Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[INfisherman]

Why so?
Ultimately these are just members of the public. They make podcasts and YouTube videos but none of them are affiliated as far as I'm aware?
Independent press should be the first port of call should you want to get a non-objective and accurate report of what is going on in the court house.

True. I feel the same way. The trial isn’t decided by who sits in the gallery or not. However, it’s just another below the belt tactic being employed that frustrates some followers of the trial.

Seems to me like more planning & effort has been put into what goes on in the public rather than with a particular individual who’s charged with murder. If I were the fragile egg, I’d be boiling if I were aware of it.

 

[Tortoise]

I have to say, I think allowing the jury to ask admissible questions during the trial is really good.
Not sure it's allowed here in the UK but it really should be.

Having done jury service here in the UK I can confirm it is allowed here. Juror questions are handed to the judge, then passed to the parties before being put to the witness or answered by counsel or the judge, depending on the nature of the question.

However, not all questions can be answered, for example, why didn't one side produce a certain witness to give evidence.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I have to say, I think allowing the jury to ask admissible questions during the trial is really good.
Not sure it's allowed here in the UK but it really should be.

I agree 100%.

Until this trial, I wasn't aware of anyplace in the US where jurors were allowed to ask questions.

From everything I've read, these jurors are asking intelligent questions.

 

[sunshineray]

Why so?
Ultimately these are just members of the public. They make podcasts and YouTube videos but none of them are affiliated as far as I'm aware?
Independent press should be the first port of call should you want to get a non-objective and accurate report of what is going on in the court house.

And yet it's been the MM too that have misstated some things in error, example: Question to RA's daughter on the stand.

Q: Do you love your father?
A: (reported) "No"
Real factual answer: "Yes"
There have been others.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covering true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

 

[INfisherman]

And yet it's been the MM too that have misstated some things in error, example: Question to RA's daughter on the stand.

Q: Do you love your father?
A: (reported) "No"
Real factual answer: "Yes"
There have been others.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covering true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

That may have been one of the more surprising mistakes made, however given their limitations, the media seemed to do OK for the most part (at least in-state media outlets). They also seemed to report it neutrally, without obvious leans which was nice IMO

 

[sunshineray]

That may have been one of the more surprising mistakes made, however given their limitations, the media seemed to do OK for the most part (at least in-state media outlets). They also seemed to report it neutrally, without obvious leans which was nice IMO

Depends on the station, IMO I've seen half the story, half-truths of testimonies reported on numerous ones. MO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I agree 100%.

Until this trial, I wasn't aware of anyplace in the US where jurors were allowed to ask questions.

From everything I've read, these jurors are asking intelligent questions.

Yes!

<snipped>

The states that expressly encourage judges to allow jurors to question witnesses are Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Nevada and North Carolina. Out of these jurisdictions, Arizona, Florida, and Kentucky require that judges allow jurors to ask written questions. The respective highest state courts of Indiana and Kentucky have ruled jurors have a right to ask questions of witnesses.

Questioning of Witnesses by Jurors – Courts.

 

[steeltowngirl]

And yet it's been the MM too that have misstated some things in error, example: Question to RA's daughter on the stand.

Q: Do you love your father?
A: (reported) "No"
Real factual answer: "Yes"
There have been others.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covering true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

Also, MSM misreport of scolding jury vs gallery. Big difference. I guess mistakes happen, but it is frustrating.

jmo

 

[katydid23]

So no depo or report?

nope---I think this expert was brought in very late because their original ballistics expert was denied by Judge G, as unqualified as an expert.

I think the Judge just allowed this one in because she cannot deny everything

 

[mrjitty]

nope---I think this expert was brought in very late because their original ballistics expert was denied by Judge G, as unqualified as an expert.

I think the Judge just allowed this one in because she cannot deny everything

I meant the phone expert

I was trying to understand how the D expert makes an extraordinary headphones claim whereas the state doesn't have anything about this in their EIC, nor substance in rebuttal.

Usually through mutual discovery, both sides can anticipate what the other will argue.

Seems like this came as a surprise.

MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

The still frame picture of BG was first released on February 15, 2017. RA called to give a tip the next day on February 16. However he didn't actually talk to DD until February 18.

Do we know which of these events came first?

RA told KA he’d been at the trail.
BG photo released.

