VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #213

[getthefax]

So completely not used to juries quitting early, and being required to work Saturday- I get the Saturday with sequestered- not sure I get early day 1 of deliberations- maybe I’m missing something? Anyone able to help me?

EBM—
In her instructions, Judge Gull stipulated the jury would deliberate 9am-4pm, and not on Sundays. Maybe she let them go before 4 pm today just so they could have a fresh start tomorrow? MOO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

They already had a day sitting and listening to instructions and closings, and I don't fault them for wanting some breathing room before delving into the deliberations for a full day.

Or...it could mean they are already in agreement early but want to sleep on it.

Juries work hard and put in time, but there are always comments that the hours are not long enough. (Not saying that to anyone in particular, just something I've noticed on several cases.)

jmo

Fair- just not my normal experience-

 

[Davemac1]

With all we have “heard” from the trial, I have a hard time believing as a jury member that I would be able to say he is guilty BARD. Just too many holes and issues with testimony as well as the solitary confinement. What a mess.

JMO

Hardly solitary confinement was it?
Anyway. I thought he quite enjoyed his own company. Went to the trails for hours on his own didn't he?

 

[cherrybier]

Yes, I think they are motived to reach a verdict to get back to their own lives.

I also think they will want to listen to Libby's video and compare the voice to other videos. That might take some time to set up and play on repeat.

I am expecting them to reach a verdict tomorrow but then sleep on it for final decision on Saturday. (But I hope it's Friday.)

jmo

Now that the evidence is in, I really do not have a firm opinion about whether Richard Allen is the killer. I was hoping for more convincing proof from the State, but they did not deliver IMO

Here are just some of the problems/questions I have about the State’s case:

1. Many of their witnesses seemed to tailor their testimony for trial, changing testimony from what they had said previously.
2. There were problems with the testimony of most, if not all, of their experts.
3. They did not firm up the timeline, but actually cast more doubt about it. If the HH video ~1:30 was Richard Allen’s Ford Focus, it was driving in the wrong direction for RA to be entering the trails, but would have been more consistent with RA leaving the trails and heading home.
4. All of the witness descriptions of BG or whoever they saw do not even remotely describe RA, and importantly no one identified him in court.
5. Since all the interview recordings for the first couple of weeks were lost, I’m not sure I believe that RA initially said he was on the trials from 1:30-3:30.
6. I think the State unethically tried to enter the “confessions” as truthful when they knew they were unreliable and while RA was psychotic.
7. The bullet expert couldn’t get consistent marks by cycling the bullet through RA’s gun.
8. It was never verified where RA parked or at what time or what time he left.
9. And importantly I do not think this was a fair trial. I think the defense should have been permitted to put in their defense, and I think the judge’s evidentiary rulings in the trial were very biased from the reporting I’ve read.
10. While not related to the trial specifically, the behavior of the prosecutors pre-trial was abominable IMO Trying to disqualify RA’s attorneys, not turning over evidence timely, opposing motions to transfer RA to better conditions, etc.

With all that in mind, I do not trust much of the State’s evidence and I think they have failed to prove RA was the killer.

Agree with all of this.

Haven't proven BARD for me.

 

[Boxer]

Does seem risky. Perhaps if they were still at the scene when search parties were approaching - desperate ? And then worried that the headphones being a personal item would carry DNA.

I still think moisture is more likely.

Its a bunch of malarky.
MOO this a first time trailside rapist making mistakes and ending up killing the victims.

 

[INfisherman]

Hardly solitary confinement was it?
Anyway. I thought he quite enjoyed his own company. Went to the trails for hours on his own didn't he?

He seemed to eat quite often & enjoy their utensils, IIRC.

ETA Did a bit of singing too, if I’m not mistaken.

JMO

 

[EllaMinnowP]

Why would RA need to be brought in?

At 1:24 p.m. the jury leaves with instructions.

Judge Gull now lays out expectations for those outside the deliberation room. She says the attorneys need to be within 5 minutes of the court room. She says if the jury needs to see evidence, all attorneys will be invited.

Gull says that Allen will be brought in if the jury requests.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

www.wishtv.com

I haven’t seen a reply to this, yet, but have the same question.
Did you learn anything else about it?

 

[Boxer]

Hardly solitary confinement was it?
Anyway. I thought he quite enjoyed his own company. Went to the trails for hours on his own didn't he?

