Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

[vinayd]

Maybe the State won't be allowed now but can use this next week... when the D will no doubt talk about how RA was tased and manhandled.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

The reason I see it could be important is if the defense is going to use the excuse that his treatment in Wabash was horrible and caused his behavior and caused the mental issues and therefore caused him to confess.. well then if he's acting this way in the county jail also, I think it could go to show it wasn't the conditions causing the behavior or the confessions. This is who RA is. The defense tried to claim Odin prison guards intimidated him into confessing or that they treated him unreasonably in an attempt to break him and get him to confess. All of which is hogwash. They were allowed to run innocent people's names through the mud while trying to say their client was a victim and now their client is moved to a new better location (as they wanted) and he's now threatening to kill people. I think the only reason this video is being introduced at all is the defense's own attempts to twist facts into a narrative that makes their client the victim.

Or it could be argued that he was permanently scarred from his maltreatment and has severe mental health issues now- I’m not saying that’s true but I could see that angle being played- moo

 

[tlcya]

And it’s the way it was brought up that bugs me personally, the P knew they hadn’t given it to the D and yet they intentionally mentioned it, which is not ok and can’t be unheard or undone- I wish the whole investigation and case pretrial had been better and obvious that due process had been followed to a tee- but lost leads sheets, cleared leads, lost interviews, the appearance of bias, the severity of the pretrial conditions, the judge’s possible bias, etc whether intentional or not- real or imagined- could create doubt as to the integrity of the investigation and the trial -

And this has nothing to do with if I think RA is guilty or not- or how I explain certain evidence or not- and everything to do with due process and innocent until proven guilty BARD- it would be concerning to me as a juror- moo

I wish the DD tip hadn't been misfiled. I wish Todd Click had never been involved in this investigation and thrown his little fit when others in the investigation didn't believe his wild theory.

I wish RA's legal counsel hadn't spent months and months pursuing a defense of ritual murders and racist pagans sacrificing virgins in the woods spun from whole cloth. I wish, if they genuinely believed their client was having a mental health crisis, they had bothered to have him evaluated for same.

In a perfect world I wish the girls phone had captured better video of their killer. In a more perfect world I wish RA had never gone to the bridge that day.

If wishes were horses we'd all ride in style. But here is where we are.

 

[MassGuy]

Maybe the State won't be allowed now but can use this next week... when the D will no doubt talk about how RA was tased and manhandled.

Actually, I think that’s the right move. Gives them a trump card that they can use against those arguments that the prison conditions made him behave the way he did.

Not sure about the legal process here, but that play would in theory be a solid one.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I wish the DD tip hadn't been misfiled. I wish Todd Click had neve been involved in this investigation and thrown his little fit when others in the investigation didn't believe his wild theory.

I wish RA's legal counsel hadn't spent months and months pursuing a defense of ritual murder and racist pagan sacrificing virgins in the woods spun from whole cloth. I wish, if they genuinely believed their client was having a mental health crisis, they had bothered to have him evaluated for same.

In a perfect world I wish the girls phone had captured better video of their killer. In a more perfect world I wish RA had never gone to the bridge that day.

If wishes were horses we'd all ride in style. But here is where we are.

Truth! Agree to all of the above in my opinion-

I used this case to tell a couple of my kids why I needed their iCloud passwords so I could use the find my iPhone in case of emergency

 

[MiniMoo]

I haven’t seen enough information to make the determination that they cared deeply for each other.

But, if they did- can you imagine the shock of learning the man you loved deeply was capable of kidnapping two young girls and slitting their throats??

I'm wondering about the shock they both must have experienced since the day he was arrested and placed in solitary confinement with very little evidence on him.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852068944124710918

 

[arielilane]

I am a statistician . And I think he’s cooked. I’ve been trying to put the pieces of this bizarre crime together for years and his story is the first one I heard that makes sense and ties it all together.

The big picture is coming together for me as well. No loose ends at this time. moo

 

[dalsglen]

That’s the question. Say it was to show that he behaves the same regardless of the conditions in which he is held?

