Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[Salah11]

Another poster said that it was located in his closet. Was DNA found on this jacket? If he removed it during the crime, it still had to have had blood on the inside of it. Just speculating.

JMO.

A blue jacket was found but zero proof it’s the same one as over 5 years had passed before his arrest unfortunately. Just like how he had clearly gotten rid of his phone from 2017.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

dbm.

 

[ClearAhead]

Was DNA from the crime scene found on the jacket? I'm not sure that blood would remain if it were washed. I'm just trying to think through this horrible crime. Other evidence does point to him. I understand that.

JMO.

No I don’t think DNA was found on the jacket. But perhaps within the five plus years he bought a new one that looked similar? We don’t know that either.

 

[TTF14]

I don't think we know for sure if the jacket found in the search of his house was the exact same jacket he wore that day. It could have been another blue carhartt jacket, maybe he had more than one or he got another one after he disposed of the one he wore that day. I don't think anyone has been specific about that.

We also don't know if the coat "BG" is wearing is even a Carhartt jacket, do we? It doesn't look like one to me (it looks more like LL Bean, Lands End, or Columbia). But, I'm not a coat expert.

Has there been any testimony identifying the brand of "BG's" jacket?

As always, JMO.

 

[CS2C]

They located A jacket in his closet that matched the descriptions, but if you were guilty, would you keep evidence like that (probably covered in blood/dna)? I don’t think I would have - I would have gotten rid of it the best way I could and replaced it so the wife didn’t suspect. ‍

AMOO

He kept the car

 

[Justice101]

Another poster said that it was located in his closet. Was DNA found on this jacket? If he removed it during the crime, it still had to have had blood on the inside of it. Just speculating.

JMO.

He probably washed it in the washing machine 10 times

 

[Bbgiraffe]

I was thinking, in general, aren't lies premeditated, in pre-planned crimes? Part of convincing themselves they can get away with it...
eg I'll say I never met my victim, or I'll say I was 500 miles away...

Just the process of contemplating committing a murder would include what ifs...
what if they can track my phone pings, I better not bring my phone...what if someone recognizes me? I'll say I never saw my victims and no one can ever prove I did if I do it this way....

Just speculation and personal opinion.

I think he didn't bring his phone or he would have been contacted when they got the info from the towers and called the phones that were in the area based on the tower information. Instead he contacted them first and we hear no mention of them getting his phone info to corroborate from the towers. if i'm understanding everything correctly which i might not be. MOO.

 

[TTF14]

He probably washed it in the washing machine 10 times

I wonder if lab techs can estimate how many times a garment has been laundered by looking at thread wear, etc.

As always, JMO.

 

[Cedars]

I think he didn't bring his phone or he would have been contacted when they got the info from the towers and called the phones that were in the area based on the tower information. Instead he contacted them first and we hear no mention of them getting his phone info to corroborate from the towers. if i'm understanding everything correctly which i might not be. MOO.

Yes, that's my understanding too.

 

[cbeagle]

RSBM

So is this what is referred to as "geofencing?" Were any follow-up questions asked about this? Like, were they able to connect all those numbers to actual phones and people?

Two options:
1) geo-fencing would have selected phones within a specific area, ie. around the bridge/trail (like the area was fenced), but unclear if there were enough cell towers to accurately perform that.
2) Just phones that connected to the tower or towers near the bridge, so for example the phone could have been the other side of a tower from the bridge.

Not sure of any follow up questions, as someone else said, would expect a telco expert to testify at some point.

 

[MassGuy]

Obergt tells the jury describes the testing of a firearm and how an analysis is performed. She tells the jury the main thing that allows an examiner to make a conclusion is test firing a firearm and comparing with two microscopes. She says she then makes one of three conclusions: identification, inconclusive or exclusion.

Prosecution shows the jury the actual cartridge from the crime scene and photos of it from Obergt’s examination.

Obergt says the cartridge was tested for DNA first and she noticed there was no biological substance on it, that it was in good condition and was a Winchester brand 40 cal. cartridge.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 7 live blog

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Friday is the seventh day of testimonies in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail...

www.wishtv.com

 

[photographer4]

10:34 A.M.​

Court was back in session at 9:01 a.m. Judge Gull shares that the jury had access to their phones last night, under supervision.

