.
Which is exactly what we've been asked to do. Unless you personally know BG, and even then, you shouldn't concentrate on his face.
But if it's someone you know, you could possibly tell by the characteristics I noted above.
ETA: To make the experiment more realistic, you have to view the person from a video someone took.

You’re right. The video and the photos give the impression Libby was standing right in front of BG, holding the cellphone in front of her face while videoing him. But as you say the distance was about 60 feet so what we see has been substantially enlarged.

As LE have the entire video, they know the before and after. But I recall an early Dr Phil show featuring the family and BP said she believed Libby held the cellphone in her hand down beside her, surreptitiously making a sort of sweeping motion which managed to capture a brief glimpse of him. If so, the original video taken during movement was even more blurry than if the camera had been held steady.

 

[Justice101]

following new thread....

 

[ShamelessObserver]

Following

 

[stattlich1]

Not knowing the details of the case, for me, I'll hang tough with LE, confident they are doing all they can.

We need a break for these girls. They are always on my mind. Seldom a day goes by that I don't think of them. It's just not right. Hopefully someone steps up with the tip needed to bust this guy.

 

[Skully]

Not knowing the details of the case, for me, I'll hang tough with LE, confident they are doing all they can.

We need a break for these girls. They are always on my mind. Seldom a day goes by that I don't think of them. It's just not right. Hopefully someone steps up with the tip needed to bust this guy.

Some times you just don't have what you need to make an arrest and it is not for lack of trying. I feel for these guys (LE). That one piece of the puzzle is someone recognizing BG and turning in that tip.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

Who thinks LE know BG’s name and the fact he did it? They just don’t have that evidence to nail him...

I wouldn’t be too surprised if they know exactly who BG is and even have him under constant surveillance

moo

 

[stattlich1]

Who thinks LE know BG’s name and the fact he did it? They just don’t have that evidence to nail him...

I wouldn’t be too surprised if they know exactly who BG is and even have him under constant surveillance

moo

I'm not being a smarty pants, but how would this work? I thought the same at one time, that LE might know the perp, but not have enough evidence to go to court.

So, how would they know? How would they know who it is, but NOT have the evidence to convict?

 

[Angels27]

Someone earlier on here said this whole thing screams “FAKE COP.” I couldn’t agree more.

The calmly demanding tone of his voice and the fact that it appears as tho the girls complied. He’s probably done it before. It reminds me of the BTK killer. He posed as some kind of public ‘officer,’ fancied himself “official” blah blah blah. I get the same vibe from this guy. BTK was some ugly guy, married, probably hated his life, hated women. I don’t know what he claimed his motive was but it was probably a need for power since he had none in his real life. Then he took his anger and frustrations out on females, youth, and beauty, the things a powerless guy can rarely have in life. Also, he might be ex-military. I can easily see him saying something like, “no one’s allowed on this bridge.” I wonder what else was on that audio recording.

I don’t think one of us in here would comply with some guy who walks up and and demands “DTH” even if he had a gun. I always tell my young cousins always run, never comply no matter what weapon a perp has, because they can always dig a bullet out of you or sew up a knife wound, but they can’t bring you back if you’re dead.

Most of us would know that, but maybe not two young scared girls. And he probably knew that.

At first I was thinking some loner young guy playing a violent game in woods, trying to test his mental aptitude against that of seasoned professionals. I don’t know what to think anymore.

 

[Angels27]

https://www.wrtv.com/news/delphi/the-delphi-murders-four-years-later-and-still-no-arrests

Scroll way down to still of BG. What I’m referring to is very clear in these pics.

I noticed in the still photo of BG it looks like he’s got some hard zigzaggy looking very long like 2-3 foot tool down his right leg and maybe a large square or oval metal thing under pants in left leg. That could be an iPad or a shovel? God, I wonder if it’s a tripod on right and some kind of camera on left. Doubt it bc those wouldn’t be zigzaggy. Anyone know what kind of tool would be?

It could also just be weird shadows on the recording. I’m not sure.

Also, I don’t think his right hand is in pocket, as LE suggests. It’s much higher than left and than pocket top and looks like he’s holding onto something pretty big. Maybe a bag with a gun, or a gun or knife under a sweatshirt.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

I'm not being a smarty pants, but how would this work? I thought the same at one time, that LE might know the perp, but not have enough evidence to go to court.

So, how would they know? How would they know who it is, but NOT have the evidence to convict?

Beyond reasonable doubt threshold

 

[Charlot123]

Some times you just don't have what you need to make an arrest and it is not for lack of trying. I feel for these guys (LE). That one piece of the puzzle is someone recognizing BG and turning in that tip.

