Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[Warwick7]

The bad thing is that it could possibly lead to a new trial on appeal for ineffectiveness counsel … Because they were SO BAD

No. In my own opinion trials like this, are always onto appeals. Always.
Some appeals are to only save face.
(And yes, I agree with you, they were SO BAD).

 

[Arkay]

This amazing defense team??

They had facade evidence that they never got in...why? Because it is a facade, they failed...

Um....no...they didn't do all they could have to defend him. For starters they never called a friend, foe or relative to give a character reference about him let alone give him an alibi for that day.... What a failure they were.

Oh....yes....then we have the pretentiousness of slapping Weber with a sapena while on the stand. Same underhandedness they used with the hair in opening statements for shock and awe, knowing full well its was Kelsie's. What a let down.

I wouldn't call it amazing today when they rested leaving the P in shock, when they could have rested last night. But no no no they needed to catch the P off guard. Oh yes, that's how you give justice to Libby and Abby.

Or, maybe...it's not that they are amazing, maybe its just that they are reckless and irresponsible. They are known for it. Lest we forget the defense team leaving their crime scene photos unsecured and allowed access by a person without clearance.
Who then sold them to the media. Then killed himself...

Their serious failure will....overlap into a guilty verdict.

Delphi murders suspect’s attorneys quit after crime scene photo leak

Graphic photos of the scene where teenage best friends Libby German and Abby Williams were found brutally murdered in February 2017 were leaked by someone associated with Richard Allen’s defence team

www.the-independent.com

I agree.

The defense team threw up a Potemkin Village of a defense.

All facade and nothing of substance behind it.

JMO

 

[zh0r4]

The bad thing is that it could possibly lead to a new trial on appeal for ineffectiveness counsel … Because they were SO BAD

It will definitely lead to an appeal if he’s convicted. Most likely because of violations of his constitutional rights. JMO.

 

[cherrybier]

I predict the closing agreements will be over by 1 and we have a verdict by 5.

I predict it'll take days of deliberations.

 

[cherrybier]

I agree.

The defense team threw up a Potemkin Village of a defense.

All facade and nothing of substance behind it.

JMO

Exactly the words I was looking for regarding the State's case.

 

[Warwick7]

It will definitely lead to an appeal if he’s convicted. Most likely because of violations of his constitutional rights. JMO.

M00...I doubt it.

 

[Betty P]

I predict it'll take days of deliberations.

They will have a lot of material and evidence to review before they can vote.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Have been away all day. Is it true that the defense rested?

And did KA testify?

If so what did she say?

 

[arielilane]

@MaxLewisTV

Delphi Murders Trial Day 17 Wrap Up:

We're close to the end. The defense rested this morning and then we finished rebuttal witnesses this afternoon. Closing arguments start tomorrow.

-Defense attorney Brad Rozzi told the courtroom the defense rests shortly after court began


-This apparently caught the prosecution off guard because they're rebuttal witnesses weren't there yet and so we had to take a break and wait for them
-During this time the attorneys discussed the jury instructions some


-Judge Gull said she would read instructions to the jury before closing arguments and neither side had a problem with that
-First rebuttal witness for the prosecution was Breann Wilbur
-She took the stand previously and was on the trails the day Abby and Libby went missing


-The prosecution admitted a snapchat photo she took when she arrived at the trails around 12:25
-She then walked to the high bridge and didn't see any girls and didn't see bridge guy


-This seems to be pushing back on Allen's statement during his first interrogation where he said was on the trails from 12 to 1:30 after initially telling police in 2017 that he was there from 1:30 to 3:30


-Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin seem to insinuate during cross that police were more focused on the end of her time on the bridge and not the beginning
-He basically said we all just have to rely on her memory
-Next up was Master Trooper Brian Harshman


-He also previously took the stand and was the one assigned to listen to all of Richard Allen's phone calls
-Harshman testified Allen has essentially been in solitary confinement since his arrest
-Seems that the insinuation was why did he only become psychotic at Westville


-The defense did not cross examine Harshman
-Last up was Dr. John Martin who was the psychiatrist at Westville who treated Allen
-He went to medical school in India and worked in several Florida prisons and jails
-He first evaluated Allen in November 2022


-He said Allen was stable and had no problems that he could outside of his previous mental health history
-Martin said he had treated "safekeepers" previously but never one in solitary confinement


-He testified that even though there was mental harm by putting Allen in solitary it was done with the intention of keeping him safe

NOTE: There was some notable reaction from defense team when Martin said this because it's exactly what they want him to say.


