Sniff tests, hair decomp, really so conclusive? Fence sitters thread

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Yeah, now question the cadaver dogs, what will it be next... These dogs have more senses in one of their toes than Casey has brains in her head.. They are TRAINED obiviously if they weren't doing a good job, they wouldn't be a cadaver dog. This case is starting to infuriate me more than Scott Peterson and OJ combined, well it's getting there more everyday.
 
Cadaver dogs already been questioned Straitfan!

Now questioning the "air testing". By the way, if you Google University of Tennessee Body Farm, you will find the type of information you are looking for but probably not the right answers you hope for.
 
Thank you, JBean. Oh, they have done both of those things many times already. But I've never hit an alert button on anyone before and just don't do it. I just leave the board before doing that, it's not worth it. If the moderators of a website care they can easily see what certain people are doing repeatedly on the threads to other users. These posters are continually off topic on this thread. But what can you do? Anyway, onward....
The mods are not on every thread nor do they read every post. That is why there is an alert button.
 
It is just a matter of time before we no longer have to guess at the truth or the facts. All that is hidden will one day be revealed.

That's true, the truth will remain. It's not going anywhere.
I do hope it gets revealed.
 
This whole family has not acted normal in this situation. Really Casey's parents aren't much help either. I am really begininng to wonder who is covering for who.
 
Any evidence certainly will have to be scrutinized in court--not least of all the "cadaver dog" evidence. Who says there is any scientific accuracy in that at all? I know it's a popular notion and nice to believe, but who says how accurate it is at all? I mean, the dogs alerted on areas of the back yard. There wasn't anything there. So then, the rationalization that's applied is that the corpse must have been there but was moved, or someone touched a corpse and touched that area, etc, etc. There's some explanation regardless how the dogs alert. Well if it goes to court, hopefully we will hear what, if any, research has been done to determine the rate of accuracy of cadaver dogs noses. It's funny how quick some people are to just accept whatever new technique is used, though, no questions asked.

OK, I'll play.

As others have said, Cadaver dogs are well documented in court. As are all types of trained, certified search dogs.

However the dogs cannot give testimony in court. Instead what they do is open up an area of investigation, or a probable cause for LE to investigate something deeper. In court Cadaver Dog findings are always backed up by other corraborating evidence. This is the same for all types of search animals. A drug sniffing dog will give probable cause to search an area, but yu cannot get a drug conviction just on teh dogs nose. It needs to be backed up by other clear evidence at trial.

In this case we have two solid hits by the dogs on the car trunk. That may not be much in and of itself. And certainly would not convict someone. But when added to and corraborated by;

- Cindy's excited utterance in the initial 911 call, "It smells like a dead body". Excited Utterances are given a huge amount of credibility in court.

- The initial Investigator clearly described the smell of human decomposition in the vehicles trunk. The investigator testified to this in court while under oath. He also confirmed to the court that he had encountered this particular smell in the past, in the course of his duties as a homicide investigator. His experiences in this area are well and clearly documented, making him an extremely credible witness.

- The tow yard manager noted the smell when he was interviewed by LE. While by no means an expert, he was able to directly relate the smell to one that he had encountered previously in a situation that involved a dead and decomposing human corpse (the 5 day old suicide in a diferent car).

- a reluctant witness does admit to investigators that yes, he did notice the smell at the same time as the tow yard manager, and they did have some discussion of it.

- The air tests done at the body farm showed strong traces of the specific patern of chemical byproducts found in human decomposition. While a new test, which has not yet been fully used in court, it does use well proven technology, procedures and principles, that have been used many time in courts. While it is probably not enough and sufficiently unproven to be used as the soul source of evidence, it is more then sufficient to act as a secondary coraborating piece of evidence that supports other information, such as witness statements, search dog hits and lab test results.

- Stains showing bodily fluids discharged during decomposition of a human body are found in the trunk. This test is done by the FBI crime lab. Commonly recognized as one of, if not the, best in the world. Almost unimpeachable in court, absent a clear example of gross negligence. The witness statements, dog hits and independent air tests pretty much rule out any such negligence or error.

- human hair found in the trunk shows the bacterial ring commonly only observed post mortem.

So right there is 7 completely independent items that coraborate and back up the cadaver dogs hits. Question the dogs capabilities all you want, but the results will not change. the dogs detected death in that trunk, the humans detected death in that trunk, and the lab tests detected death in that trunk. 2 dogs, 4 humans, and at least 3 lab diferent lab tests. Undermining one of these elements will not make the others go away.
 
Cadaver dogs already been questioned Straitfan!

Now questioning the "air testing". By the way, if you Google University of Tennessee Body Farm, you will find the type of information you are looking for but probably not the right answers you hope for.

Not sure what you mean as I am by no means questioning either the dogs nor the "air testing".... I am sure there is scientific proof behind what they do... Most people wouldn't have to worry about either the dogs/air testing if they didn't do anything :(
 
Straitfan,
I meant nothing towards you.....I was saying that the OP has already questioned the cadaver dogs and is now questioning the air tests.....not you at all friend!
 
If Casey killed Caylee, I just can't see her being smart enough to hid the body as well as she has. If she has a drug problem then I can tell you they are not known to cover their tracks well.
 
