Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

[MassGuy]

This is after that phone call to his mom quoted above:

After the call played, McLeland told the court there have been some “issues” with Allen since he’s been moved to the Cass County Jail. He talked about a video of Allen screaming at guards and yelling he’s “going to **** kill them.”

Rozzi quickly objected and said the video wasn’t in discovery, leading to a sidebar. Gull had the jury taken out of the courtroom at 1:51 p.m. It appeared the defense hadn’t had time to review the interview, so counsel watched in court outside the presence of the jury.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/i-did-it-do-you-still-love-me-jurors-hear-allens-phone-call-confessions-in-delphi-murders-trial/

 

[AugustWest]

I'd wondered similarly, particularly since I know very little about how, for example, amicus and sub judice rules apply in the US.

I was pretty shocked by the seeming ethical violations and also the diagnostic elasticity of the clinical psych yesterday --distinctly at odds with the oath and professional obligations I hold dear, and I'm baffled by how she seems to have been approved as an expert witness, in light of qualifications and ongoing investigations. A witness, perhaps, but an expert? She seems to have vacillated between diagnoses of RA as genuinely experiencing psychosis and "faking" symptoms of same, the shredding of original notes as a standard of her clinical practice (!!! I shared this one with my surgical colleagues), listening in on phone calls and the apparent recanting or reframing of substantial parts of her original diagnosis.

Yes, the confessions are damning but should she ever have testified? Again, not a lawyer but struck me as a properly contentious topic.

It's an odd thing. I think RA is almost certainly BG and almost certainly guilty. But so much about this case and trial seems wayward from the POV of evenhandeness. Is this feeling illusory? Or are there genuine issues with the way this case and trial are being handled (setting aside the theatrics and hyperbolic narratives, etc)?

Indiana has a statutory provision allowing for disclosure of confessions in homicide trials.

https://law.indiana.edu/instruction/tanford/b723/11priv/R11.pdf

I have no idea how it jibes with Massiah v. U.S. (1964), but apparently it does, or hasn't been challenged yet.

Including a wiki of Massiah for those who don't understand/know about it.

Massiah v. United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MiniMoo]

both Richard and Kathy seem like Alpha manipulators. also she is not in classic denial..she is focused on the outcome she wants at any cost. so she kind of seems like doesn't care what he did...she is only pretending this whole business of you are not well, etc. alcoholism can be a factor in this behavior...mOO

Seems to me like they are a husband and wife that deeply care for one another, and that the man he was like in those first two interviews back in 2022, is nothing like the man on those phone calls.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[FromGermany1]

^Portions SBM

IMO, drinking alcohol could also affect RA’s voice.
Wouldn’t surprise me a bit if he sounded the same drunk as he did on Haldol.

jmo

I think, also the situation (just threatening 2 girls and not wanting to be heard by others than the girls) made RA's voice change a bit, not speaking of the beers and maybe a cigarette. It wouldn't have been his usual voice, I believe. In addition, he was speaking out in the open, on a (windy?) high bridge, not in a closed room and by phone. It is not comparable, IMO.
Though I would like to hear his voice at least one time.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Lil Ricky still acting out:

View attachment 542095Delphi Murders trial: Day 12 live blog

There he is. The real Richard Allen, screaming and threatening to kill a guard. So it wasn’t just harsh prison conditions that caused him to act out.

I really don’t get the infantilizing of RA, when we hear he sits in court and laughs.

jmo

 

[TristanP]

It was all from testimony yesterday from Dr. Wala. It has all been posted here in various updates from people in the courtroom.

Thanks, had a busy day yesterday and wasn't able to get updated on much.

 

[Betty P]

She genuinely seems to believe he's innocent, and everything he says she chalks up to mental health issues. I can't fathom that mindset ever allowing her to recognize that voice as her husband's.

JMO, but she's probably come closer to accepting it by now. At the time of his arrest it was probably overwhelming, a powerful state of denial. Think about what she was having to accept - that her husband might have committed the most heinous, horrible crimes in the history of the small town where she lived and worked. Her life, as she knew it was going to be over. It's that feeling of "my life will never be the same", that everything you thought your future was going to be is out of your control, wiped away completely and replaced with a living nightmare.

 

[Lilbirdie]

I wish I knew a statistician.
I would love to know the odds of RA fabricating a made-up confession, in any state of mind, that included a van…..and the fact that an actual van rambled close to where the crime was happening.
Astronomical I would imagine.

I am a statistician . And I think he’s cooked. I’ve been trying to put the pieces of this bizarre crime together for years and his story is the first one I heard that makes sense and ties it all together.

