Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[wastelands_]

@KylaBRussell

#NEW: A tool mark firearm expert was called to testify in day 7 of the #Delphi double murders case. She testified to concluding a pistol taken from Richard Allen’s home cycled the cartridge found near the crime scene in 2017.It’s important to note the cartridge found at the scene had been cycled through a firearm, but the cartridge she used to test was fired.



12:48 PM · Oct 25, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849855552568033539

Lots of talk about RA jacket. If I'm correct it was a (CARHARTT JACKET),And if you are familiar with this brand and have ever washed it in your home washing machine then you know it can take a toll on your washer. Also if the jacket had blood on it, it would stain it. Its very hard to get stains out of that material, almost like a heavy canvas. No mention of blood on shoes. And if he had blood on him it most surely would have transferred to areas in his car. So much time has gone by. who knows.
I'm still scratching my head that they didn't bag those girls hands and collect evidence from under their nails.

There’s autopsy “drawings” where the hands are bagged though

 

[twall]

It doesn’t seem to be impressing anyone nor accomplishing anything.

Defense attorneys are going to defend. He's not doing it for brownie points. It's his job. NM may be the same way when it's his turn to cross. Time will tell. JMO

 

[TristanP]

oh!

Maybe one of yours found at flea markets is that ONE we need from RA?!?!

Maybe so…I’ll turn it in to Dulin and in about 5 years we can find out if it’s useful!

 

[sunshineray]

Funny Kevin didn't say the Jury was lost already during the State's witness direct.

Maybe because the jury is seen by these two particular courtroom viewers, Aine and Kevin, as already being more engaged with NMcL's relaxed and to the point style and not at all with Rossi's volatile and abrasive style? Just a thought.

 

[snooptroop88]

Maybe so…I’ll turn it in to Dulin and in about 5 years we can find out if it’s useful!

And unlike Richard Allen, at least you'll have one to turn in!

 

[SouthEnd]

Maybe so…I’ll turn it in to Dulin and in about 5 years we can find out if it’s useful!

So according to T MS: Dulin never misfiled the tip.
The tip was reported to him as Richard Allen Whiteman - and DD during the interview made a note that he is 'of Whiteman' instead. Unfortunately during filling the first person did not pick that up, but it helped Shank to eventually fix that error.

Apologies for piping up, I just feel bad for DD, because during his and Shank's testimony, it became apparent we have all been blaming him for something that was not his fault.

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Six: "It Doesn't Matter, It's Over"

We discuss the sixth day of Richard Allen's trial. We saw Allen's knives and boxcutters and heard more from the woman who uncovered the tip that led to this...

murdersheetpodcast.com

All my interpretation of the reporting.

Edited, because, ironically, I got the wrong name wrong...

 

[MiniMoo]

I do love that part, but I'm concerned if their presentation of those things is lacking. I'm thrilled the jury gets to ask questions to clear that stuff up though.

Am glad the jury get to ask questions as well.

JMT

 

[scandinavian girl]

Trying to catch up this early morning. How old was the witness who saw the young boyish puffy haired guy? I have noticed lately that the older I get the younger everyone else is and someone around 40 looks very young to me. Just a simple thought from a newly awaken brain.

 

[Boxer]

Who "cleared" Richard Allen's tip.

 

[photographer4]

Who "cleared" Richard Allen's tip.

Moreover, exactly how did they clear him and when??

 

[MiniMoo]

It would be nice if it was clarified if the phones found were actually used by RA and when. My daughter collected old cell phones for a while and we easily had 20 of them at any time in our house. But none of them were our old phones, just ones we found at garage sales and flea markets.

Good point.

It made my eyebrows go up when the cell phone information came up with one in particular missing.

But... there could be a valid explanation.

Out of those phones I wonder which was his or not and what happened to the 2017 one.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Tricia]

CLICK HERE TO TAKE THE LATEST POLL FOR 10/26/24​

We will put up a new poll before court every day.
This time we have added a couple of new choices.
Guilty and acted alone
Guilty but had help
Not Guilty
I don't know.
At the end of court on 10/25 the results are;
Guilty 72.1%
Not Guilty 8.6%
I don't know 19.3

At the end of court on 10/24/24 the results are;
Guilty 68.1%
Not Guilty 9.4%
I Don't Know 22.5%
No one will know how you vote.
Thanks
Tricia

 

[Betty P]

So according to T MS: Dulin never misfiled the tip.
The tip was reported to him as Richard Allen Whiteman - and DD during the interview made a note that he is 'of Whiteman' instead. Unfortunately during filling the first person did not pick that up, but it helped Shank to eventually fix that error.

Apologies for piping up, I just feel bad for DD, because during his and Shank's testimony, it became apparent we have all been blaming him for something that was not his fault.

