Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[FrostedGlass]

Do you know that time for SC passing?

I do. 3:57pm

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[MassGuy]

Hmmm, I suppose I was being presumptuous after reading the article about his wife calling LE for assistance with getting him to the hospital for an evaluation and assumed he may be an alcoholic.

I’m not saying he’s definitely an alcoholic, I mean he has no DUI’s or anything (which could be a decent sign). But someone who has to go to the hospital to be evaluated at that age, may very well drink too much.

I just strongly think the killer needed something in his system to do something this so completely stupid and risky.

I’d love to know his drinking habits.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

That alcoholic thing is interesting. I’ve always believed the killer was under the influence because of how insanely risky it was. I could just imagine BG strolling along with a flask.

And I don’t buy that reasoning. You may be devastated by all of that, but your freedom takes precedence. I believe that is a guilty conscience.

Then the confessions followed.

This is what I thought 5 years ago. Wrong about history of petty crimes and drug abuse, but I did think he had to have been under the influence.


Post in thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91

Well, he certainly would have his hands full, a flask in one and a gun in the other. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

Well, he certainly would have his hands full, a flask in one and a gun in the other. IMO

That’s what pockets are for. The killer clearly had a lot in them.

 

[m00c0w]

Even if we remove the testimony she gave that she got an amber alert when she got home -- she STILL didn't bother to contact LE for a few weeks. I don't even think I can believe that she saw the guy she says she saw on the day she says she saw him.... because of the gap in reporting time. Nevermind the fact that she stated she saw a tan jacket and white wash pants... WHich does NOT match what RA was wearing, nor what other witnesses reported - moo.

"Baldwin asked how obvious the blood was. Carbaugh said the white-washed jeans made it more obvious. " - 'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

The thing is, her driving by that day can be independently corroborated. Before anyone knew much of anything about the crimes, she had already given a statement talking about the man she saw. This is before anyone knew the guy that would ultimately be charged parked at the old CPS building that day. This is before the 2019 press conference where they stated they were looking for the owner of a car at the CPS building and gave the first inklings of a real timeline. She was in the right place at the right time traveling in the right direction to see what she claims to have seen. She gave details very early on that align with facts the public did not know until years later.

Let's not forget she is also responsible for the OBG sketch, which I believe looks quite similar to RA. Especially for having just seen him for a few seconds as she was driving down the road, and remembering details like that several weeks later.

In order for her to have made all of this up, she would have had to gotten very lucky on several fronts. Almost as lucky as RA is unlucky in that scenario.

JMO

 

[technicallymissing]

Even if we remove the testimony she gave that she got an amber alert when she got home -- she STILL didn't bother to contact LE for a few weeks. I don't even think I can believe that she saw the guy she says she saw on the day she says she saw him.... because of the gap in reporting time. Nevermind the fact that she stated she saw a tan jacket and white wash pants... WHich does NOT match what RA was wearing, nor what other witnesses reported - moo.

"Baldwin asked how obvious the blood was. Carbaugh said the white-washed jeans made it more obvious. " - 'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

The phrasing of "white wash" pants was discussed extensively less than two days ago on the previous thread if you'd like to go back and read. It is clear that LE understood that Sarah was describing light-wash denim, however it was phrased on the stand or in initial interviews.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

Sarah also addressed her original description of the coat as "tan" when Baldwin asked her about it on Thursday. From above link:

Baldwin pointed out inconsistencies in her description of the clothes the man on the side of the road was wearing. Baldwin said that she originally said the jacket was tan and then switched to saying it was blue. Carbaugh said when she said tan she meant more brown and it was probably from the mud.

 

[shonyakay]

We don't know exactly how long he was walking along the road, but I'd say having a close encounter with SC in her car and being seen might have caused him to move more into the woods. I also think if he saw people in the parking area up ahead, he wouldn't just waltz right past them.

I have wondered if there is a video online somewhere that walks the exact route from the CS to the road and up to where he parked his car. I've seen a map, but it would be helpful to see someone actually walking it to see the terrain leaving the CS and where the most likely place to come out of the woods to the road is. It's really hard to get a feel for the entire area from a map and even seeing photos isn't always super clear on where there are steep hills or deep ravines or other obstacles.

If SC saw RA down by the cemetery walking Westbound I'm sure he wanted to get off of that road quickly. My theory is he crossed the street into that huge open field and went around the Mears' farm and behind Hoosier Harveststore to get to his parked car.

This would explain why he wasn't captured on the Hoosier Harveststore's camera.

 

[ClearAhead]

I believe she stopped to tell LE what she saw because she saw them stopping people and thought that was a sign from god that she should - that wasn't because she got an amber alert on the 13th:

"Carbaugh did not immediately come forward to talk with authorities. She eventually talked with local police investigators three weeks later. She said she had been traumatized by the murders. "My inaction was me overthinking and panicking. I was having a moment," she said.

