Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

[Vern]

Looks like I've missed a very busy and exciting day on this thread.

No way to really catch up over 40+ pages, so skimmed every 2nd page and I come away with this take:

Hook: (Just a piece that nagged at my brain and hit me today while I travelled to Fredericton)
Richard Allen's Interview on 26 October 2022:

Allen, again, says there is no way a round from his gun was anywhere near the girls or the bridge.

***Why bring "the bridge" up Rick? No one knew about the full audio contents from the video taken by the girls on 26 October 2022. No one knew a gun was heard being racked, not even Rick, on that date. It is after Allen makes the above comment that Holeman brings up the "racking" of the gun to scare the girls, but still doesn't mention that it's caught on the audio of the video the girls took. I think this comment shows guilty knowledge" - he racked that gun on the bridge. Now Holeman knows it too. "I know you did this and I'm going to prove it." We, and Rick, didn't know about the gun was captured being racked until the PCA was released. IMO, Rick racked that gun, ejecting the round on that bridge and picked it up and shoved it in his pocket - that's why he brings "the bridge" into the cartridge discussion.

Line:
So many of them. No r**e. How did he know that? Self admittedly being at the right place at the right time in the same overdressed clothing. Overdressed BG is also the only man on the trails at the time as noted by witnesses who testify and insist "it is BG they saw". "That pic isn't me if it's from one of the girls' phones" instead of "that's not me". "Guilty Knowledge" of changing his timings to place himself outside the time of the crime. "Branches" vs. "Sticks". Disposes of his 'allegedly exonerating' 2017 phone - a break from his usual routine/habit of keeping them. Confessions - before and after discovery. Car passing HH camera. Lies to his wife by telling her he wasn't on the bridge that day. etc etc etc ... way too many 'coincidences' to be a 'reasonable coincidence' IMO.

Sinker:
He saw the van BW was driving arriving to check his parents place around the time BW would have gotten there. That's a detail that no one knew - that van as the mode of transport - so more "guilty knowledge". BW returned in a van. Confession details that he freaked out then killed the girls. The cell phone ceases all movement shortly thereafter; Abby on top of it. Libby was next. Did he drop the round during this ... he dragged Libby from the place where she died past Abby's legs and put her into the position he left her in - round falls out but he's stepped on it pushing it into the ground. Tosses on some branches. Did he realize he lost it then? Is that what he spent the rest of the time searching for before he headed up by the cemetary only to be seen by SC and duck back into the woods to head back to his car off trail? Did he not even realize he lost it? Perhaps thought he disposed of it with his jacket, perhaps hoped it fell out in the woods on the other side or in the creek ... until that interview on 26 October 2022 when he knew they had him and LE knew they had him.

______________
Odinists again!!?? Le siiiggghhhh.

All IMO.

 

[al66pine]

"According to pool notes shared with News 8, the jury is expected to view two hours of audio during Thursday’s session."
From

Delphi Murders trial: Day 11 live blog

Richard Allen, accused of murdering two teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana, is on trial and Day 11 of the trial began with testimony from several witnesses including Steve Mullin, John Galipeau, Ethan Drang, and Michael Clemons.

wishtv.com

Jury is expected to VIEW two hours of AUDIO on Thurs???

Hoping jurors have better vision than the rest of us. JK.

Okay, srsly, reporters are working under tight schedules. Ditto the editors.
Bless 'em. Tough situations.

 

[Niner]

snipped for focus...

His bail was set to 20 million. Even a bond would be like 2 million. Another point for the defense to pushed into mistreatment but they don’t need any more.

I have in my notes that he is being held without bond. Did that change somewhere along the way?? TIA! Got to keep my notes straight! LOL!

 

[Justoneoftheguests]

I’m finding it super hard to keep up with this thread now the trial has started. Is there somewhere where I can read an overview of evidence/testimony presented in the trial so far?

 

[heartandsoul]

The hoops you have to jump through to believe RA is innocent of this crime just keep growing. What will it take for people to believe him when he says he did it? I will reiterate my belief that the only unlucky ones that day out of the three of them were Abby and Libby.

 

[mrjitty]

I find the Doctor Walla discourse to be a bit OTT

First up, the fact that she was reading about the case online is irrelevant. For decades we have not worried or even known if a professional witness was reading about the case in the papers, or watching on tv. There is no evidence of bias simply because she listened to a Bob Motta or DTH podcast. If she'd been posting Odinist conspiracies online then it could call her credibility into question but we simply don't have anything like that.

Nor is there any evidence she caused RA to confess by feeding him info. That is simply wild speculation

The defence is properly impeaching her professionalism in that she improperly accessed the DOC database to check out KAK. But that is hardly evidence of bias against RA. Indeed maybe it indicates she believes him innocent? So not great from her, but IMO the weight to give to it is approximately zero.

