Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[flashy09]

The state's theory is based on evidence. The defense's theory is based on fantasy ranging from improbable to impossible.

Three girls with a child saw BG, RA saw girls with a child. That's easy math as I see it, especially considering all of them recognized BG from the video, and two of them got his clothing right (according to Allen himself).

I hope the prosecution drives that point home....all the witnesses agree the BG video is the man they saw.

 

[INfisherman]

I’m just curious - I know Kline isn’t a suspect and I’m not placing him as such - just wondered if BG - RA could have known the girls would be there that day…with them possibly being in contact with Kline —-and then RA visiting Peru that same day - do we know where Kline lived, was located, anything that could assume they had a friendship or something strange to tip off RA to the girls going to the bridge. Could RA have been with Kline that day, in his way to see mom in Peru or anything like that.

I also don’t recall if they just announced that day “Hey we want to go to the bridge” and asked Kelsi to take them? All just thinking out loud. Thanks for any info!

JMO

That was my theory as well. There is testimony from an interview with KAK & Vido from ISP & they discuss the Delphi murders. I’ve read it but cannot link to it due to paywall.

 

[mrjitty]

So, do they have data from the cell phone company from that day...even though they don't have his actually cell phone from 2017? I missed that if that is true

I suspect it might be lack of data that is the problem for the defence

 

[MassGuy]

Obergt explains the inside of a firearm and how the various components work. She tells the jury that the tools in the firearm are harder than the cartridge/bullet that they come into contact with. She explains the cycling of a cartridge and explains what a bullet looks like after it’s been cycled.

She demonstrates cycling of a pistol with an actual firearm. She inserts the magazine and 40 cal. Smith and Wesson dummy cartridge, she looks down the barrel to make sure it is empty and unloaded. She inserts the magazine and cartridge and cycles the round.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 7 live blog

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Friday is the seventh day of testimonies in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail...

www.wishtv.com

 

[TTF14]

So, do they have data from the cell phone company from that day...even though they don't have his actually cell phone from 2017? I missed that if that is true

Pretty sure that hasn't come up yet, but I'd expect someone from AT&T/Verizon/whatever service he had will be called to testify. It will definitely be telling if there's no activity during that time, especially since he said he was using a stock ticker (would that show up on reports phone companies have??). If not, he may have been using a burner, which hopefully was discovered on a tower dump.

Do phone companies' reports have the ability to tell if a phone has accessed apps/websites, etc. during a particular timeframe?

As always, JMO.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

BBM

To whom and when? Without a warrant, he shouldn't have turned anything over to LE. Nobody should, in my opinion.

As always, JMO.

I should have added those stipulations to my post. Didn't RA admit to having a jacket like one in the BG photo? I myself would have said, "It's at home. You can look at it if you want." Maybe, I'm being naive?? I just believe that people who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

JMO.

 

[Shadowtrix]

I have coats from 30 years ago. We are well off and have a very expensive home. That coat was fairly new. I am suspicious if it has not be located. WHY would you just discard a jacket. I actually posted photos of him in that jacket (taken from Facebook) but they were removed because they were not from an approved source.

JMO.

Where do we think he dumped the muddy, bloody jacket? Tossed it somewhere on his drive after leaving the trails? Garbage and it ended up in a landfill before he was ever looked into any further?

Just something I’ve been wondering today.

 

[Salah11]

I have coats from 30 years ago. We are well off and have a very expensive home. That coat was fairly new. I am suspicious if it has not be located. WHY would you just discard a jacket. I actually posted photos of him in that jacket (taken from Facebook) but they were removed because they were not from an approved source.

JMO.

Because the jacket had DNA evidence linking him to this crimes. How exactly was he going to explain to his wife why he was covered in blood?

It was a bloody crime scene so he would of had blood over him.

 

[Web_Sleuth]

I have coats from 30 years ago. We are well off and have a very expensive home. That coat was fairly new. I am suspicious if it has not be located. WHY would you just discard a jacket. I actually posted photos of him in that jacket (taken from Facebook) but they were removed because they were not from an approved source.

JMO.

They located A jacket in his closet that matched the descriptions, but if you were guilty, would you keep evidence like that (probably covered in blood/dna)? I don’t think I would have - I would have gotten rid of it the best way I could and replaced it so the wife didn’t suspect. ‍

AMOO

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

They located A jacket in his closet that matched the descriptions, but if you were guilty, would you keep evidence like that (probably covered in blood/dna)? I don’t think I would have - I would have gotten rid of it the best way I could and replaced it so the wife didn’t suspect. ‍

AMOO

Thanks for the reply. I agree. That's what I was wondering. I wouldn't keep the jacket if I were guilty even if it were new. If it were just given to me as a present, I would have made an excuse to my spouse that I left the jacket some place.

JMO.