You know, life is hard. I think there is a partner, who might be suspecting something. But what if the person is sick, and needs treatment (MS comes to mind), and the perp is the primary insurance holder? Even this could be enough to silence someone.

 

[Angels27]

I'm not being a smarty pants, but how would this work? I thought the same at one time, that LE might know the perp, but not have enough evidence to go to court.

So, how would they know? How would they know who it is, but NOT have the evidence to convict?

Easy. Knowing and proving in court are two different things. Sheistery defense attorneys can turn anything around n double talk til the cows come home. Maybe prints or DNA are partial, maybe a witness has a background that he’ll tear apart in court. Look at The OJ case. Case in point. Enough said. Happens every day. Talk to any cop, he’ll tell you it’s very hard to get a conviction even if you have a ton of evidence. Lawyers make a living off of lying. I never invest in stocks I don’t believe in like Philip Morris or weed stocks, even if I could make a killing on them. Wish defense attorneys were the same. It’s like selling your soul to the devil.

Another thing is that LE is required to check up on all these other leads of which I’m sure they got many, otherwise a defense attorney can use that against them in court, and that all takes time. They need to clear every other suspect or that can really muddy the waters at trial.

 

[Irishdetective]

Hi 1st post on Delphi. Just a bit about myself. I’m LE my rank is detective with training in profiling and crime scene technician.

I live in Dublin Ireland and have followed this case since day one.

My breakdown of day, scene and who they are looking for. Kids were off school getting dropped to the trail. Bridge guy knew this, and with the weather been fine he was assured kids would be there hanging out.

He in-counters poor Abby And Libby and from that, moment they were dead they had no chance unless someone intervened.

They may know him but with the multiple layers he was unrecognisable to them in a state of panic.

He forced them down the hill and I would be pretty certain he had a gun to control them, if they split and go for it he has a problem, if they scream he has a problem only thing that makes you afraid is a gun because other than that you know one of you has a good shot of going to get help.
He gets them down to near the stream and this is when they take their chance and go for it across the shallow area.

They lose trainers but he catches one across the stream, most likely Libby. Abby is the type of personality who followed true crime intensely and knew if she did not go back she would never see her pal again. She died a Superhero trying to protect her friend.
Will go into deaths and signatures in another post.

Key Key Points.

suspect either currently lives in Delphi or within a 30miles radius.
He knows the police know it’s him but he is being super care every step he takes ( disposing of dna in public places or garbage. )
He was in the room during press conference, that’s why the chief was furious, he was sitting there smirking knowing they could do nothing.
Last but not least FIND THE DRIVER OF THE CAR AT THE CPS BUILDING THAT WAS ABANDONED AND YOU FIND YOUR KILLER,

I personally believe he did not want to kill them there, I believe he wanted to abduct them to his safe place via car.
Your looking for the guy that blends in, probably very active in community till this happened.

He knows police know it’s him they just need that tiny piece of information to nail him. He will be following this day and night. His partner or people who share a home with him will have noticed the change in him but put it down to something else.
Clothes worn by BG will have been immediately destroyed as they link him to this tragic event.

He will be caught he will drop that guard or good guy family persona eventually and the whole lot will come crashing down.

Next post I will discuss the signature he left and some more intimate details of crime seen. His past crimes and is he. Serial killer.

Any Questions welcome.

 

[Skully]

I'm not being a smarty pants, but how would this work? I thought the same at one time, that LE might know the perp, but not have enough evidence to go to court.

So, how would they know? How would they know who it is, but NOT have the evidence to convict?

So I don't know if this is the case or not, but you wanted an example and this one comes to mind. What if, they interviewed someone that was pretty sure who BG was but had no proof. So they investigate him and find things that make him a possible candidate, like a history of violence, some circumstantial evidence or he has motive, but you don't have enough DNA or a positive ID of him by anyone that saw BG that day. Let's say he has an alibi, but no one to back it up. You are pretty sure he could be your guy, but you don't have any solid evidence to arrest him. You interview him, but he isn't giving you anything. You have to get the prosecutor to agree to the arrest too, maybe it goes to a Grand Jury to see if you have enough to arrest him. In a case like this, when you don't have DNA or something that connects him directly to the crime you have to something solid to go forward. But you think he is the guy. You have to wait. You get one shot at him in court, one. I know they did say they have DNA, and a fingerprint IIRC, but is it enough DNA that gives you a complete profile and he is the only person who could have committed this crime? Is the print clear? IDK

I think they thought they had a good suspect(s) but for what ever reason it bottomed out. Now I think they have to wait, because what ever they have, is not enough to go forward, like putting the DNA into CODIS or getting that family tree with Parabon. I honestly don't know if they have a POI or not. It's hard to tell. But it's four years and no one is arrested, so IDK.