-Martin met with Allen 18 times in 13 months
-After their first November meeting, Martin didn't see Allen again until April 2023
-Martin was asked to come to the prison and saw Allen laying on his cell floor naked and covered in feces


-The next day it was decided that Allen would get a Haldol injection
-By early May, Martin said Allen improved and there was no evidence that he could see of psychosis
-That continued into June when Martin had another meeting with Allen


-It was during this meeting that Allen said he wanted to apologize to the families of his victims
-Martin said he did not present as psychotic during that meeting
-During cross, Rozzi starts to ask about lawsuits Dr. Martin was involved in down in Florida regarding solitary


-Deputy prosecutor Stacy Diener objects and he moves on
-Dr. Martin agreed that solitary confinement can bring about and exacerbate mental illness
-He testified that he never saw the videos of Allen at Westville


-Rozzi then played a video from around the time Allen made that statement

NOTE: Allen nor his family watched the video. They turned their heads away and some were crying as it went on.

-It showed Allen getting a medical check up at the prison while strapped to a chair


-He appeared catatonic and had a blank stare on his face
-Very similar to the photo below that his attorney's released of him
-During redirect, Martin said the video was not how he remembered Allen that day and he can't explain why
-He said it doesn't make him think he was wrong




-During recross, Rozzi asked if seeing that video made him question his assertion that Allen was no longer psychotic and Dr. Martin said it did
-The jury asked 4 questions including about whether what Allen looked like on the video could be him faking his symptoms
-Martin said no


-Martin did say it's possible Allen could slip in and out of psychosis in a 24 hour period
-That was the prosecution's last rebuttal witness
-Seemed notable to me that they didn't bring anyone to refute the phone data from yesterday that seemingly blew up their timeline


-Defense didn't call any rebuttal witnesses
-Judge Gull turned to the jury and said "you have heard all the evidence in this case"
-Jury was sent home for the day
-Once the jury left, Baldwin asked Judge Gull to issue an arrest warrant for Elvis Fields


-He is one of the supposed Odinists the defense contends killed Abby and Libby in a sacrifice
-Fields was issued a subpoena and never showed
-Baldwin wants him to testify outside the presence of the jury but for the record in case an appeal is needed


-Gull said he wouldn't have been allowed to testify in the case so she's not going to do that
-Court wrapped up early and closing arguments begin at 9 am tomorrow
-Each side gets 2 and a half hours for closing
-Prosecution will go first followed by the defense


-Then the prosecution will get a rebuttal and that will be the last work
-Appears Brad Rozzi will be doing the closing for the defense while McLeland handles it for the prosecution
-After that, it'll be up to the jury

 

[Inthedetails]

Did the defense ever bring up the catfishing and that Libby had corresponded with the Anthony_Shots account? That seems like the most believable SODDI theory but I'm not recalling trial coverage on it (though I admit I don't read every post in the thread and I ditched the youtubers awhile ago).

jmo

 

[INfisherman]

Did the defense ever bring up the catfishing and that Libby had corresponded with the Anthony_Shots account? That seems like the most believable SODDI theory but I'm not recalling trial coverage on it (though I admit I don't read every post in the thread and I ditched the youtubers awhile ago).

jmo

Not that I ever saw. Shots account was tied to KAK & both he & his dad were off limits. They did, however, bring up EF AFTER they rested their case, which JG kindly reminded them it was still off limits besides the fact they’d already rested their case. One of those accidentally on purpose things.

JMO

 

[jepop]

BBM
THIS sounds exactly like the defense's shenanigans.