That he’s not psychotic yet he still behaves angrily?

I wonder if he behaved badly when he lost pool?

 

[Mitch1]

I must have missed it... did we have a confession on why he redressed them?

I do not believe he redressed them

 

[Inthedetails]

I wonder if he behaved badly when he lost pool?

My guess is that if he lost, it's because somebody nudged him, the table isn't level, the noise is too loud, the cue stick isn't straight, and it's a dumb game anyway so who cares about pool.



jmo

 

[dkaras]

During cross, Brad Rozzi said that “Van” was mentioned hundreds of times in discovery which Allen would’ve received
-Rozzi asked if Harshman believed Weber was credible and he said yes
-Defense indicated yesterday that they might have evidence to contradict Weber’s story


-Rozzi brought up that Allen was psychotic when making those statements and was received Haldol shots
-He suggested that Haldol would’ve affected his speech
-He also pointed out that Harshman has no training in psychology or speech patterns


-Rozzi also asked about problems with Allen’s specific confession such as the bullet falling out of the gun before the girls were taken down the hill
-Rozzi pointed out that Harshman was essentially surveilling Allen all the time

-Rozzi tried to bring up a call Allen made earlier in the day on April 3 where he proclaimed his innocence and said he felt like he was in Guantánamo Bay
-McLeland objected and they had to have a side bar with Judge Gull
-Broke for lunch, it’ll be redirect when we return

@MaxLewisTV

RSBM BBM...

I saw some of this in yesterday's reports too:
"Rozzi informed the jury..."

How does this work exactly? I thought P and D could only ask questions, not provide commentary or "inform" the jury?

 

[arielilane]

Another reporter's perspective:

@davebangert
Day 12, Delphi murder trial, lunch break wrap.

The morning was taken by audio recordings of Rick Allen calling his wife, Kathy, and his mother, Janis.
Also, ISP trooper who listened/monitored ~700 jail phone calls says the Bridge Guy saying ‘Down the Hill’ is Rick Allen 1/


The calls played for jury from Allen while at Westville Correctional Facility ranged Nov 2022-June 2023
In one in April 2023 Allen tells wife Kathy that he did it, ‘I killed Abby & Libby’
Kathy: no, you didn’t
Allen: yes, I did
Kathy: … They messed up your meds or something 2/



Another from May 2023…
Allen: I need you to know I did this
Kathy: what? No, no you didn’t. There’s no way. Dear, there’s no way …
Allen: But I have to let you know I did it 3/


In later calls, Kathy Allen continues to say Rick Allen is not well and that they must be doing something to get to him. He mentions frequently he’s already living in hell. Kathy, weeping and upset, tells him he can’t call if he keeps talking about this. 4/


In the recordings, Allen says he’s ready to tell investigators whatever they want to hear. He apologizes for putting Kathy through this and isn’t sure he’ll get to see her again. He says he’s not sure what’s going on. But he repeats that he killed Abby & Libby. 5/



ISP Trooper Brian Harshman testifies that info from a Westville psychologist was a recent discovery in the case, when Allen described to her that he was interrupted from a plan to assault the girls by a van that startled him on Feb. 23, 2017. 6/


Harshman said that led to Brad Weber, a nearby resident who testified Wednesday that he owned Ford Econovan and came home after a 20-25 min drive from his shift at Subaru that day. 7/



Asked by defense atty Brad Rozzi if Harshman would reconsider believing that timeline/theory if Brad Weber was shown to not be credible, Harshman said: No. 8/


Harshman also said that based on an enhanced version of video of Bridge Guy from Libby’s phone and on hundreds of hours of listening to Allen’s calls from his cell, ‘Down the hill’ “was the voice of Richard Allen.”

More later. @93wibc @localguydonnie http://basedinlafayette.com

 

[Jade]

A little snip of the Dr.'s look at the husband/wife relationship:

"On Nov. 25, 2022, Wala described Allen as "selfless" when it comes to his wife."

