Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[ClearAhead]

Why would there have been an Amber Alert for the girls on Feb 13, 2017 at all? They were not yet known or even thought to have been abducted???

"The child must be believed to be abducted, AND in danger of serious bodily harm or death."

Amber Alert Plan

www.in.gov

The woman may have thought there was an Amber Alert because she testified LE were stopping people in cars at intersections and questioning them about the disappearance. Easy to make that mistake IMO.

 

[photographer4]

There was not an Amber alert issued because this didnt meet the criteria. It’s disappointing but I feel the locals did all they could despite that. And then we jumped in.

Right, but SC - the witness for the state testified that:

"Carbaugh said, once at home, she learned Libby German, 14, and Abby Williams, 13, were missing when she received an AMBER Alert."

Girls on Delphi trail on day of murders speak out: 'That was the man I had waved at'

Teenage girls who were on the Delphi hiking trail on the same day two younger girls were murdered there are speaking out about their recollections of the "bridge guy."

abcnews.go.com

This is bunk if an Amber Alert was not issued for the girls. Nor should one have been - they didn't meet the criteria for one on the 13th per my previous post with the link to the criteria from the state.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Why would there have been an Amber Alert for the girls on Feb 13, 2017 at all? They were not yet known or even thought to have been abducted???

"The child must be believed to be abducted, AND in danger of serious bodily harm or death."

Amber Alert Plan

www.in.gov

There wasn't one for them. IIRC, they were just asking for information. There was another teen (from Chicago?) they were asking about at the same time so it got confusing.

I'm not sure exactly when the girls were reported as missing.

 

[justtrish]

I feel like Grey Hughes or someone affiliated with him had such a video. Anyone else recall? I can reach out to him for clarification too. Lmk

I've seen his video with the map.. just using dots as the people moving along the trail and to the CS then BG exiting.. I have seen this one. It is amazing to show just how much time one person had to do all that was done. I was more meaning an actual video of a person walking the area.

 

[photographer4]

The woman may have thought there was an Amber Alert because she testified LE were stopping people in cars at intersections and questioning them about the disappearance. Easy to make that mistake IMO.

I believe she stopped to tell LE what she saw because she saw them stopping people and thought that was a sign from god that she should - that wasn't because she got an amber alert on the 13th:

"Carbaugh did not immediately come forward to talk with authorities. She eventually talked with local police investigators three weeks later. She said she had been traumatized by the murders. "My inaction was me overthinking and panicking. I was having a moment," she said.

Carbaugh saw a police officer at a roadblock in Delphi asking for tips regarding the case. She called that "a sign from God" to report what she saw that day." - Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 | 'Bridge Guy' sighting, autopsy photos, and digital forensics

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The defense was complaining they couldn't even find things in the discovery when they were actually looking for it.

The defense was also complaining they couldn’t find certain things in discovery when in actuality they had actually cited those exact things in previous motions.

 

[justtrish]

I think it's very likely that what SC received was not an Amber Alert. I know someone who lives in Delphi. She knew about the girls being missing really quickly because it's a small town and she has kids the same ages at Abby and Libby.. She knew people were out looking for missing girls.

I think it's possible SC heard about it in many different ways like a post on FB, a mention on the local news, a text from someone, etc... and in her mind she equated it with Amber Alert. I know words matter, but I am not going to get worked up about if it was an actual amber alert or just a text from someone saying some girls are missing.. you know word of mouth in a small town to get people to come help search for missing girls.. Many people think of missing kids = Amber Alert. JMO

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Wow. This is even more interesting than the comments he apparently made at the house.

“I don’t care, kill me, I want to die anyway.”

If you didn’t do it, then I’d expect someone in that situation to be angry and terrified. I wouldn’t expect them to be throwing in the towel.

Even if one argues that his reputation is destroyed and that’s why he’s saying that, wouldn’t your freedom be a much more important concern?

Not if you’re a publicly scorned, unemployed, depressed, alcoholic who’s been accused of a brutal murder after voluntarily coming forward to LE in an effort to assist with the investigation of that murder. IMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

The girls were not reported missing until 5:30pm that afternoon.

https://fox59.com/news/what-we-know-so-far-about-the-delphi-murders/

 

[rez125]

Uh oh, no MR given to him either. Part of the interrogation not recorded.