At 9:05 a.m. the state called Melissa Obergt. Obergt works for a clinical asset health management company.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 7 live blog

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Friday is the seventh day of testimonies in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail...

www.wishtv.com

Anyone know what she might be testifying about?

RA mental health pre incarceration would be my guess. Moo

 

[Bbgiraffe]

RA mental health pre incarceration would be my guess. Moo

she was the ballistics person who compared the bullet from the crime scene with a bullet cycled through RA's gun.

 

[Yesiamapirate]

He probably washed it in the washing machine 10 times

If Mr Pirate came home and washed his jacket 10 times in a row, claiming he got some mud, food or dog doo on it from whatever he was doing, I would buy it. The last thing I would think is it had some relation to what happened the other day around the high bridge. Assuming the washing happened within hours or whatever of the big news in Delphi. But then fast forward to RA finally being arrested. At that point the jacket washing might make me go ...HUMMM.
This is ALL just my opinion. There is nothing to say he washed it or whatever. Just a little scenario I made up in my mind only.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

No I don’t think DNA was found on the jacket. But perhaps within the five plus years he bought a new one that looked similar? We don’t know that either.

IIRC, didn't police track down shoes purchased by Jason Young (who was accused of murdering his wife, Michelle)?

I would think that police would be able to track down the purchase of his jacket and of a subsequent purchase if he bought another one that looked like it. To me, if he replaced the jacket, that would be most suspicious.

JMO.

 

[flashy09]

I wonder if his credit cards and bank accounts can be checked for any purchases at stores that carry Carhartt. From my googling there is are two stores in Indiana that do, both about 1 hr 30 minutes from him. It would be really interesting if there is a charge from either. Of course he could have used cash, which means he would have to be in person. I would love to see cameras from those stores in the days/weeks after the murders, especially his days off!

 

[INfisherman]

Some eyewitnesses mentioned BG seemed overdressed. He could have worn clothing in layers, which is common around IN due to weather changes. It’s possible BG planned ahead & brought trash bags in his trunk. He was allegedly parked so his trunk was facing away from prying eyes at the CPS bldg. Assuming the timeline/testimony is correct, he could have easily peeled off layers at his car, placed them in a trash bag & returned home with clean clothes on. The bag could have been disposed of prior to coming home or burned at his house or elsewhere. More than likely he’d have to know in advance where his wife was going to be. Blood could have potentially been dried if he in fact did head N from crime scene & returned to car along 300N.

All JMO

 

[lonetraveler]

I've been hitting this case off and on during the trial so forgive me if this was covered and I missed it. Was Ron Logan, the owner of the property, ever brought up in the trial? I know he died of covid years ago. At one time he was under investigation as a suspect.

 

[m00c0w]

Pretty sure that hasn't come up yet, but I'd expect someone from AT&T/Verizon/whatever service he had will be called to testify. It will definitely be telling if there's no activity during that time, especially since he said he was using a stock ticker (would that show up on reports phone companies have??). If not, he may have been using a burner, which hopefully was discovered on a tower dump.

Do phone companies' reports have the ability to tell if a phone has accessed apps/websites, etc. during a particular timeframe?

As always, JMO.

Not sure if this has been responded to, yet. Thread moves quickly.

The tower dumps will contain records for devices that connected to the tower(s) in the area for each service provider. For his phone to work (or at least use mobile data), it would have had to have connected to a cell tower. And there would be records of this connection.

If they were able to get his actual call detail records, it would show data usage (but not necessarily what websites or what the data was specifically used for). I doubt this happened, as I believe most providers only keep records for a year or two at most because of the sheer volume.

I think it’s most likely they have tower dumps for the providers that use that tower’s resources and his phone does not appear in the logs.

All my opinion.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

He probably washed it in the washing machine 10 times

I am the one who does the laundry in my house. If my husband took a sudden interest in washing his jacket, I would wonder WHY. He doesn't do laundry. If I discovered the washer going with his jacket in it, I would definitely question him why he was washing his jacket.

After hearing that a suspect was wearing a similar jacket at a vicious crime scene where my husband happened to be that day, I would hate it, but there is no way that I would NOT suspect him of being involved. This would be too coincidental for me to rationalize.

JMO.