On notes - her practise was exactly what i was taught in the 90s. I took scribbled notes in the meeting which were an aide memoire to create a much more detailed file note i.e the notes were simply a shorthand version to trigger my memory to include far more detail. Sometimes i kept the handwritten notes on file but mostly not because my dictated version was always intended to be the final version of my contemporaneous note that might appear in Court (yes we always wrote them on the basis that a judge would read it).

IMO this is simply a devastating confession on it's face. She is not some devious guard with an incentive, or warden who is in on 'the plan' to break RA.

The corroborating details are also a disaster. No SA, no rape, the van.

Of course that won't stop the online conspiracists from attempting to shred this Doctor for her error of judgement.

MOO

 

[statt#1]

Today is the day I've been waiting for.

 

[oviedo]

I’m finding it super hard to keep up with this thread now the trial has started. Is there somewhere where I can read an overview of evidence/testimony presented in the trial so far?

You might try the media thread

Thread 'IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION #2'

Feb 21, 2017

Please post media maps & timelines here. *NO DISCUSSION*


MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trail

​

Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at High Bridge, just east of Delphi.

Police ID bodies of Indiana girls

Two bodies found along a northern Indiana stream are...

• Coldpizza
• Replies: 716
• Forum: Located Timeline and Media Links

• 
• 

 

[INfisherman]

I find the Doctor Walla discourse to be a bit OTT

First up, the fact that she was reading about the case online is irrelevant. For decades we have not worried or even known if a professional witness was reading about the case in the papers, or watching on tv. There is no evidence of bias simply because she listened to a Bob Motta or DTH podcast. If she'd been posting Odinist conspiracies online then it could call her credibility into question but we simply don't have anything like that.

Nor is there any evidence she caused RA to confess by feeding him info. That is simply wild speculation

The defence is properly impeaching her professionalism in that she improperly accessed the DOC database to check out KAK. But that is hardly evidence of bias against RA. Indeed maybe it indicates she believes him innocent? So not great from her, but IMO the weight to give to it is approximately zero.

On notes - her practise was exactly what i was taught in the 90s. I took scribbled notes in the meeting which were an aide memoire to create a much more detailed file note i.e the notes were simply a shorthand version to trigger my memory to include far more detail. Sometimes i kept the handwritten notes on file but mostly not because my dictated version was always intended to be the final version of my contemporaneous note that might appear in Court (yes we always wrote them on the basis that a judge would read it).

IMO this is simply a devastating confession on it's face. She is not some devious guard with an incentive, or warden who is in on 'the plan' to break RA.

The corroborating details are also a disaster. No SA, no rape, the van.

Of course that won't stop the online conspiracists from attempting to shred this Doctor for her error of judgement.

MOO

That’s what the D does. Part of their job to try & tear down what the P does. Sometimes that seems to get a bit personal when a witness is dealt with like that. They apparently love putting on their show.

I had to skip some posts to catch up. Any word on the motion the D filed (possibly SODDI again) or the P motion go to through RA Google/email (or whatever it was) search history?

JMO

 

[zh0r4]

Today is the day I've been waiting for.

Is there a specific reason you were excited about today?

 

[mrjitty]

That’s what the D does. Part of their job to try & tear down what the P does. Sometimes that seems to get a bit personal when a witness is dealt with like that. They apparently love putting on their show.

I had to skip some posts to catch up. Any word on the motion the D filed (possibly SODDI again) or the P motion go to through RA Google/email (or whatever it was) search history?

JMO

I agree it's their job - i was referring more to the takes that listening to a bob motta podcast meant you had zero credibility as a doctor giving testimony. It makes no sense. If she watched a documentary about Delphi on TV, no one would care.

 

[Inthedetails]

The new poll is up.
Here are the results of the polls in the past few days.
Nothing seems to be really changing anyone's mind yet.

CLICK HERE TO TAKE THE NEW WEBSLEUTHS DELPHI POLL
At the end of court on 10/30 the results are;
Guilty and acted alone 80.2%
Guilty but had help 0.0%
Not Guilty 9.1%
I don't know 10.7%

At the end of court on 10/29 the results are;
Guilty and acted alone 63.4%
Guilty but had help 1.4%
Not Guilty 15.5%
I don't know 19.7%

At the end of court on 10/28 the results are;
Guilty and acted alone 60.5%
Guilty but had help 2.3%
Not Guilty 12.8%
I don't know 24.4%

At the end of court on 10/26 the results are;
Guilty and acted alone 69.6
Guilty but had help 3.2%
Not Guilty 12.0%
I don't know 15.2%

At the end of court on 10/25 the results are;
Guilty 72.1%
Not Guilty 8.6%
I don't know 19.3

At the end of court on 10/24/24 the results are;
Guilty 68.1%
Not Guilty 9.4%
I Don't Know 22.5%

I think that shows significant change over time.