He is alive and that was the challenge. So many in jail amd prison would like to say they ended him.

 

[Boxer]

Raising a glass to the jury and wishing them clarity and the will to do justice.

 

[FrostedGlass]

After court testimony regarding the video, this came to mind:
[snips]

"And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube reenactments of the crime.

Holeman: “[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”"

Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

Since the 2017 murder of Indiana teens Libby German and Abby Williams, local authorities have not released any information about the cause or time of death of either victim, leading to rumors and speculation. We spoke with Indiana State Police First Sgt. Jerry Holeman about why the police are...

www.aetv.com

PUBLISHED: February 12, 2019
UPDATED: October 31, 2022

 

[photographer4]

After court testimony regarding the video, this came to mind:
[snips]

"And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube reenactments of the crime.

Holeman: “[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”"

Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

Since the 2017 murder of Indiana teens Libby German and Abby Williams, local authorities have not released any information about the cause or time of death of either victim, leading to rumors and speculation. We spoke with Indiana State Police First Sgt. Jerry Holeman about why the police are...

www.aetv.com

PUBLISHED: February 12, 2019
UPDATED: October 31, 2022

Funny how the videos ended up becoming the State's theory as to what happened. I think they adopted public perception / online theories because their crap investigation meant they could not solve this. I don't think it will ever be solved. Even on a conviction, I do not believe they got this right. moo

 

[cherrybier]

Hardly solitary confinement was it?
Anyway. I thought he quite enjoyed his own company. Went to the trails for hours on his own didn't he?

Those two scenarios are not even remotely similar.

 

[photographer4]

Those two scenarios are not even remotely similar.

Why is this even still a debate? The State's own witness has acknowledged he was held in Solitary: "Wala acknowledged that inmates are meant to be in solitary confinement for a maximum of 30 days. Allen was in solitary confinement for 13 months ― a situation that Wala acknowledged could impact his mental health." -

'I killed Abby and Libby': Prison psychologist says Richard Allen confessed to Delphi murders

"I killed Abby and Libby," Allen reportedly said. "I will kill everyone. I will wipe out everybody," Dr. Monica Wala testified.

www.indystar.com

That is about the only bit of her testimony I am willing to believe. That RA was held in atrocious conditions in solitary confinement for 13 months.

 

[Spartygirl]

He didn’t say he would tell them what he did.

He said he would tell them what they wanted to hear.

It is an important difference.

And he didn't say what they wanted to "HEAR"

They said- he’d talk to investigators and tell them what they wanted to "KNOW""

Another important difference

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

I continue to believe that the branches were placed with the intention of making it look like a ritualistic crime.

Which could be an actual ritualistic crime, or it could be someone who wanted it to seem like it was.

Nope
It was a haphazard attempt to cover the bodies of Abby and Libby, who was naked, to avoid them being discovered quickly and to give him time to get out of there.

JMO

 

[DS2021]

I read thru a brief recap of the entire trial today, and im def a little nervous. Ill read through the in depth daily recaps in a bit

 

[browneyes]

I think a 2 hour verdict would be wild, but I’m not sure why they’d be released early if they hadn’t come to some sort of conclusion. Very interesting.

I missed the whole day. What time did court usually adjourn? I predict a verdict tomorrow or Saturday morning.

 

[Mitch1]

I continue to believe that the branches were placed with the intention of making it look like a ritualistic crime.

Which could be an actual ritualistic crime, or it could be someone who wanted it to seem like it was.

Yep, unbelievable that anyone could think that someone tossed those branches on Abby and Libby and they just happened to land the way they did.

 

[Tricia]

Don't forget to take the Websleuths Delphi poll.
Click here and choose your answer.
Thank you.

 

[photographer4]

And he didn't say what they wanted to "HEAR"

They said- he’d talk to investigators and tell them what they wanted to "KNOW""

Another important difference

JMO

No he didn’t - this link transcribed it as follows: “Richard: "If this is too much, call the investigators and I'll tell them whatever they want."

Prosecution rests after Delphi murders suspect's confession calls to wife played in court

"If I get the electric chair or the death penalty, will you be there for me? I killed Abby and Libby," the double-murder suspect told his wife over a taped phone call. Prosecutors rested their case Thursday.

abc11.com