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Six: "It Doesn't Matter, It's Over"

We discuss the sixth day of Richard Allen's trial. We saw Allen's knives and boxcutters and heard more from the woman who uncovered the tip that led to this...

murdersheetpodcast.com

All my interpretation of the reporting.

Edited, because, ironically, I got the wrong name wrong...

I recall from reading the background in the news media (after focus shifted to RA) that it didn't appear to be DD's fault. He did what he was asked to do. He wasn't authorized to do any more than interview RA, make notes and turn them in.

It's a shame if people were blaming him, but there's been so much confusion about this case with so many podcasts and social media, some of which don't do enough homework. Glad its been cleared up with DD's testimony. IIRC, there was a little finger-pointing between regular LE agencies.

 

[MiniMoo]

Unspent Bullet - Bullet Expert

This is for those that know guns and bullets really well.

Just wondering shouldn't the bullet expert have used the same gun model as Richard Allen.

What's below has come up in a few places so got me thinking.

I feel that the same gun model should have been tested despite not knowing much about them.

The link at the bottom is from WRTV.




LINK: Different Guns Tested Not Allen's.

JWTK = Just Wanting To Know.

 

[MassGuy]

Unspent Bullet - Bullet Expert

This is for those that know guns and bullets really well.

Just wondering shouldn't the bullet expert have used the same gun model as Richard Allen.

What's below has come up in a few places so got me thinking.

I feel that the same gun model should have been tested despite not knowing much about them.

The link at the bottom is from WRTV.


View attachment 540725

LINK: Different Guns Tested Not Allen's.

JWTK = Just Wanting To Know.

That would be one hell of a coincidence if the studies she cited had been performed on that specific model gun. There are countless gun manufacturers who have further countless models of guns. I'd be surprised if she didn't use research involving an Sig firearm, as it is a very common brand. What the attorney is asking for her is likely impossible, as it does not exist.

What matters is that this research has been conducted on firearms that have the same type of parts, made of the same types of materials, that operate the same way.

 

[iamshadow21]

That would be one hell of a coincidence if the studies she cited had been performed on that specific model gun. There are countless gun manufacturers who have further countless models of guns. I'd be surprised if she didn't use research involving an Sig firearm, as it is a very common brand. What the attorney is asking for her is likely impossible, as it does not exist.

What matters is that this research has been conducted on firearms that have the same type of parts, made of the same types of materials, that operate the same way.

Yeah, it's like saying that studies showing airbags save lives are invalid because they weren't originally done exclusively with your specific make and model of car. It's just not how broad studies of a whole category of things work.

MOO

 

[Niner]

After scrolling thru 200 plus posts - I did not see - what the alternate jurors are left. I had 3 women & 1 man - was it a woman with the emergency? TIA!

 

[MassGuy]

After scrolling thru 200 plus posts - I did not see - what the alternate jurors are left. I had 3 women & 1 man - was it a woman with the emergency? TIA!

I can't find anything on the sex of the juror. Playing the odds, it's likely to be a woman, but we don't know.

 

[Niner]

Saturday, October 26th:
*Trial continues (Day 8) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency. 3 Alternates left (no count). Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-6 (10/18-10/24/24) reference post #889 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-203.726949/page-45
10/24/24 Docket update: Judge Gull reportedly granted former Carroll County Prosecutor Rob Ives’ Motion to Quash Subpoena. According to Ives, Allen had subpoenaed him w/ Ives contending any testimony is protected by work product and he is not a fact witness. The Indiana Supreme Court has stated that a prosecutor may not be called as a defense witness unless the testimony sought is required by a compelling and legitimate need. Matheney v. State, 583 NE2d 1202, 1206 (Ind. 1992). Where evidence can be obtained from other sources and absent extraordinary circumstances, an attorney who participates in a case should not be called. See link at: _Motion to Quash Subpoena.pdf
10/25/24 Friday, Trial Day 7: State witnesses: Melissa Oberg. [Worked for the Indiana State Police as a forensic firearm examiner & resigned in 2013. Works for a clinical asset health management company now. She tells the jury she is an operations data analyst for that company. Did analysis on the cartridge on 2/17/17. She saw three possible ejector marks & three possible extractor marks on the cartridge & showed the jury a powerpoint presentation that came to the conclusion that the gun collected from Allen’s home in 2022 had indeed cycled the cartridge that was found near the bodies of Libby & Abby.
For more info see post #4 (Day 7 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...hi-murders-richard-allen-arrested-204.727056/
Only 15 of the 16 jurors came back into the courtroom after the lunch break. One juror was dismissed. That leaves 12 jurors & three alternate jurors. Dismissed juror has a family emergency.
Trial continues on Saturday, 10/26/24 @ 9am.

 

[Niner]

I can't find anything on the sex of the juror. Playing the odds, it's likely to be a woman, but we don't know.

That is what I thought too - a woman. But I shall wait & see if any of the reporters tells us! Thanks!