 

[MassGuy]

There he is. The real Richard Allen, screaming and threatening to kill a guard. So it wasn’t just harsh prison conditions that caused him to act out.

I really don’t get the infantilizing of RA, when we hear he sits in court and laughs.

jmo

The counterpoint is that we don’t know when this was. If it was close to the time of his transfer, the defense can simply argue that he’s still suffering the mental damage of his prison incarceration.

They’ll probably argue that anyway, but it’ll be much more effective for the prosecution if this is recent.

 

[tlcya]

ah, I see, so this newest video the state wants to play was from a time period after RA was moved from the "torturous and inhumane" (per defense) conditions at the prison to the Cass County Jail.

So I imagine it was probably not in discovery, depending on how recently this incident occurred.

 

[Jade]

I totally disagree. He seemed completely chaotic and detached from reality in those phone calls. A crazy man saying he is well means nothing. Did you not the multitudes of statements he made about losing his mind and saying he doesn’t understand?

It was some of both with plenty of "I killed Abby and Libby".

Did you not see the testimony that he is a tantrum throwing faker?

RA has made perfectly sane confessional statements in the proper setting at the proper time.

Most importantly his representation has never put him forth as not competent so I only have their word for it.
For the sake of conversation I prefer to go with the known facts:
RA is not “crazy” according to his attorneys.

Richard Allen is being presented in court as competent to have participated throughout in his own defense and to attend his trial to continue to assist.

Any “doesn’t understand” more reflects on his attorneys lack of focus to his case in favor of their scheme, imo.

RA doesn’t understand why they won’t listen to him and let him sign the confession as he says he wants to do, imo.

all imo

 

[justtrish]

There he is. The real Richard Allen, screaming and threatening to kill a guard. So it wasn’t just harsh prison conditions that caused him to act out.

I really don’t get the infantilizing of RA, when we hear he sits in court and laughs.

jmo

This the RA that Libby and Abby saw in their last moments. IMO

 

[CHEL]

Did I just read he was eating his own fecus and rolling in it?

 

[MassGuy]

ah, I see, so this newest video the state wants to play was from a time period after RA was moved from the "torturous and inhumane" (per defense) conditions at the prison to the Cass County Jail.

So I imagine it was probably not in discovery, depending on how recently this incident occurred.

Ha! Just imagine how damaging it will be if it was around the time of trial.

He’s-sitting there all docile, juxtaposed by a video of his jail behavior.

 

[detectivewannab]

ah, I see, so this newest video the state wants to play was from a time period after RA was moved from the "torturous and inhumane" (per defense) conditions at the prison to the Cass County Jail.

So I imagine it was probably not in discovery, depending on how recently this incident occurred.

Anyone have a date?? This is awesome!

 

[arielilane]

@KylaBRussell

#NEW: Court was back in session at 1:34 p.m. We started back with prosecution making a phone call from Richard Allen to his mother in May of 2023. It had not been played earlier due to technical issues. Master State Trooper Brian Harshman is still on the stand. The prosecutor asks him if there have been issues with Allen in the Cass County Jail recently.

Harshman tells the jury, yes, he’s been restrained.

Then, McLeland asks Harshman if he watched a video over lunch today of Allen screaming and swearing, saying to a guard that he was going “f-ing kill him (or “them”).”

Rozzi objects, saying he was not aware of this evidence.

Attorneys request a sidebar. Judge Gull tells the jury they are going to take a break and the jury exits.
She tells Rozzi he has until 2:15 p.m. to watch the video.



2:05 PM · Oct 31, 2024

 

[Vaderman]

There he is. The real Richard Allen, screaming and threatening to kill a guard. So it wasn’t just harsh prison conditions that caused him to act out.

I really don’t get the infantilizing of RA, when we hear he sits in court and laughs.

jmo

From the little bit that we've heard about him, it sounds like he's got "little man syndrome".

 

[Inthedetails]

Seems to me like they are a husband and wife that deeply care for one another, and that the man he was like in those first two interviews back in 2022, is nothing like the man on those phone calls.

JMO MOO JMT

He ditched his mom and sister and instead of joining them for lunch, he drank beer and killed two girls on his wife's day off of work.

jmo

 

[MiniMoo]

He ditched his mom and sister and instead of joining them for lunch, he drank beer and killed two girls on his wife's day off of work.

jmo

Give the Defense some time for their turn as we need to weigh up both sides fairly.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[minor4th]

Did I just read he was eating his own fecus and rolling in it?

Yes, but apparently “faking” mental health problems according to the guards and sometimes his psychologist ::eye roll::