Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

[MassGuy]

Option A: RA wasn’t using his phone like he said! He lied!

Or Option B: RA wasn’t there like he said!

Hmmmm. One seems more apparent to be correct than the other.

Yes, one certainly does seem more apparent to be correct than the other, as the evidence supports it.

He said he was there, putting himself there at the perfect time to commit the murders (sadly wearing the same clothes as BG). This was verified by a video capturing his car (almost certainly his), his own statements, and the verification from a particular group of witnesses (whose timeline jibed perfectly with his).

He's just walking along, with his head buried in his phone looking at stock quotes, as one does when going to watch fish (I've started using this one when my friends ask what I'm doing).

If anyone believes that, then God bless. But we don't have to make a call there. There is no evidence his phone puts him there that day. That indicates that his phone wasn't on his person, or just wasn't on. There was no looking at stock quotes. There was no watching fish. He was hunting, and didn't want police hunting him.

So it's option A.

 

[TristanP]

I can never forgive them for allowing the crime scene photos to be released on the internet. Never. That's the worst thing any defense attorney could do. JMO, it was not an accident.

Did you know that the charges were all dropped against Mitch Westerman? Why did that happen ?

 

[photographer4]

The MS are reporting that in their opinion both say RA (from the phone calls) sounds like BG. They admit that's not evidence, it's just their opinions. Word they used: gobsmacked.

Does anyone have a link to show that the state did a voice analysis of the voice on LG's video against RA? I'd be surprised if 3 words were enough for even software to make this determination. MOOOO

 

[susane7]

No wonder defense has worked hard to prevent the public from hearing his recorded voice.

Tom Webster said the same thing. He would vote not guilty before but said today that after listening his calls, the tone of the confessions, the voice and after the van confession, he would vote guilty. He have no doubts anymore that RA is BG. He said RA is very calm in the calls and doesn't appear someone psychotic and coerced. Lauren from Hidden True said the same thing - that RA is very calm and believable in his calls. She find the evidence from the state compelling but it can change after the Defense present their case.

 

[MiniMoo]

Surely you don't think Samuel Little's uncanny ability to remember details is typical of killers? Or, indeed, most non-killers?

Point is - he had a good memory even decades after the first victim and those details were only what the killer would know.


JMO MOO JMT

 

[MassGuy]

Did you know that the charges were all dropped against Mitch Westerman? Why did that happen ?

He reached a deal with prosecutors. If he successfully completed a pre-trial diversion program, the case would be dismissed.

Standard with misdemeanors like that, unfortunately.

Charges dismissed against man accused in Delphi murders evidence leak

Mitchell Thomas Westerman’s misdemeanor conversion charge has been dismissed by a Johnson County judge.

www.wndu.com

 

[photographer4]

I don't disagree with you. I would also guess from the terms used that he had a specific movie in mind and was attempting to find the title. I think that may have been why he clicked on that "65 best kidnapping movies" list, to see if it was there as opposed to just browsing for movies maybe, I've done similar things when trying to remember a movie.

I did think the subject matter, given what happened to Abby and Libby, was mildly- mildly- worth noting. More interested though in the "Delphi murders update" searched five times in a single week. That's a lot imo and I'm saying that as someone who's literally on a true crime website posting repeatedly on a thread about the murders.

It probably came up in conversation fairly often - the murders I mean. Who knows if it was because he'd had a convo with his wife or friends about the murders or whatever. The State didn't seem to suggest *why* he searched these things that I know of, so without context, I kinda don't really care what he searched. Mooo.

 

[MassGuy]

Tom Webster said the same thing. He would vote not guilty before but said today that after listening his calls, the tone of the confessions and after the van confession, he would vote guilty. He have no doubt anymore that RA is BG. He said RA is very calm in the calls and doesn't appear someone psychotic and coerced. Lauren from Hidden True said the same thing - that RA is very calm in his calls and find the evidence from the state compelling but it can change after the Defense present their case.

That's what I wanted to know about those calls, especially the damning one to his mom which was by far the strongest in terms of lucidity. If it sounded like it read, it's huge.

