Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #208

[minor4th]

But it is misleading to call it 'solitary confinement' if the inmate has a personal tablet in their cell which can call out to family, friends and attorneys whenever they want. IMO

Solitary implies the inmate is cut off from any contact and kept isolated. That is not how RA was treated. He could reach out to family whenever he desired. He had his therapist visit every single day. He had trustees sitting at his cell door 24/7 to watch over him.

While there is no universally agreed definition of solitary confinement – often also called ‘segregation’, ‘isolation’, ‘lockdown’ or ‘super-max’ – it is commonly understood to be the physical isolation of individuals who are confined to their cells for 22 to 24 hours a day, and allowed only minimal meaningful interaction with others.

Contact with family or visitors is often restricted or denied altogether, despite the fact that contact with family in particular, has been shown to be an important factor in successful rehabilitation.

Solitary confinement - Penal Reform International

Excessive use of solitary confinement in prisons around the world is becoming an increasing concern.

www.penalreform.org

The part that you bolded - isolated and confined to cell for 22-24 hours a day with only minimal meaningful contact with others. That perfectly describes the circumstances RA was in. I don’t know why there’s any dispute about this - all of the parties and witnesses are referring to it as solitary confinement.

 

[minor4th]

Richard Allen is not alone being held in Pretrial Detention in Indiana.

>
Indiana: Murder or treason shall not be bailable, when the proof is evident,or the presumption strong.
>

Pretrial Release: Detention

State constitutions and statutes establish the foundation of the pretrial release/detention framework in every state. Most individuals who are arrested are eligible to be released before trial, with 41 state constitutions containing a right to bail.

www.ncsl.org

In addition to that’s the way it is in Indiana;

RA’s Pretrial Detention is appropriate because he poses a danger to the community and/or is believed he would subvert justice by fleeing or committing suicide, imo.

It’s IN misfortune he is so high maintenance.

All imo

He’s not alone being held pre-trial, but he is alone in being held in a prison pre-trial.

 

[katydid23]

I saw him back in July of this year when he was being escorted - I was actually surprised at how short he was with those towering guards. First time seeing his height!

With him being so short I would have thought that would've been a description used by the witnesses as well.

JMO MOO JMT

You are talking about seeing him standing alongside other taller men. Of course you noticed his smaller stature.

But if you you were driving past him on a road, and he was walking alone, you wouldn't necessarily have that same reaction, IMO.

 

[photographer4]

I don’t buy this piecemeal approach to looking at evidence.
The dots are not hard to connect.

For me, the evidence didn't connect to RA BARD. Moo.

 

[MiniMoo]

This is a smart, sophisticated jury.

Great panel of jurors!

The jury asked Mill these questions:

• Did you see or hear any vehicles on the road under the bridge? Mill noted that the former railroad bridge goes over water.
• Did it take you 6 minutes to walk across? Mill said it took about 10 minutes.

The second defense witness was Teresa Liebert. She said she lives near Brad Weber, who police had questioned in their investigation of the girls’ deaths. She recalled what she described as a “strange” occurrence on the morning before the girls were reported missing: a man standing near the mailboxes at the driveway into the homes of herself and Weber. She also saw a parked car.

In cross-examination, Leibert said she’d never seen the man before or since that day.

The jury also had a question for Leibert:

• Could you have seen a high school student near the mailbox? Leibert said no.

Before court ended Thursday, according to notes from a pool reporter, Special Judge Fran “Gull has read a bit of third-party suspects but hasn’t set a timeline of whether she’ll rule on it yet.”

Delphi Murders trial: Day 12 live blog

Day 12 of the Delphi Murders trial begins with the jury expected to hear two hours of audio.

www.wishtv.com

I wonder why that witness was asked if it was a high school student, also, if it was odd to have a car on that side and man near their mailboxes why wasn't the car plate number written down, a description of that man or it being reported to the police - if it wasn't.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Peppery]

One thing I’ve wondered is how tall the witnesses are? If you’re 5 foot, a 5’4” man who is possibly wearing boots might not stand out to you as extremely short. But a 6’ man would likely notice the same person as a very short man.

 

[KentuckyMama]

Well I’ve seen it a fair few times…how many for you?

Same! I had one patient that was known for it. If you could hear him singing, "In the jungle, the mighty jungle.... the lion sleeps tonight"......we all would quickly either get real busy with another patient or hope you didn't lose *rock-paper-scissors. It was his Poop playing song. ((shudders)).

 

[Peppery]

You are talking about seeing him standing alongside other taller men. Of course you noticed his smaller stature.

But if you you were driving past him on a road, and he was walking alone, you wouldn't necessarily have that same reaction, IMO.

Jinx!

 

[TristanP]

Yes, after reading the description of his cell, amenities and activities, he was not in solitary confinement. Solitary is sensory deprivation for long periods of time. A small room with 24 hr a day lights and almost no contact with the outside world. No books, tv bed, windows, nothing.

