Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[MassGuy]

Good, this is even better than the 3 we had heard about.

During Oberg’s testimony, it was also revealed that Allen’s Sig Saur hadn’t been the only gun tested as a possible match for the crime scene bullet. Eight total guns have been tested in the case, including three guns in 2017. Allen’s gun was the first to come back as a match to the unspent round found between Abby and Libby.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-forensic-firearms-examiner-discusses-toolmark-methodology-unspent-bullet-evidence/

 

[chaz]

Yes, the carrier would have that data. They had his phone number to work with, but also the specific identification numbers of the device (that’s what DD was checking on his phone).

I believe they could then subpoena his phone company and figure out exactly when he changed devices.

Can they also give the last known location of that phone? Possible dumping ground?

 

[mrjitty]

There has been a lot of consternation about the timeline and how the prosecution's timeline can't possibly work. I've gone through and compiled a chronological sequence of events based on the last few days of trial. None of this is from the PCA or anywhere but sworn trial testimony:

1326 - Photo of a park bench is taken by the 3 girls while walking from MHB to Freedom Bridge. They report seeing BG later, near Freedom Bridge, walking towards MHB with a purpose (1)
1327 - Vehicle consistent with RA's vehicle seen on HH camera traveling west on 300N (4)
1338 - LG calls DG, 35 second phone call (2)
1341 - Selfie of LG and AW posted on snapchat on the way to MHB (2)(3)
1343 - Another selfie of LG and AW posted on snapchat on the way to MHB (2)(3)
1346 - BB's car is seen on the HH camera heading back towards the trails. BB states that when she returned to the trails, she saw BG on the first platform of the bridge. (1)
1349 - HH video shows KG going to drop off girls (1)
1405 - LG posts photo of MHB on Snapchat (2)
1407 - Photo of AW crossing the bridge posted on Snapchat (2)
1413 - Video of BG taken by LG (1)(3)
1414 - Attempt to unlock LG's phone (3)
1418 - BB captured traveling west on 300N via HH camera (1)
1432 - Last recorded phone movement (2)(3)
1556 - SC captured traveling east on 300N via HH camera (1)

Sources:
(1) - https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-native-reflects-on-abby-libbys-legacy-in-town/
(2) - A call, Snapchat photos, the infamous video: Delphi trial offers timeline of girls' activities
(3) - Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog
(4) - Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

awesome!

i’d suggest to add the following. i can look for exact times and the cites


*after 4pm text message to Libby’s phone from BP showing phone was on
*after 10pm. tower connection
*430 am. messages received
* daytime on the 14th. phone turns off (flat battery).

help to track these down appreciated. the last one is from Lawyer Lees live on the 24th

 

[Inthedetails]

Good, this is even better than the 3 we had heard about.

During Oberg’s testimony, it was also revealed that Allen’s Sig Saur hadn’t been the only gun tested as a possible match for the crime scene bullet. Eight total guns have been tested in the case, including three guns in 2017. Allen’s gun was the first to come back as a match to the unspent round found between Abby and Libby.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-forensic-firearms-examiner-discusses-toolmark-methodology-unspent-bullet-evidence/

Wait a minute....the conspiracy to pin the murders on RA included testing other guns, not just his? Wow, the conspiracy ring was thorough! I wonder if they had a spreadsheet to keep everything organized.

jmo

edited to add, just in case: I'm being sarcastic.

 

[MassGuy]

can they also give the last known location of that phone?

I’m not sure, as I don’t know how long they’d hold on to information like that.

My sense would be no, but I’m not an expert.

 

[ClearAhead]

Not aimed at you in any way @MollyDDD but how the heck would we KNOW that his mother / wife / lawyers told him to plead not guilty?? This allegation would constitute professional misconduct on the part of his lawyers if it were proven to be true, no? Not an opinion - I'm asking - how do we know, and if it could be proven, would it be professional misconduct???

Why do you think that would be considered professional misconduct, as long as the D doesn’t allow RA to testify and lie on the witness stand?

 

[photographer4]

So far in this trial, notice how all the key elements are lining up so far, even without DNA?
- RA said he drove his Ford Focus that has distinctive black wheels with spokes to the bridge.
- a vehicle resembling the Ford Focus with distinctive wheels was sighted on HH’s video shortly prior to the murders.
- RA acknowledges he was at the bridge wearing clothing similar clothing as the man on the bridge while looking at his stock ticker on his cellphone
- witnesses claim the person they saw resembled the man on the bridge
- RAs cellphone from 2017 wasn’t found
- he had knives and box cutters all over the house
- victims were murdered with a knife or boxcutter
- a cartridge was found at the crime scene, ‘gun’ may’ve been recorded prior to DTH on Libby’s video.
- marks on cartridge match RA’s gun seized from his home during search
- “it doesn’t matter, it’s over” according to RA

And we haven’t yet heard his confessions.
I might’ve missed something.

Nothing they have is DNA / electronic connection to the kids or the murder. In this day and age, I find this hard to believe. They seem to not have DNA from anyone who may have been at the scene during the murders - what a mess this case is imo. I'm not going to go point by point to refute as I think my issue is that I need more than circumstantial evidence in this day and age, and so far, we just don't have it. MOoo.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I think its good they have expressed concerns about his mental state really. Clearly there have been some issues with mental health / medications administered etc... MOOO.

Yes, he’s battled depression, anxiety, a possible alcohol disorder. Of course, most people who battle those don’t commit murder. But some do. A higher proportion of murderers are likely to have a personality disorder.

jmo

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Nothing they have is DNA / electronic connection to the kids or the murder. In this day and age, I find this hard to believe. They seem to not have DNA from anyone who may have been at the scene during the murders - what a mess this case is imo. I'm not going to go point by point to refute as I think my issue is that I need more than circumstantial evidence in this day and age, and so far, we just don't have it. MOoo.

