Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[Boxer]

Who hires them? If it is an outside agency, then imo, the onus is on them to be sure of who they're sending to see patients.

Bottom line, its the tax payers who are paying for services for the incarcerated population in an attempt to get them on a more positive track before they get out.

 

[mrjitty]

This was in April when he was giving all of those confessions. If he lacked the capacity to consent to treatment, I’d argue he would have also been incapable of making a rational and voluntary confession.

something that was strange is the defence didn’t seem to clearly make this argument at the suppression hearing.

moo

 

[Spartygirl]

I'm no fan of RA but his attorneys did him a real disservice IMO. He was never a stable, ordinary CVS worker. He was fragile, volatile, needy, and as such, dangerous. He brought that to the bridge, he carried it until he was arrested and he brought it with him into his cell.

It might have been an act of mercy (and law) to broker a guilty plea, on his behalf. No theatrics, no threats. In prison, RA will have access to therapy, medical care, perhaps AA or something of the kind. He will likely be afforded a one-man cell, for even if he's no longer a risk to himself or staff (something that can still change on a dime), he will always be a risk in gen pop, two-fold. Prison justice is real, but also, he's easily provoked. He needs to be protected from that if he's to live out LWOP and die of natural old age, whenever that might be.

He wanted to confess and he was blocked. His family wouldn't believe him, wouldn't talk to him, his attorneys were basically vacant, working apart from him and arguably against his free will. Inventing harmful, fanciful tales, incriminating innocent people, all while their client couldn't handle the truth of what he'd done and the fear he'd effed up too far this time. And yet, he set his sights on eternity, even considered he might have to let KA go...

The conflict was never Odinism, guards, name-your-conspiracy. The conflict was always RA. RA himself, a deeply conflicted man, who needed to feel powerful that day, for reasons we may never know, and it ended in the brutal slaughter of two beautiful young lives.

There is no sorry to repair that. But a confession and a guilty an entire year ago would have spared everyone this profane circus.

FRANKly, his attorneys should have listened to him.

I am ready to turn the page on him. Abby and Libby, their lives, their laughter, and the lives they should be living -- that will stick with me.

Bring on another double rainbow.

JMO

Great Post Megnut !!!!!

You pretty much mentioned everything that most of us have thought and felt through all of this.

#Justice4LIBBY&ABBY

 

[minor4th]

Martin said all three psychologists agreed Richard Allen was psychotic and he proceeded with the first treatment on April 14, 2023.

I wonder why Wala felt compelled to testify that RA was faking his mental illness.

 

[minor4th]

something that was strange is the defence didn’t seem to clearly make this argument at the suppression hearing.

moo

Wasn’t that their whole argument?

 

[acehard]

If they do closing tomorrow, jury might have a verdict by Fri?! This went by quick MOO

 

[MassGuy]

“You’ve now heard all the testimony in this case.” - Judge Gull to the jurors in the #Delphi murders case.All that’s left: closing arguments and jury deliberation.
@BobSegallWTHR
& I will have recaps of what happened on the final day of testimony tonight on
@WTHRcom
.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854261461390086463

 

[browneyes]

3

Did closing arguments really start this morning?

Tomorrow I believe.

 

[detectivewannab]

There’s just a lot more nuance here than in most murder cases. There’s also no smoking gun like many cases have (DNA).

Generally the shorter the deliberation, the better for the prosecution. I just don’t see this being quick though, so even if it goes a couple days I wouldn’t be worried about a not guilty.

The smoking gun was Libby's video of BG.

 

[photographer4]

I wonder why Wala felt compelled to testify that RA was faking his mental illness.

I wanted to know more about the "amended report" of Wala's that Westcott said she hadn't seen as she hadn't been given - in what way(s) was it amended? By whom? When? Why? Moo.

 

[browneyes]

Oh how I wish the judge would allow cameras in just for the closing arguments. Even if they weren't allowed to film any exhibits.

I would be happy with audio.

 

[detectivewannab]

Praying for both families.

 

[tlcya]

I wonder why Wala felt compelled to testify that RA was faking his mental illness.

I wonder why RA continued to confess well after Martin said he was no longer in psychosis.