I want to add, that is how it works in FL.

 

[Skully]

Welcome Irish Detective!

 

[Yemelyan]

Beyond reasonable doubt threshold

You don't need beyond reasonable doubt to ask someone to come in for questioning or find some other pretext under which to arrest them so you can interrogate them further. If LE really had someone in mind for this, I would think they would make that person's life very difficult. There might be a person out there who has been brought in a couple of times under different scenarios so detectives can take a crack at seeing what he might say about February 13th, 2017.

Two different members of the investigative team have said that they have, at one time or another, had a list in mind of either 2 dozen to 2 or 3 individuals who checked some of the boxes. But no one so far has been more likely than not, in their opinion, to be "the one" or check all of the boxes. I don't think they are mis-representing this because it's not exactly a great thing to put out there. A future defense attorney can definitely go back to these statements and say "but you had 2 or 3 people who you thought might have done it, how much did you investigate them? I can show that you didn't." LE could easily say nothing but they've chosen to reveal how much they don't know. My opinion is that they don't yet have a specific suspect in mind.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Firstly, I will say that I don’t necessarily believe anybody at the trails saw the killer that day. Who gave the information for the young guy sketch, no one knows. Where and when and what that person saw they thought needed reporting, we don’t know.
Secondly, something I think people fail to realize about the video on the bridge are the very severe shadows brought on by the sun’s angle. Add into that the poor quality of the image. If you look at the video almost frame by frame you will see the shadow shift dramatically and sometimes disappear between frames. The goatee we all thought we saw in the still photo for two years, disappears in many video frames. I think it’s a shadow. After being conditioned for two years to see the older guy, it was hard to let it go, but I now believe the younger sketch is closer to the guy on the bridge. The question then becomes, why did LE allow us to believe BG was an older guy for two years.
My thoughts. My theory of what happened is what I referenced earlier.

IF, I remember correctly - i think in the very first thread and soon after the murders, a woman came forward and said she saw an elderly couple that day near the bridge as well as some man. The actual witnesses name if I remember correctly was reported at that time...perhaps a sketch was done as a result of her citing. I will try to find the post when I have time.
Anyone else remember this?

 

[MistyWaters]

Someone earlier on here said this whole thing screams “FAKE COP.” I couldn’t agree more.

The calmly demanding tone of his voice and the fact that it appears as tho the girls complied. He’s probably done it before. It reminds me of the BTK killer. He posed as some kind of public ‘officer,’ fancied himself “official” blah blah blah. I get the same vibe from this guy. BTK was some ugly guy, married, probably hated his life, hated women. I don’t know what he claimed his motive was but it was probably a need for power since he had none in his real life. Then he took his anger and frustrations out on females, youth, and beauty, the things a powerless guy can rarely have in life. Also, he might be ex-military. I can easily see him saying something like, “no one’s allowed on this bridge.” I wonder what else was on that audio recording.

I don’t think one of us in here would comply with some guy who walks up and and demands “DTH” even if he had a gun. I always tell my young cousins always run, never comply no matter what weapon a perp has, because they can always dig a bullet out of you or sew up a knife wound, but they can’t bring you back if you’re dead.

Most of us would know that, but maybe not two young scared girls. And he probably knew that.

At first I was thinking some loner young guy playing a violent game in woods, trying to test his mental aptitude against that of seasoned professionals. I don’t know what to think anymore.

I could be wrong but I’ve never felt the killer was impersonating an officer or anyone in a position of authority. The audio Libby recorded surely must contain more than 4 words even if the clip was short and so I think LE is aware of details regarding his approach. If he was impersonating a police officer surely that would’ve warranted more than a “be cautious, be aware of your surroundings etc” warning to the public. JMO

 

[somequestions]

You know, life is hard. I think there is a partner, who might be suspecting something. But what if the person is sick, and needs treatment (MS comes to mind), and the perp is the primary insurance holder? Even this could be enough to silence someone.

I was looking up problems with feeling the cold on a person's hands or feet and MS actually came up. Then you have the theory that he did not move the bodies, but did move clothes to the creek and it kind of makes sense. But there could be numerous other reasons like the killer just did not care about the cold water in the creek or there was some type of sexual fantasy with the bodies.