'I killed Abby and Libby': Jurors hear about Richard Allen's confessions, bizarre behavior

Dr. Monica Wala, Richard Allen's therapist at Westville Correctional Facility, testified he confessed many times, while feigning bizarre behavior.

www.jconline.com

Selfless seems a very good way to describe a person with the disorder, imo.

[…]
Allen, Wala said, also showed signs of dependent personality syndrome, a mental health condition that involves an excessive need to be taken care of by others.
[…]
On Nov. 25, 2022, Wala described Allen as "selfless" when it comes to his wife.
[…]
>>>>
From hyperlink above criteria for Dependent Personality Disorder:
[...]
Difficulty making daily decisions without an excessive amount of advice and reassurance from others.

Needing others to be responsible for the most important aspects of their life.

Difficulty disagreeing with others because they fear the loss of support or approval.

[…]

'I killed Abby and Libby': Jurors hear about Richard Allen's confessions, bizarre behavior

all imo

 

[AugustWest]

RSBM BBM...

I saw some of this in yesterday's reports too:
"Rozzi informed the jury..."

How does this work exactly? I thought P and D could only ask questions, not provide commentary or "inform" the jury?

By use of leading questions, which you are allowed on cross-examination.

 

[otto]

A little snip of the Dr.'s look at the husband/wife relationship:

"On Nov. 25, 2022, Wala described Allen as "selfless" when it comes to his wife."

'I killed Abby and Libby': Jurors hear about Richard Allen's confessions, bizarre behavior

Dr. Monica Wala, Richard Allen's therapist at Westville Correctional Facility, testified he confessed many times, while feigning bizarre behavior.

www.jconline.com

I am very surprised to hear a psychologist state that a man who repeatedly threatens suicide, while demanding that his wife accept his criminal activity, is "selfless". It's more likely that he feels hopeless, which triggers manipulative and demanding behaviour.

"Despite their impact on interpersonal relationships and health resources, suicide threats are not often studied in those with borderline personality disorder (BPD).
...

Results from this study show that, when examined independently, all the hypothesized inner states and interpersonal behaviors selected predict the presence of a suicide threat over time. When examined in a multivariate manner, two inner states (feeling abandoned and hopeless) and two interpersonal behaviors (being manipulative and demandingness) remained significant predictors of suicide threats."​

Predictors of Suicide Threats in Patients with Borderline Personality Disorder Over 16 Years of Prospective Follow-up - PMC

Despite their impact on interpersonal relationships and health resources, suicide threats are not often studied in those with borderline personality disorder (BPD). The primary aim of this study was to examine clinically relevant predictors of ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Mitch1]

So if I didn’t know whose witnesses were on the stand the past 2 weeks I would have surmised that they were witnesses for the defense! Just saying!

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852073264807346679

 

[arielilane]

#UPDATE: About 20 minutes into the afternoon session of the Delphi trial there’s been a hiccup of some kind.Started when Prosecutor McLeland asked the witness about a video of Mr. Allen in the Cass County Jail where he apparently became irate and was banging on his cell door.


The witness, Master Trooper Harshman, viewed the video over lunch. It apparently has Mr. Allen saying “I’m going to f..ki.g kill you” to the guards. Defense Attorney, Brad Rozzi objected, and said the video was not in discovery.There was a sidebar with Judge Gull.


When they returned from their sidebar Judge Gull sent the jury out. It appears as though she is giving the defense team time to review the video. We’ll see what happens next, court reconvenes at 2:15 PM



#UPDATE: About 20 minutes into the afternoon session of the Delphi trial there’s been a hiccup of some kind.Started when Prosecutor McLeland asked the witness about a video of Mr. Allen in the Cass County Jail where he apparently became irate and was banging on his cell door.

@MaxLewisTV

 

[minor4th]

@minor4th

Should this video be allowed?

I don’t know what’s on the video, but if it’s just him yelling at a guard and threatening to kill him, then no it shouldn’t be allowed. It really has no probative value.