I feel like the public has been lied to by the D, claiming he was in solitary. He wasn't.

Yes, this IS solitary confinement. I work in corrections.

 

[katydid23]

The part that you bolded - isolated and confined to cell for 22-24 hours a day with only minimal meaningful contact with others. That perfectly describes the circumstances RA was in. I don’t know why there’s any dispute about this - all of the parties and witnesses are referring to it as solitary confinement.

I don't think it is 'minimal' meaningful contact when he has a tablet 24 hrs a day which can call out to people. That does not seem minimal. IMO

And the reason he was confined is because he was suicidal and also was in danger from others because of the charges against him. So being confined was an obvious option, imo.

 

[photographer4]

I would, If I saw something of note, I could be a witness to something important that LE may need in investigating. I'd hope others would do the same if it was my loved one murdered, or anyone's. It would be the right thing to do. MO

I would, but absolutely not without my legal counsel present. mooo

 

[INfisherman]

I’ll say as an ICU RN, I have seen more poop smeared, played with, spread on walls/bodies and yes, eaten, than I ever could explain. It’s like when people are extremely stressed they revert to toddler/baby behaviors. Rarely is there a mental health diagnosis or suspicion of one. IME.

Don’t know how you folks do it. Hats off to you all. Feces isn’t my friend, at all & I do have a penchant for gross or tasteless humor but in reality? No thanks, noop, nuh-uh.

JMO

ETA all

 

[MiniMoo]

You are talking about seeing him standing alongside other taller men. Of course you noticed his smaller stature.

But if you you were driving past him on a road, and he was walking alone, you wouldn't necessarily have that same reaction, IMO.

I asked about the guards too because I wasn't sure.

If someone walked by my car with mud and blood I would have stopped to see if that person was okay or at the very least called the police.

Seems he was not too far from a group of people that day when SC drove by yet she did absolutely nothing. Not for 3 weeks.

We all react differently, of course.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hearing what people think solitary is, I’m reminded of the movie Pappillon with Steve McQueen lol It hasnt been that way for a long time, if ever, in the US.

Warden Galipeua has been kind of vague until now as to exactly how much time RA spent on suicide watch. He didn't even get regular clothes during those times. Nothing to sit on except the floor, toilet and a bed that's barely off the floor.

 

[TristanP]

RA put himself on the bridge. Out of his own mouth.

Sorry, can you remind me again how many other people were at the trails that day?

 

[Peppery]

Don’t know how you folks do it. Hats off to you. Feces isn’t my friend, at all & I do have a penchant for gross or tasteless humor but in reality? No thanks, noop, nuh-uh.

JMO

Much like I assume LE/COs do, you quickly get used to it and it’s by far not the worst part of the job. It’s interesting to me though how at a primal level, people are people.

 

[TristanP]

I asked about the guards too because I wasn't sure.

If someone walked by my car with mud and blood I would have stopped to see if that person was okay or at the very least called the police.

Seems he was not too far from a group of people that day when SC drove by yet she did absolutely nothing. Not for 3 weeks.

We all react differently, of course.

JMO MOO JMT

It's just hard to understand why she was so scared when she only saw mud the day she saw him, and didn't know she had seen blood until her 2nd interview with police IIRC. Mud's not scary.

 

[katydid23]

Well no. It’s not like that….maybe in the movies of yesteryear but progression and all that!

Here is the confusing part for me--the defense is saying that he was woefully mistreated, kept isolated, neglected, abused by the guards, driven to psychosis...etc.

But then we find out he had these amenities, which seem to negate the accusations the defense is making, about him being isolated with no human contact, IMO

 

[Boxer]

I’d have PTSD if I’d have murdered 2 young teens, more than likely.

JMO

Jury curious about RA’s custody arrangement:

The latest notes from Thursday’s pool reporter in the courtroom showed jurors asked questions of Indiana State Master Trooper Brian Harshman.

• Are people held in county jails or prison before trials? Harshman said, “Mostly county jails.”
• Did you listen to suspect Richard Allen’s confessions prior to April 3? Harshman said yes.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 12 live blog

Day 12 of the Delphi Murders trial begins with the jury expected to hear two hours of audio.

www.wishtv.com

Upon his arrest other inmates posed the greatest threat to RA's safety. Jails didnt have the level of segregation needed.
MOO After some time passed he was moved back to a jail.
A normal innocent person, would probably understand their life was in danger from other inmates until they were cleared.

 

[MiniMoo]

It's just hard to understand why she was so scared when she only saw mud the day she saw him, and didn't know she had seen blood until her 2nd interview with police IIRC. Mud's not scary.

Seems she was fiery and outspoken on the stand as well so am not sure either.

JMO MOO JMT