We don't know what the jury is thinking, but we do know they are paying incredibly close attention to the testimonies and evidence. Unlike us, jurors entered this trial with a "clean slate," without expectation of what info would be presented. And if we're being swayed by evidence, I have to think they are too, and perhaps even more since they don't have conspiracies to cling to.

My prediction is this will be a guilty verdict.

jmo

 

[Bbgiraffe]

How so? What changed in his timeline as am not clear on that point.

Did the Discovery really hold information about the white van and BW.

If anyone has any idea about this it would be great to know.

JMO MOO JMT

Edited: To abbreviate name.

I just don't think he sifted through all that to find the stuff about BW and the van. BW didn't see anything why would that even be in the pages his attorney initially sent to him? I am just guessing that they didn't send all of it at once since I think I read it is like thousands of pages of discovery.

The info about BW which really had nothing to do with anything, until RA explained it to us. It all fits. The elevation change after he saw the white van.

We didn't know why he made them cross the creek and now we do.

My point is, the white van and BW weren't even important AT ALL until RA basically made them the last nail in his coffin. Why would his attorneys send him info that didn't matter. Or do people really think RA read through all of it and then came up with this?

 

[acehard]

I think that shows significant change over time.

We don't know what the jury is thinking, but we do know they are paying incredibly close attention to the testimonies and evidence. Unlike us, jurors entered this trial with a "clean slate," without expectation of what info would be presented. And if we're being swayed by evidence, I have to think they are too, and perhaps even more since they don't have conspiracies to cling to.

My prediction is this will be a guilty verdict.

jmo

IMO it will be around 90% after today

 

[mrjitty]

I just don't think he sifted through all that to find the stuff about BW and the van. BW didn't see anything why would that even be in the pages his attorney initially sent to him? I am just guessing that they didn't send all of it at once since I think I read it is like thousands of pages of discovery.

I think the info about BW which really had nothing to do with anything, until RA explained it to us. It all fits. The elevation change after he saw the white van.

We didn't know why he made them cross the creek and now we do.

My point is, the white van and BW weren't even important AT ALL until RA basically made them the last nail in his coffin. Why would his attorneys send him info that didn't matter. Or do people really think RA read through all of it and then came up with this?

Exactly. He sorted out a piece of the timeline for us.

The idea he did this by reading the discovery and figuring out something LE had not realised is of course wild speculation.

MOO

 

[Salah11]

If RA isn’t found guilty it would be a travesty to Justice.

 

[mrjitty]

IMO reasonable doubt for RA is going to mean establishing some kind of evidential foundation for leaving before 1.30 pm

At least enough to be reasonably possibly true.

Otherwise the business of second locations and female killers at 4.30am is just wild fantasy that no sane juror will take seriously.

 

[mrjitty]

If RA isn’t found guilty it would be a travesty to Justice.

He is obviously guilty. I think they have everything riding on a conspiratorial juror who buys into the LE fit up ideas. But even then, they need something for a juror to hang on to IMO. Some way for him to be elsewhere when it all goes down.

MOO

 

[shonyakay]

I just don't think he sifted through all that to find the stuff about BW and the van. BW didn't see anything why would that even be in the pages his attorney initially sent to him? I am just guessing that they didn't send all of it at once since I think I read it is like thousands of pages of discovery.

The info about BW which really had nothing to do with anything, until RA explained it to us. It all fits. The elevation change after he saw the white van.

We didn't know why he made them cross the creek and now we do.

My point is, the white van and BW weren't even important AT ALL until RA basically made them the last nail in his coffin. Why would his attorneys send him info that didn't matter. Or do people really think RA read through all of it and then came up with this?

Great post.

How was he able to go through all of that discovery he had access to in such a short time? If he made up his confession based on the discovery, he would have had to research it, compile it in chronological order, and then concoct a believable story that fits the timeline and corroborates details (i.e interruption/creek crossing), all the while he was completely out of his mind at the time according to the defense.

Yeah, not buying what they are selling and neither will the jury imo.

 

[zh0r4]

Not that this is wrong, but MOO Fox News isnt an allowed soirce.

My bad, I didn’t know that/thought it was MSM. It’s too late to edit my comment. Here is another link. @Niner this article says:

“Allen's initial bail was set at $20 million following his arrest. (The prosecutor said several days later that Allen is now being held with "no bond.")”

So it was initially $20 million, then no bond.

Judge worried for family's safety after sealing court docs in Delphi murders recused from case

Judge Benjamin Diener also begged state court administrators to help him deal with a brewing “storm” of requests for information.

www.wthr.com