 

[katydid23]

Why so?
Ultimately these are just members of the public. They make podcasts and YouTube videos but none of them are affiliated as far as I'm aware?
Independent press should be the first port of call should you want to get a non-objective and accurate report of what is going on in the court house.

True, but the problem is that the press has been doing a very quick summary, rather than an in depth review of the testimonies.

While many of the podcasters have done very detailed, nuanced reports. Murder Sheet, for one example, really connects the dots, adds in important clarifications.

 

[m00c0w]

I meant the phone expert

I was trying to understand how the D expert makes an extraordinary headphones claim whereas the state doesn't have anything about this in their EIC, nor substance in rebuttal.

Usually through mutual discovery, both sides can anticipate what the other will argue.

Seems like this came as a surprise.

MOO

I believe one of the state’s initial objections was that they were not provided her report in discovery, but they eventually relented and agreed to have it admitted.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

I meant the phone expert

I was trying to understand how the D expert makes an extraordinary headphones claim whereas the state doesn't have anything about this in their EIC, nor substance in rebuttal.

Usually through mutual discovery, both sides can anticipate what the other will argue.

Seems like this came as a surprise.

MOO

I bet it did come as a surprise. I just hope the P can button it up at rebuttal.

 

[INfisherman]

Depends on the station, IMO I've seen half the story, half-truths of testimonies reported on numerous ones. MO

They probably didn’t help each other much by not comparing notes before going to print. They would have been much more effective in telling a more complete story IMO. I understand why they wouldn’t though - they want to be first with any "shockers". I’m usually the last person to have much good to say regarding MSM. JMO & has no bearing on anything.

I appreciate all the regular followers here explaining things in detail, both on P & D side. Helped to color a more complete picture in some instances.

ETA not comparing, context

 

[mrjitty]

I bet it did come as a surprise. I just hope the P can button it up at rebuttal.

Ah - do they get another go around?

I must say I do find it so funny how much pre-trial handwringing there was about discovery then at trial stuff is being discovered on the day which has happened in virtually every US trial i have followed.

 

[iamshadow21]

Yes!

<snipped>

The states that expressly encourage judges to allow jurors to question witnesses are Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Nevada and North Carolina. Out of these jurisdictions, Arizona, Florida, and Kentucky require that judges allow jurors to ask written questions. The respective highest state courts of Indiana and Kentucky have ruled jurors have a right to ask questions of witnesses.

Questioning of Witnesses by Jurors – Courts.

It's allowed in Colorado, too. Lots of good questions from the jury in Gannon's case.

MOO

 

[zh0r4]

My guess is they're going to try to imply that the photos and the video of RA/BG from that day were somehow manipulated and placed on the Libby's phone.

Which, yeah, no.

MOO

Yea, no, that is not at all what they were implying.

The headphones were *physically* plugged in to Libby’s phone by someone after the girls were dead (according to the state). This means the phone couldn’t have been sitting at the crime scene under a body if headphones were physically being plugged in to Libby’s phone. A couple of explanations could be 1. Someone else plugged the headphones into Libby’s phone. 2. Libby plugged the headphones into her phone bc she was still alive. Regardless, if the jury is to believe the state’s timeline, this makes zero sense-i.e. the phone was under a deceased victim this entire time….this is obviously not true, as headphones were being physically plugged into the phone hours later by someone. If it was not Libby and was the perp, then why on earth would they have left the phone at the crime scene? It is simple and not some “CIA operation” “conspiracy theory” as you say.

JMO.

Source:
Edit to add timestamp 2:01:34

 

[mrjitty]

As @m00c0w pointed out, obviously no headphones were plugged in, or they'd be activity on the phone

We know this didn't happen by thinking about it for 10 seconds

But I agree the prosecution don't look good by not having this in EIC. Like do they even agree the extraction shows this?

MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I want to KNOW the TRUTH.

Same. About ALL of it.
Will we ever really know the factual truth?

RA may go to prison for life.
Some people will believe he was guilty and he’s where he belongs.
Others will believe an innocent man was railroaded, and the killer is still out there.

RA may walk.
Some will believe he was innocent and celebrate his freedom.
Others will believe he was guilty and a killer is back on the streets.

We may never have 100 percent certainty of the truth.
It’s all about justice, whatever that really means.

At the end of the day, Libby and Abby will still be gone.
Whatever is decided, they aren’t coming back.

jmo