Think it's possible it was a strategic move to force state to scramble to get rebuttal witnesses up earlier than anticipated. I was disappointed the state had no rebuttal witness to solidify the utter ridiculousness moo of Eldridge's testimony re headphones being plugged into the phone found at the scene.

Think it's possible state had no time to get another phone expert up there. Wasn't worth calling that in -house Cecil (?) again. Jmo. Hopefully state did enough on cross and with Cecil and Bunner (?) yesterday to debunk Eldridge effectively.

 

[otto]

He’s had many years to clean that car of his imo

Not only that, but Richard Allen probably has gaps in his story, such as what he did with the teenage girls for an hour before killing them.

He would have been covered in blood after those murders. Since he planned to sexually assault and kill someone that day, it's quite possible he put clean clothes in his trunk.

After the murders, he could change clothing behind his car (that was unusually backed in), bag up his clothes, use sanitizer on hands and face, and toss the bag in a dumpster on the way home. There would be much less evidence transferred to the car.

 

[INfisherman]

Not only that, but Richard Allen probably has gaps in his story, such as what he did with the teenage girls for an hour before killing them.

He would have been covered in blood after those murders. Since he planned to sexually assault and kill someone that day, it's quite possible he put clean clothes in his trunk.

After the murders, he could change clothing behind his car (that was unusually backed in), bag up his clothes, use sanitizer on hands and face, and toss the bag in a dumpster on the way home. There would be much less evidence transferred to the car.

…or wore layered clothing. Would be much easier & much faster to just remove outer layers & throw outer layers in a trash bag sitting in the trunk. Also not as noticeable when standing out in the open at the CPS building. Either way, both are possible. Plus blood would likely have been dried by then.

MOO

 

[otto]

The sheriff did not try to find a man named Whiteman who talked to to them about being on the trail either.

Maybe that is how it was 'cleared'. If an officer tried to find someone by that name, and it didn't check out, maybe it was cleared rather than checked for mistakes. With thousands of tips, it's possible.

 

[otto]

The sheriff did not try to find a man named Whiteman who talked to to them about being on the trail either.

Maybe that is how it was 'cleared'. If an officer tried to find someone by that name, and it didn't check out, maybe it was cleared rather than checked for mistakes. With thousands of tips, it's possible.

 

[snooptroop88]

Here's what Fox59 is saying to expect in closing statements:

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-defense-rests-its-case/

Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland will go first, not utilizing his full two-and-a-half hours at the start, to remind jurors that investigators have a photograph of what they believe is Allen’s car not far from the murder scene and a bullet found near the bodies that an Indiana State Police expert testified came from Allen’s gun and confessions to his wife and his mother and a prison psychiatrist that he killed the girls and had exclusive knowledge about a white van that may have driven by as he was attempting to sexually assault the girls and his own statement that he was walking on a nature path to the bridge that day.

Lead defense attorney Bradley Rozzi will go next and will make his final attempt to convince jurors that investigators arrested the wrong man, that Allen’s DNA was not at the crime scene and the girls’ DNA was not found on Allen’s clothes or knives or car, that the State Police test that linked the found bullet to his handgun was flawed in an apples-to-oranges comparison, that social media was awash with references to a white van during the early parts of the investigation, that Allen suffered from psychosis while in solitary confinement in a state prison cell and made false confessions and the investigation was botched from the start, Allen’s own voluntary interview from 2017 was lost in the files until two years ago, and no witnesses positively identified Allen as being on the scene that day.

Then McLeland will give his final closing argument and Judge Gull will give jury instructions with emphasis on the concept of reasonable doubt, the credibility of Allen and witnesses and the reminder that Allen’s decision to not testify on his own behalf cannot be held against him.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Exactly. If a defense witness said they just googled something during a break, the opinions would be much different…

 

[MiniMoo]

I'm thinking 5 hours deliberations max.

I hope the jurors sift through everything with a fine tooth comb.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

It changes nothing. The bodies were laying where they were killed. They never moved. The phone never moved. No one had headphones on at 10 pm.

I must have missed that expert testimony while I was busy following the news today. If you can, please share the missing links. TIA