 

[cbeagle]

So, do they have data from the cell phone company from that day...even though they don't have his actually cell phone from 2017? I missed that if that is true

Dulin testified that he was also in charge of calling phone numbers that pinged off of cell towers during the time of the crime. He said he canvassed the crime scene the day before he met with Allen.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

So they had the data at one point.

 

[ClearAhead]

I would think the answer to the question...Is that you? would be a simple, No.

And if there is no record of him using his phone to check up on Wall Street data, and he said exactly that's what he was doing....almost sounds like he's lying.

On another note, I'd like to go out in those woods with my Minelab Equinox 800...I have thousands of hours on a metal detector, and start at the scene where these girls' bodies were found, and pull every bullet, casing, bottle cap, pop tab, piece of tin, balled up aluminum foil, penny, and nail layin' around there! The least likely item out of that list to be found around there is an actual unfired .40 caliber round.

Yes, it’s as if RA believes he’s giving an alibi that seems valid - he was on his phone - but he’s too stupid to realize that by discarding the phone it makes it appear he was lying and he’s a very poor liar. Was this the same interview when he later got mad and walked out? People who lie often use aggression as an intimidate tactic, rather than telling the truth. MOO

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

Because the jacket had DNA evidence linking him to this crimes. How exactly was he going to explain to his wife why he was covered in blood?

It was a bloody crime scene so he would of had blood over him.

Another poster said that it was located in his closet. Was DNA found on this jacket? If he removed it during the crime, it still had to have had blood on the inside of it. Just speculating.

JMO.

 

[TTF14]

Dulin testified that he was also in charge of calling phone numbers that pinged off of cell towers during the time of the crime.

RSBM

So is this what is referred to as "geofencing?" Were any follow-up questions asked about this? Like, were they able to connect all those numbers to actual phones and people?

 

[ClearAhead]

Thanks for the reply. I agree. That's what I was wondering. I wouldn't keep the jacket if I were guilty even if it were new. If it were just given to me as a present, I would have made an excuse to my spouse that I left the jacket some place.

JMO.

The jacket was seized amongst other items during the execution of a legal search warrant by LE, authorized by a Judge. RA was not given a choice.

 

[TTF14]

Another poster said that it was located in his closet. Was DNA found on this jacket? If he removed it during the crime, it still had to have had blood on the inside of it. Just speculating.

JMO.

I think (?) we're still waiting to hear from lab analysts about things like this.

As always, JMO.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

The jacket was seized amongst other items during the execution of a legal search warrant by LE, authorized by a Judge. RA was not given a choice.

Was DNA from the crime scene found on the jacket? I'm not sure that blood would remain if it were washed. I'm just trying to think through this horrible crime. Other evidence does point to him. I understand that.

JMO.

 

[mrjitty]

I listened to last nights lawyer lee so you don't have to - talking about the timeline established so far. Good quality.

I found one new thing in there. She said there is a hard off time for the phone when it finally ran out of juice - I think she misses the significance of this - it means the phone was always continuously on until well into the day the girls were finally discovered. This answers what she was discussing before that. Namely that the floors the phone gains does not exactly match "down the hill'. But given the phone was actually found 'down the hill and across the stream and up the bank" - the data corroborates reasonably well - and critically, there is no other data. So by definition, it cannot have gone elsewhere the entire time because there is not one further step.

Is it theoretically possible someone picked it up at 4.30 am, then put it back down under the body without steps? Causing it to connect? I guess so, but even that might well have logged?

To make this work I think one guy has to bundle the girls into the waiting car, while the accomplice takes the phone to the murder site and puts it there around 2,40pm where it sits by itself for 10 hours - then in the dead of night, the girls are brought back, the phone is woken up and put back down without a step logged - the girls are murdered, and abby falls on top of the phone ... errr what?

This is being quite picky from me - but it seems obvious?

In any event - worth a listen if your thing is the timeline

 

[Cedars]

Maybe he thought he was being clever and thought he was sticking to the story he had already told about that day. He said he had seen the other group of girls that day but didn't say he had seen Libby and Abby. So maybe this was his way to be clever, thinking it would be consistent to what he had said so far?

(It's still a bizarre statement but I am just speculating on RA's possible thought process.)

I was thinking, in general, aren't lies premeditated, in pre-planned crimes? Part of convincing themselves they can get away with it...
eg I'll say I never met my victim, or I'll say I was 500 miles away...

Just the process of contemplating committing a murder would include what ifs...
what if they can track my phone pings, I better not bring my phone...what if someone recognizes me? I'll say I never saw my victims and no one can ever prove I did if I do it this way....

Just speculation and personal opinion.

ETA, I doubt any murderer ever thought 'what if my victim secretly takes a photo of me'. Possibly it would be very upsetting to realize they had...and to be suddenly reminded of it.

 

[photographer4]

Dbm