This is getting worse by the minute...

 

[photographer4]

There wasn't one for them. IIRC, they were just asking for information. There was another teen (from Chicago?) they were asking about at the same time so it got confusing.

I'm not sure exactly when the girls were reported as missing.

So SC got a frickin AMBER ALERT about someone who police believed "must be believed to be abducted, AND in danger of serious bodily harm or death." - Amber Alert Plan
Claims she saw someone muddy etc emerge from the woods on the 13th and STILL did not think it important enough to contact LE RIGHT AWAY to report what she had seen? Yikes.

 

[INfisherman]

IMO
I think it's kind of hard to sneak through our fields in Feb.
Carbaugh said they were near the entrance; she was close enough to see one of the folks appeared to be stressed out
She also talks about the "Amber Alert". I'd have to check but I don't think the alert for missing girls went out at 4pm. If she drove by as a result of the alert, that part of her story doesn't hold water.

The important part for me is that she passed the Mears entrance and then saw the guy.
[snips]
Carbaugh said she uses the Mears entrance to the trail, the same as the girls used when they were dropped of on Feb. 13, 2017. Carbaugh says you can park four cars across at the entrance.

Carbaugh said she heard the Amber Alert for Abby and Libby when it was issued and drove by the Mears entrance three times.
She said around 4 p.m. that day, Carbaugh saw a group of people near the entrance. She said that included at least one person who was blonde, wearing a pink sweatshirt, and looking stressed out.

'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

BBM

What makes it difficult in your mind? Terrain or mud? I don’t feel that way if we’re talking corn or bean fields. Crops would more than likely be out of fields in Feb & way too early for planting so unless fields were holdover from 2016 harvest (odd but does happen), wouldn’t have been any more difficult than traveling the steep banks & cold water of creek. Muddy? Don’t know - records I was able to find only showed 0.4" for entire month of Feb that year. I won’t say that data is golden because it wouldn’t give me just Delphi - was from Lafayette & I wasn’t going to do a 90 minute deep dive into accurate weather history, as Google just didn’t turn up too much for me (Delphi historical weather records was search I used along with omitting Delphi). If it showed records, it excluded precipitation or wouldn’t allow for monthly total (was trying to determine how high creek might have been).

Not trying to stir - my thoughts just based on my experience around my grandparents farm ground. Corn field would be slightly more difficult due to remaining stalks. Bean field would be optimal. Also, when I say sneak, I’m not implying hide, I’m implying walking far enough away that chances of blending in with environment are better, movement is less likely to be noticed. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Can you share more about what this all means? Does the state have to prove that RA acted alone? Aka Felony murder for just marching them down the hill isn’t on the table?

I think a charge of accessory to murder would be applicable to anyone who would participate in the commission of a crime resulting in death. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

Not if you’re a publicly scorned, unemployed, depressed, alcoholic who’s been accused of a brutal murder after voluntarily coming forward to LE in an effort to assist with the investigation of that murder. IMO

That alcoholic thing is interesting. I’ve always believed the killer was under the influence because of how insanely risky it was. I could just imagine BG strolling along with a flask.

And I don’t buy that reasoning. You may be devastated by all of that, but your freedom takes precedence. I believe that is a guilty conscience.

Then the confessions followed.

This is what I thought 5 years ago. Wrong about history of petty crimes and drug abuse, but I did think he had to have been under the influence.


Post in thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91

 

[photographer4]

I think it's very likely that what SC received was not an Amber Alert. I know someone who lives in Delphi. She knew about the girls being missing really quickly because it's a small town and she has kids the same ages at Abby and Libby.. She knew people were out looking for missing girls.