Carbaugh saw a police officer at a roadblock in Delphi asking for tips regarding the case. She called that "a sign from God" to report what she saw that day." - Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 | 'Bridge Guy' sighting, autopsy photos, and digital forensics

I think we all know she mistook LE asking for tips as an Amber Alert.

Why is her mistake such a big deal?

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I’m not saying he’s definitely an alcoholic, I mean he has no DUI’s or anything (which could be a decent sign). But someone who has to go to the hospital to be evaluated at that age, may very well drink too much.

I just strongly think the killer needed something in his system to do something this so completely stupid and risky.

I’d love to know his drinking habits.

I cannot even imagine one person being able to commit this crime on their own, let alone someone under the influence of alcohol. IMO

 

[photographer4]

The thing is, her driving by that day can be independently corroborated. Before anyone knew much of anything about the crimes, she had already given a statement talking about the man she saw. This is before anyone knew the guy that would ultimately be charged parked at the old CPS building that day. This is before the 2019 press conference where they stated they were looking for the owner of a car at the CPS building and gave the first inklings of a real timeline. She was in the right place at the right time traveling in the right direction to see what she claims to have seen. She gave details very early on that align with facts the public did not know until years later.

Let's not forget she is also responsible for the OBG sketch, which I believe looks quite similar to RA. Especially for having just seen him for a few seconds as she was driving down the road, and remembering details like that several weeks later.

In order for her to have made all of this up, she would have had to gotten very lucky on several fronts. Almost as lucky as RA is unlucky in that scenario.

JMO

Is the man she saw on cam? I don't care if she happened to drive by on any given day really... what I care about is if she saw what she claimed she saw on the day she claimed to have seen it at the time she claimed to have seen it. She waited weeks to talk to LE - that doesn't help her credibility imo. She described someone who did NOT match what RA was known to be wearing that day imo.... So I don't have any faith in her as a witness.
In terms of the sketches - JG ruled they're not permitted, so I don't really care at this point what the sketches look like but since you brought it up, none of them resemble RA imo.

I found this particularly interesting: "
Baldwin mentioned a second follow-up interview from Carbaugh in which she said “mud” and not “blood.” Carbaugh responded that she did mention blood, but police didn’t write it down. She also said her videotaped interview was lost due to problems with the police’s recording system. The state has said some early interviews associated with the case were lost due to an error.
Baldwin gave her a transcript of an interview and asked where it said blood.
“I do not see it in here, but I do remember talking to the officer about it,” she said. https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-combative-testimony-from-another-bridge-guy-witness/

So there is no recording of her saying blood, no transcript of it... ok then... I'm sorry. I do not find this credible. Moooo.

 

[shonyakay]

We don't know exactly how long he was walking along the road, but I'd say having a close encounter with SC in her car and being seen might have caused him to move more into the woods. I also think if he saw people in the parking area up ahead, he wouldn't just waltz right past them.

I have wondered if there is a video online somewhere that walks the exact route from the CS to the road and up to where he parked his car. I've seen a map, but it would be helpful to see someone actually walking it to see the terrain leaving the CS and where the most likely place to come out of the woods to the road is. It's really hard to get a feel for the entire area from a map and even seeing photos isn't always super clear on where there are steep hills or deep ravines or other obstacles.

Closest I could find.

 

[ClearAhead]

I’m not saying he’s definitely an alcoholic, I mean he has no DUI’s or anything (which could be a decent sign). But someone who has to go to the hospital to be evaluated at that age, may very well drink too much.

I just strongly think the killer needed something in his system to do something this so completely stupid and risky.

I’d love to know his drinking habits.

I agree 100%, interpret the crime scene to be signatures or whatever but whoever committed this crime was not of sound mind. This is why it’s impossible to make sense of why he did it, why Abby was dressed twice, how the branches were laid, everything. Alcohol, drugs, untreated mental illness or a combination thereof.

A frenzy of craziness IMO and nothing I’ve know about the case so far will change my mind. MOO

 

[KSwizzle]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe SC said she saw this individual for 30 seconds, that’s not a glance or a passing gaze, that is a very significant amount of time to observe someone while you’re driving a car, and she still gave the testimony of the clothing not being the same

 

[Warwick7]

Never have watcged this before.
I am pretty impressed.

 

[INfisherman]

I do. 3:57pm

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

He couldn’t have known the camera was there if that was his vehicle that was captured on video. He either found a way north & fields not as muddy as wooded area or got lucky again & group was gone & he ducked in & out just enough along 300N to not be seen. One thing to note is the fields might not have been as difficult to traverse if winter wheat was planted in those fields. Wheat isn’t planted in rows like corn or beans & if planted around typical harvest time, it will be above ground before freezing. Wheat wouldn’t be dried out, but still mature enough to help prevent sinking in mud.