There was no DNA evidence of Letecia brought up in Gannon's trial. No electronic data tying her to murder either, just bizarre Google searches.

She did it though and was found guilty. So you prefer those criminals who are "good" and don't leave DNA and leave their phone at home to just walk free? Even though there is a pile of evidence pointing directly toward them?

 

[MassGuy]

Nothing they have is DNA / electronic connection to the kids or the murder. In this day and age, I find this hard to believe. They seem to not have DNA from anyone who may have been at the scene during the murders - what a mess this case is imo. I'm not going to go point by point to refute as I think my issue is that I need more than circumstantial evidence in this day and age, and so far, we just don't have it. MOoo.

If your standard is DNA, then does that mean you’re fine with the killer getting away with this?

Real life is not like CSI. Not every scene involves recovered DNA. How do you think cases were solved a few decades ago?

This man apparently didn’t cut himself. He apparently did not commit an overt sex act.

How does that make a prosecution a mess?

 

[Inthedetails]

Nothing they have is DNA / electronic connection to the kids or the murder. In this day and age, I find this hard to believe. They seem to not have DNA from anyone who may have been at the scene during the murders - what a mess this case is imo. I'm not going to go point by point to refute as I think my issue is that I need more than circumstantial evidence in this day and age, and so far, we just don't have it. MOoo.

FWIW, DNA can be considered circumstantial too. It can prove someone was there but not necessarily prove that person committed the crime.

And, anyway, people think circumstantial evidence is not strong, and that is not the case it all.

Direct evidence: A witness saw the perp stab the victim.
Circumstantial: The perp has a knife in his hand, covered with blood, standing over the injured victim.

jmo

 

[steeltowngirl]

Nothing they have is DNA / electronic connection to the kids or the murder. In this day and age, I find this hard to believe. They seem to not have DNA from anyone who may have been at the scene during the murders - what a mess this case is imo. I'm not going to go point by point to refute as I think my issue is that I need more than circumstantial evidence in this day and age, and so far, we just don't have it. MOoo.

The evidence presented may be enough for the jury.
They will make the decision.

jmo

 

[MassGuy]

Rozzi asked Oberg about the testing process and Oberg responded “I chose to use the test fired markings because they were stronger, this is a case of work smarter not harder.”

Oberg repeated that the difference between cycling and firing is “the same process, just one has more pressure.”

Oberg says she does not know what the firearm could have been exposed to between 2017 and 2022 and did not know where the Sig Sauer was made.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 7 live blog

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Friday is the seventh day of testimonies in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail...

www.wishtv.com

 

[Yemelyan]

After the state finished its questioning of Oberg, the defense cross-examined her and attempted to hammer in on the possibility of inconclusiveness in her results or errors in the testing, citing how her findings only needed to reach “sufficient agreement.”

Oberg stood by her findings and stated her field only has an error rate of 2-2.5%.

But Rozzi pushed on the fact that Oberg’s conclusion was based on a test fired round, not a test ejected round like the one found at the crime scene. Oberg tied the crime scene cartridge to Allen’s gun specifically through three ejection marks.


Oberg stated an “ejector mark is an ejector mark whether its fired or cycled.”

Source: https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delp...toolmark-methodology-unspent-bullet-evidence/

 

[MiniMoo]

They located A jacket in his closet that matched the descriptions, but if you were guilty, would you keep evidence like that (probably covered in blood/dna)? I don’t think I would have - I would have gotten rid of it the best way I could and replaced it so the wife didn’t suspect. ‍

AMOO

The jacket or coat believed to have been worn by BG in 2017 what material would it have been made out of - does anyone know?

That particular type of coat or jacket, of course.

JAQ - Just asking a Question.

 

[m00c0w]

awesome!

i’d suggest to add the following. i can look for exact times and the cites


*after 4pm text message to Libby’s phone from BP showing phone was on
*after 10pm. tower connection
*430 am. messages received
* daytime on the 14th. phone turns off (flat battery).

help to track these down appreciated. the last one is from Lawyer Lees live on the 24th

I added the 10pm "last signal" and 0433 text messages.

 

[Inthedetails]

Any news about the missing juror?

jmo

 

[photographer4]

There was no DNA evidence of Letecia brought up in Gannon's trial. No electronic data tying her to murder either, just bizarre Google searches.

She did it though and was found guilty. So you prefer those criminals who are "good" and don't leave DNA and leave their phone at home to just walk free? Even though there is a pile of evidence pointing directly toward them?

I'm not familiar with the case you've mentioned so I cannot comment.

 

[m00c0w]

Nothing they have is DNA / electronic connection to the kids or the murder. In this day and age, I find this hard to believe. They seem to not have DNA from anyone who may have been at the scene during the murders - what a mess this case is imo. I'm not going to go point by point to refute as I think my issue is that I need more than circumstantial evidence in this day and age, and so far, we just don't have it. MOoo.

DNA and electronic evidence are also forms of circumstantial evidence...

JMO

 

[arielilane]

Earlier post

@KylaBRussell

#NEW: A tool mark firearm expert was called to testify in day 7 of the #Delphi double murders case. She testified to concluding a pistol taken from Richard Allen’s home cycled the cartridge found near the crime scene in 2017.It’s important to note the cartridge found at the scene had been cycled through a firearm, but the cartridge she used to test was fired.


30 mins ago

In cross, Melissa Oberg explained to the jury that the same markings are made in the process of cycling and firing, the marks are just stronger when fired.


4:13 PM · Oct 25, 2024