I think it's possible SC heard about it in many different ways like a post on FB, a mention on the local news, a text from someone, etc... and in her mind she equated it with Amber Alert. I know words matter, but I am not going to get worked up about if it was an actual amber alert or just a text from someone saying some girls are missing.. you know word of mouth in a small town to get people to come help search for missing girls.. Many people think of missing kids = Amber Alert. JMO

Even if we remove the testimony she gave that she got an amber alert when she got home -- she STILL didn't bother to contact LE for a few weeks. I don't even think I can believe that she saw the guy she says she saw on the day she says she saw him.... because of the gap in reporting time. Nevermind the fact that she stated she saw a tan jacket and white wash pants... WHich does NOT match what RA was wearing, nor what other witnesses reported - moo.

"Baldwin asked how obvious the blood was. Carbaugh said the white-washed jeans made it more obvious. " - 'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

 

[Deleted member 229974]

According to Carbaugh’s account, the man’s clothes were bloody and muddy, with blood visible on his lower legs, feet and ankles. The rest of him was muddy—as if he had fallen down a hill or into a muddy creek.

“I’m going to label him ‘Bridge Guy’ because that’s what I know him by,” she said. She added that she recognized the image later released to the public of the man sought in connection with the girls’ deaths. She saw it on the news.

Carbaugh waited three weeks to contact police. She blamed her inaction on trauma and panic, telling the court she was “overthinking” and “having a moment.”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-combative-testimony-from-another-bridge-guy-witness/

Baldwin also took issue with her description of “Bridge Guy’s” coat color, saying Carbaugh didn’t say his coat was blue until after the infamous photo was released to the public. Baldwin said she called it tan while she recalled it was more brown—something she explained by reminding the court that “Bridge Guy” was covered in mud and blood.

…

This is the only witness i need to hear from.

Jmo

They actually put her on the stand. Weak at best.

 

[INfisherman]

Keep in mind that there's a timeline for all this to happen. They have Carbaugh's car on the HHS cam.

Do you know that time for SC passing?

 

[FrostedGlass]

BBM

What makes it difficult in your mind? Terrain or mud? I don’t feel that way if we’re talking corn or bean fields. Crops would more than likely be out of fields in Feb & way too early for planting so unless fields were holdover from 2016 harvest (odd but does happen), wouldn’t have been any more difficult than traveling the steep banks & cold water of creek. Muddy? Don’t know - records I was able to find only showed 0.4" for entire month of Feb that year. I won’t say that data is golden because it wouldn’t give me just Delphi - was from Lafayette & I wasn’t going to do a 90 minute deep dive into accurate weather history, as Google just didn’t turn up too much for me (Delphi historical weather records was search I used along with omitting Delphi). If it showed records, it excluded precipitation or wouldn’t allow for monthly total (was trying to determine how high creek might have been).

Not trying to stir - my thoughts just based on my experience around my grandparents farm ground. Corn field would be slightly more difficult due to remaining stalks. Bean field would be optimal. Also, when I say sneak, I’m not implying hide, I’m implying walking far enough away that chances of blending in with environment are better, movement is less likely to be noticed. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

The corn fields I've seen are pretty flattened by Feb and I think some man walking through the fields at that time would have caught someone's eye. JMO.

Over the years, we've speculated where he entered the road, where he ducked down into the woods on the south side and where he went around the HHS to avoid being seen on the camera. We'll probably never know but thanks for researching.

In one of the articles posted at that time, the searchers commented that the fields were muddy.

UPDATED: Foul play suspected after bodies found along Deer Creek in Delphi; vigil held

DELPHI — Police found two bodies on the edge of Deer Creek in Delphi around midday Tuesday after hundreds of volunteers had spent the morning scouring the region for two

www.pharostribune.com

 

[m00c0w]

Do you know that time for SC passing?

3:56pm

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-native-reflects-on-abby-libbys-legacy-in-town/

 

[Deleted member 229974]

That alcoholic thing is interesting. I’ve always believed the killer was under the influence because of how insanely risky it was. I could just imagine BG strolling along with a flask.

And I don’t buy that reasoning. You may be devastated by all of that, but your freedom takes precedence. I believe that is a guilty conscience.

This is what I thought 5 years ago. Wrong about history of petty crimes and drug abuse, but I did think he had to have been under the influence.

Then the confessions followed.

Post in thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91

Hmmm, I suppose I was being presumptuous after reading the article about his wife calling LE for assistance with getting him to the hospital for an evaluation and assumed he may be an alcoholic.