One thing I do not recall much info thrown around was when the car at CPS was first noticed gone - even if hours later. Not as versed with the timeline, obviously. Was there anything after SC’s car?

Getting headache.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

The phrasing of "white wash" pants was discussed extensively less than two days ago on the previous thread if you'd like to go back and read. It is clear that LE understood that Sarah was describing light-wash denim, however it was phrased on the stand or in initial interviews.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

Sarah also addressed her original description of the coat as "tan" when Baldwin asked her about it on Thursday. From above link:

Baldwin pointed out inconsistencies in her description of the clothes the man on the side of the road was wearing. Baldwin said that she originally said the jacket was tan and then switched to saying it was blue. Carbaugh said when she said tan she meant more brown and it was probably from the mud.

Backpedaling.

 

[m00c0w]

Is the man she saw on cam? I don't care if she happened to drive by on any given day really... what I care about is if she saw what she claimed she saw on the day she claimed to have seen it at the time she claimed to have seen it. She waited weeks to talk to LE - that doesn't help her credibility imo. She described someone who did NOT match what RA was known to be wearing that day imo.... So I don't have any faith in her as a witness.
In terms of the sketches - JG ruled they're not permitted, so I don't really care at this point what the sketches look like but since you brought it up, none of them resemble RA imo.

I found this particularly interesting: "
Baldwin mentioned a second follow-up interview from Carbaugh in which she said “mud” and not “blood.” Carbaugh responded that she did mention blood, but police didn’t write it down. She also said her videotaped interview was lost due to problems with the police’s recording system. The state has said some early interviews associated with the case were lost due to an error.
Baldwin gave her a transcript of an interview and asked where it said blood.
“I do not see it in here, but I do remember talking to the officer about it,” she said. https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-combative-testimony-from-another-bridge-guy-witness/

So there is no recording of her saying blood, no transcript of it... ok then... I'm sorry. I do not find this credible. Moooo.

BBM

Yes, actually. She testified that the guy in LG's video is the guy she saw. Just like BB and the girls.

It's possible that she's part of some vast conspiracy to frame little Ricky and was able to say the exact things needed to say to implicate him before he even became a suspect... but I have reasonable doubt about that.

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

I’m not saying he’s definitely an alcoholic, I mean he has no DUI’s or anything (which could be a decent sign). But someone who has to go to the hospital to be evaluated at that age, may very well drink too much.

I just strongly think the killer needed something in his system to do something this so completely stupid and risky.

I’d love to know his drinking habits.

The pool video at the pub is interesting. I didn’t notice RA drinking but it looked like his wife was hovering around to supervise him. There’s not many people who hang around pubs who are adamant abstainers. No other friends or associates spoke out about RA after his arrest but for the pub people. Not to judge but that video alone leans me toward believing alcohol was a big factor in his life. MOO

 

[m00c0w]

Backpedaling.

We know the video still of BG was released on February 15. She states that she saw the photo of the man, and recognized it as the guy she saw. She waited a few weeks to tell police because she was afraid.

If her intent was to manufacture a story and ultimately adjust the color of the coat she saw to the coat BG was wearing... why would that have not happened in the first or second interview? The premise doesn't make a lot of sense if the allegation is she's just shifting her statements to match the photo for reasons unknown. She had already admittedly seen the photo.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 | 'Bridge Guy' sighting, autopsy photos, and digital forensics

Day 5 of the Delphi Murders trial included testimony from a witness who claims to have seen "Bridge Guy" on the day Abby Williams and Libby German went missing.

www.wrtv.com

Man in photo now considered a suspect in double homicide - Carroll County Comet

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby released an update Sunday, Feb. 19, about the ongoing double homicide investigation of the two Delphi Community Middle School teens, which began early last week. “At approximately 12:15 p.m. on Feb. 14, the bodies of Abigail J. Williams, 13 and Liberty...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

 

[EllaMinnowP]

The thing is, her driving by that day can be independently corroborated. Before anyone knew much of anything about the crimes, she had already given a statement talking about the man she saw. This is before anyone knew the guy that would ultimately be charged parked at the old CPS building that day. This is before the 2019 press conference where they stated they were looking for the owner of a car at the CPS building and gave the first inklings of a real timeline. She was in the right place at the right time traveling in the right direction to see what she claims to have seen. She gave details very early on that align with facts the public did not know until years later.

Let's not forget she is also responsible for the OBG sketch, which I believe looks quite similar to RA. Especially for having just seen him for a few seconds as she was driving down the road, and remembering details like that several weeks later.

In order for her to have made all of this up, she would have had to gotten very lucky on several fronts. Almost as lucky as RA is unlucky in that scenario.

JMO

BBM
I don’t think she made up a story that she saw a man that day, with (at the very least) muddy clothes. Isn’t she, however, one who admitted that her description of the man she saw was likely influenced by the picture of BG, since she recognized the photo as being the man she saw that day?