 

[TristanP]

Yes, one certainly does seem more apparent to be correct than the other, as the evidence supports it.

He said he was there, putting himself there at the perfect time to commit the murders (sadly wearing the same clothes as BG). This was verified by a video capturing his car (almost certainly his), his own statements, and the verification from a particular group of witnesses (whose timeline jibed perfectly with his).

He's just walking along, with his head buried in his phone looking at stock quotes, as one does when going to watch fish (I've started using this one when my friends ask what I'm doing).

If anyone believes that, then God bless. But we don't have to make a call there. There is no evidence his phone puts him there that day. That indicates that his phone wasn't on his person, or just wasn't on. There was no looking at stock quotes. There was no watching fish. He was hunting, and didn't want police hunting him.

So it's option A.

Who were those 3 people whose phone data for sure IS in our around the crime scene at the time the state alleges the girls were murdered? They had to have seen something. There’s no question THEY were there, but the state doesn’t want the jury to know about them. It’s quite confusing since they say they want all the facts known.

 

[Vern]

That white thing is bugging me, too.

IMO, in the pre-covid period of February 2017 on an unseasonably warm day while out walking overdressed on the MHB trails, probably just the white mask that witness descibed him as wearing and covering the lower half of his face.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Does anyone have a link to show that the state did a voice analysis of the voice on LG's video against RA? I'd be surprised if 3 words were enough for even software to make this determination. MOOOO

Respectfully, I am not sure whether you're indicating that the state should have done a voice analysis

or

Saying that such an analysis would have been useless anyway.

AFAIK you are correct--voice analysis needs more than three words. But I don't have a link so JMO

 

[Vern]

Option A: RA wasn’t using his phone like he said! He lied!

Or Option B: RA wasn’t there like he said!

Hmmmm. One seems more apparent to be correct than the other.

Option A: RA wasn’t using his phone like he said! He lied!

And Option B: RA was there just like he said. He just didn't want anyone to know what he was actually up to.

And Option C: I'll take both of the above for life in prison Alex.

Minor correction to the record IMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Who were those 3 people whose phone data for sure IS in our around the crime scene at the time the state alleges the girls were murdered? They had to have seen something. There’s no question THEY were there, but the state doesn’t want the jury to know about them. It’s quite confusing since they say they want all the facts known.

Those people were the same witnesses RA almost certainly spotted. They verified their presence using photos one of them had taken (if I recall).

The defense is privy to all of this stuff (witness statements, any investigation done into their accounts, etc).

What doesn’t the state want the defense to know about? I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

 

[INfisherman]

Except is it standard for a man absent an actual conviction to be in a prison... under these conditions? Not moo - that is a question.

2. It is against Indiana Law how he was held, and he isn't the first to experience this sadly.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/12/us/indiana-solitary-confinement-settlement-trnd/index.html

"Under Indiana law, a person can spend a maximum of 30 days in restrictive status housing, also known as solitary confinement or segregation, after which authorities must review whether the prisoner should remain there."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/12/us/indiana-solitary-confinement-settlement-trnd/index.html

"…..after which authorities must review whether the prisoners should remain there."

Genuinely asking due to my own ignorance. Does anyone know if these reviews did or did not take place in regards to RA? If so, is there a source that plainly states so? TIA

ETA in regards to RA

 

[Marie A]

Delphi murders suspect Richard Alle confessed to killings on multiple prison calls with wife: ‘I did it. I killed Abby and Libby’

Richard Allen, 52, confessed to the killings in multiple recorded calls to his wife — but his defense thinks he might be losing his mind in prison.

nypost.com

Disturbing.
His erratic behavior.
Ugh.

This whole case makes me so upset.
It’s definitely one of the worst ever imho

 

[katydid23]

In call to his mother, Richard Allen seemed to plead for love despite his confessions to Delphi murders​

In another call to his mother, Janis Allen, on May 17, 2023, Allen seemed to be anxious that his family would no longer love him because he'd confessed to killing Abby and Libby. Here's what they said:

Richard Allen: I'm just worried you guys aren't gonna love me because of the fact that I said that I did it."