All I have to say is this...
Cadaver dogs I believe...they can have an accuracy of 65-95% depending on the dog and the handler.
Body Farm, I can believe that too. Chemical decomposition is real and detectable.
But I don't trust the terms used by LE such as "likely" and "apparently" I always thought that DNA either was or wasn't. I don't like the loose terminology they use.
Also the chloroform thing, if Casey did intend on harming her child, why the heck use Cholorform?? That stuff is used to take down someone big! Not a child. Seriously, you can rag someone 200lbs with that stuff and it's lights out in 10 seconds...or less
There are plenty of over the counter and illegal drugs that would have been easier to get.
Maybe she was a part of or witness to someone else being murdered and that's why she's not talking. It's not entirely impossible.
Anyway...don't start throwing stones at me or anything...it's all IMO
 
When and if any of the above "evidence" is actually admitted as evidence in a court case, then we will get to hear the details of what evidence actually has been collected, how it was obtained, etc. So far, all formal statements from the authorities have been couched in qualifying statements such as "could suggest", "may be" etc. It's the media who have claimed that conclusive evidence has been found. We won't know until charges are actually brought and any evidence is presented in court.
 
Seagull,
With respect, law enforcement are using terms such as "could suggest" and "may be" because they are holding evidence not yet released. Law enforcement will not verify any evidence until they are ready to release it or use it in a court of law.
 
Trapshooter, no problem :) This case must be getting to me tonight (again) never seen nothing like it. Just hoping the LE brings it to court , Caylee is found and it comes to an end so these unbelievable lies will stop, this sweet baby never deserved any of this.. Have a great nite :)
 
couldn't agree with you more about the chloroform, tiffertots. No need to try to get chloroform to sedate a child, a sicko who would do that could use any easily obtained over the counter or prescription medication for that purpose. If anyone who was using Casey's car actually was carrying chloroform around in the trunk, I've asked (and I've seen other people posting the same), whether this might have been for use in drug manufacturing or even check washing or how else it might be used. Someone posted on another thread that chloroform can be used in meth production. Hope the child was not accidentally harmed by exposure to fumes or something.
 
All I have to say is this...
Cadaver dogs I believe...they can have an accuracy of 65-95% depending on the dog and the handler.
Body Farm, I can believe that too. Chemical decomposition is real and detectable.
But I don't trust the terms used by LE such as "likely" and "apparently" I always thought that DNA either was or wasn't. I don't like the loose terminology they use.
Also the chloroform thing, if Casey did intend on harming her child, why the heck use Cholorform?? That stuff is used to take down someone big! Not a child. Seriously, you can rag someone 200lbs with that stuff and it's lights out in 10 seconds...or less
There are plenty of over the counter and illegal drugs that would have been easier to get.
Maybe she was a part of or witness to someone else being murdered and that's why she's not talking. It's not entirely impossible.
Anyway...don't start throwing stones at me or anything...it's all IMO


I too have wondered about the use of chloroform. I am thinking that whatever they used to clean the trunk mixed and made chloroform. JMO
 
When and if any of the above "evidence" is actually admitted as evidence in a court case, then we will get to hear the details of what evidence actually has been collected, how it was obtained, etc. So far, all formal statements from the authorities have been couched in qualifying statements such as "could suggest", "may be" etc. It's the media who have claimed that conclusive evidence has been found. We won't know until charges are actually brought and any evidence is presented in court.
LE is being careful not to show their hand IMO. I respect the fact that they have tried so hard to find that child before they release any information to the public.
 
Seagull,
With respect, law enforcement are using terms such as "could suggest" and "may be" because they are holding evidence not yet released. Law enforcement will not verify any evidence until they are ready to release it or use it in a court of law.
Sorry TS...didn't see your post.
 
If Casey killed Caylee, I just can't see her being smart enough to hid the body as well as she has. If she has a drug problem then I can tell you they are not known to cover their tracks well.

that's a very good point.
 
All I have to say is this...
Cadaver dogs I believe...they can have an accuracy of 65-95% depending on the dog and the handler.
Body Farm, I can believe that too. Chemical decomposition is real and detectable.
But I don't trust the terms used by LE such as "likely" and "apparently" I always thought that DNA either was or wasn't. I don't like the loose terminology they use.
Also the chloroform thing, if Casey did intend on harming her child, why the heck use Cholorform?? That stuff is used to take down someone big! Not a child. Seriously, you can rag someone 200lbs with that stuff and it's lights out in 10 seconds...or less
There are plenty of over the counter and illegal drugs that would have been easier to get.
Maybe she was a part of or witness to someone else being murdered and that's why she's not talking. It's not entirely impossible.
Anyway...don't start throwing stones at me or anything...it's all IMO

I think as other posters have already well covered, LE is holding alot back as they well should.

Casey may get out on bond, but IMO if I were her? I'd feel safer in jail!

Lets not forget the cell phone picture of Caylee taken by the hairdresser with the bruises.

IMOO, from what we know, Casey had a lot of anger...there was a big fight the last day Caylee was seen...liars are huge cowards. Cowards take their anger and frustration on people they CAN hurt and get away with it...little helpless people that they are probably deathly jealous of.

Whatever defense leanings I want to dredge up...I just remember we are dealing with a shameless liar who would rob her family and friends blind...thats my starting point.
 
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