 

[minor4th]

Don't these people who give depositions get signed copies? I think I see a pattern of their more recent recall being in favor of the prosecution. MOO
[snips]
"Martin says he has treated a pre-trial detainee in prison that had no criminal history before. Rozzi shows Martin his previous deposition and Martin agrees that he earlier said he had not treated a pre-trial detainee in a prison before.
...
He tells the jury about working on a computer off-site at times, Diener objects to this testimony.
...
He says he did not ask Allen if he had lawyers when he met with him in Nov. of 2022. Martin says that meeting was an interview and not a formal psychiatric visit. He says in a report from that same month that Allen had used alcohol socially."

Delphi Murders trial: Day 17 live blog

Richard Allen, accused of murdering 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German in 2017, is on trial in Carroll County, Indiana. The defense rested their case at the start of Day 17, and are expected to give closing arguments soon.

wishtv.com

So many of the states witnesses have changed their statements from earlier depositions and testimony - and yes all the changes favor the State. It’s a clear sign of agenda-driven testimony and should be given less weight by the jury.

 

[minor4th]

I don't know specifically for Dr. Martin; I haven't seen it reported whether he was employed by DOC or was a contractor. Dr. Walla was a contractor.

I think he said he was also a contractor.

 

[ClearAhead]

ETA to add initials:

At 2:13 p.m. the jury asked questions:

1. Did the oral haldol continue after June 20, 2023? Martin answers yes.
2. What time did you meet with Allen on June 20, 2023? Martin says early in the morning.
3. Based on the video, could this presentation be consistent with faking? Martin says no.
4. Is it possible for Allen to slip in and out of psychosis in a 24-hour period? Martin says yes

At 2:15 p.m. the state says it has no other rebuttal witnesses. Gull tells the jury “you have now heard all arguments in this case.”

The jury exits the court room at 2:16 p.m. Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin revisits jury instructions wanting to add a statement of confessions. The state objects. The defense withdraws the request.

Baldwin again brings up an offer of proof involving a man named EF, who is connected to the defense’s Odinism defense. The state says this does not matter because the defense has rested.

Baldwin says he wants EF addressed because he did not respond to a subpoena. Judge Gull says she already ruled he would not testify.

Court is in recess at 2:27 p.m.
Delphi Murders trial: Day 17 live blog

So B wanted EF “addressed” in jury instructions by adding “a statement of confessions” although he did not respond to a subpoena and the Judge had already ruled he would not testify. And even though the defense has already rested, a lightbulb moment has Baldwin asking to make yet another attempt at an Offer of Proof.

This sums up the utter nonsense this defense team has brought to the otherwise tragic case involving the violent slaying of two innocent teens girls out for a walk on a warm non school day in 2017.

JMO

 

[browneyes]

something that was strange is the defence didn’t seem to clearly make this argument at the suppression hearing.

moo

Honestly, I thought the defense was so disjointed. Nothing was clear and their experts were suspect. A plea deal would have been much better.

 

[MassGuy]

The smoking gun was Libby's video of BG.

It was a huge piece of evidence, but it was not something you could look at and immediately know who the killer is (like DNA).

The closest single piece of evidence we have to that here, is that cartridge. That’s in dispute though, and always will be.

 

[minor4th]

I wonder why RA continued to confess well after Martin said he was no longer in psychosis.

Because he was still in psychosis.

So B wanted EF “addressed” in jury instructions by adding “a statement of confessions” although he did not respond to a subpoena and the Judge had already ruled he would not testify. And even though the defense has already rested, a lightbulb moment has Baldwin asking to make yet another attempt at an Offer of Proof.

This sums up the utter nonsense this defense team has brought to the otherwise tragic case involving the violent slaying of two innocent teens girls out for a walk on a warm non school day in 2017.

JMO

i think you misunderstand. Ozzie was asking to make an offer of proof. He wasn’t trying to have a jury instruction about EF.

 

[tlcya]

This was in April when he was giving all of those confessions. If he lacked the capacity to consent to treatment, I’d argue he would have also been incapable of making a rational and voluntary confession.

Martin said he saw Allen several times in May, and each time, Allen was “coherent” and there was “no evidence” of psychosis By the end of the month, Allen was eating meals and had spoken to his wife.

On June 20, Allen had gone seven weeks without showing signs of psychosis and Martin decided to stop the Haldol injections.

Martin said Allen told him that day, “I would like to apologize to the families of my victims.”

He told the court Allen was “not psychotic” at the time of the statement.
Delphi Murders trial: Day 17 live blog

He was giving confessions well into June per the link, including the one Bolded above.

ETA You want to accept Martin's diagnosis of psychosis but not his determination of when psychosis ended? got it