Janice Allen: "Just saying it doesn't mean you did it."

RA: "Well, it does when I did."

JA: "Rick, don't talk like this. I know they're just messing with you."

RA: "No, mom. They're not."

JA: "... You don't have it in you to do something like that."

RA: "Mom, I wouldn't say I did it if I didn't."

RA: "So if I did it, then you guys don't love me anymore?"

JA: "I will always love you no matter that. There's nothing that would ever make me stop loving you."

Defense calls first 2 witnesses after state rests its case in Delphi murders trial

It's been two years since multiple law enforcement agencies announced Richard Allen's arrest in the Delphi killings. His trial continues Thursday.

www.indystar.com

I think this is pretty powerful. I cannot imagine hearing an admission like that from my son. It would be so devastating.

The jurors were hearing this in his own words, in his own voice, while under no duress.

He does not sound psychotic in this conversation, IMO.

I think that this kind of a confession places all of the other 'coincidences' and uncertainties into the Prosecution's favour.

The Defense is trying to create doubt that RA is actually BG, and doubt that the black Fiesta is actually RA's, and that the cartridge belongs to RA's gun, and doubt that Bloody/muddy guy is even RA. ...But some of the solid, genuine sounding confessions make those arguments seem kind of pointless, imo.

The D is in a rough position, IMO. They are busy pushing back on these circumstantial evidence arguments---that wasn't his car, it wasn't him on the trail, that bullet matches his bullets but wasn't from his gun, he is not BG, etc...

Meanwhile there are audiotapes of RA admitting all of the above---and so it makes the above arguments seem kind of irrelevant. I mean, RA is telling his wife, mother, therapist and the warden that it was his car backed in there, it was his cartridge, that was him on the bridge and he did force the girls down the hill.

I think those audio taped confessions are devastating for the Defense, IMO.

JA: "Rick, don't talk like this. I know they're just messing with you."

RA: "No, mom. They're not."

JA: "... You don't have it in you to do something like that."

RA: "Mom, I wouldn't say I did it if I didn't."

 

[Vaderman]

Murder Sheet says it was clarified during the trial today that the story of RA claiming he admitted to shooting the girls was not actually stated by RA but was reported by one of the inmate companions.

Murder Sheet

True Crime Podcast · Updated Semiweekly · The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covering true crime. We have broken national news on majo…

podcasts.apple.com

1:14 hr mark

 

[Betty P]

Samuel Little when he described some of his victims, even decades later, never forgot any of the details that only the killer would know.

He had a really good memory.

One time he was almost caught red handed by LE just after unaliving one victim inside his car, but because LE didn't look inside he went on for a number of decades before finally being caught.

He really seemed to like slender necks, but would recall body types, eye colours and even things like arguments or if things were going fine before strangling this one or that one. He remembered faces and maybe even names for some of them or he was able to put a face to a name.

When arrested he even took LE to some locations that he remembered to recover skeletal remains, if recoverable.

For me, Richard Allen's confessions lack intrinsic in-depth details.

JMO MOO JMT

Sorry, that opinion isn’t evidence.

 

[fred&edna]

Yeah we heard that with every other suspect. Here we are again imo.

Do you think the defense will bring up the aliens or stick with the Odinist theory? Or will they take the stage to declare everything in Indiana is corrupt?

 

[Vern]

Samuel Little when he described some of his victims, even decades later, never forgot any of the details that only the killer would know.

He had a really good memory.

One time he was almost caught red handed by LE just after unaliving one victim inside his car, but because LE didn't look inside he went on for a number of decades before finally being caught.

He really seemed to like slender necks, but would recall body types, eye colours and even things like arguments or if things were going fine before strangling this one or that one. He remembered faces and maybe even names for some of them or he was able to put a face to a name.

When arrested he even took LE to some locations that he remembered to recover skeletal remains, if recoverable.

For me, Richard Allen's confessions lack intrinsic in-depth details.

JMO MOO JMT

Just a reminder that RA and Little are not the same individual.

If everyone had a near photographic memory then none of us would ever have to study for exams. IMO.