Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #10 *Arrest*

Status
Not open for further replies.
3 hours ago

Erin's phone records analysed​

Dr Sorell confirmed he had been provided four-and-a-half years of call charge records, from January 2019 to August 2023, relating to a phone belonging to Erin.
The court also heard he was provided “targeted dates” of event-based monitoring records.
He confirmed he analysed records relating to the Loch and Outtrim areas.
The jury has previously heard observations of death cap mushrooms in Loch and Outtrim were posted to the citizen science website iNaturalist in April and May 2023.
“In the first instance of those four-and-a-half years of records, (we were) asked to identify periods where the phone could have been in the Outtrim area,” he said.

2 hours ago
Highlight

Erin's phone records reveal 'possible' visit to site of death caps​

Dr Sorell is now being asked about Erin’s call charge records from May 22, 2023.
The jury has previously heard mycologist Dr Tom May observed death cap mushrooms in Outtrim the day before on May 21 and posted their location on iNaturalist.
Dr Sorell told the court he first concluded there was “unlikely a visit” to Outtrim, but he noted that call charge records have several limitations.
The court heard he “revised” his opinion when granted access to Erin’s event-based monitoring records from May 22, 2023, which have been presented to the jury in a table.
“Possible visit to northern Outtrim (from) 11.24am to no later than 11.49am,” the table reads.
According to the EBM records, her mobile phone connected with the Outtrim base station at 11.18am, 11.19am, 11.20am, 11.24am, 11.31am, 11.36am, 11.41am and 11.49am.
The court heard it connected with other base stations including at Kardella, Koonwarra and Mirboo North in-between those times.
Dr Sorell said it was his opinion the mobile phone was “relatively stationary” in the Outtrim area until 11.49am before the connection stabilises around Leongatha about 12pm.
A map of the Outtrim area, which has been outlined in blue, has also been presented to the jury.
The Outtrim base station is located in the northernmost part of the map.
Dr Sorell has marked Neilson St, which the jury previously heard was the location Dr May observed the death caps, on the map.
The jury can see the street is located nearby, to the south of the base station.
“(It’s) possible there was a visit to Neilson St at that time,” he said of the EBM records from May 22.

1 hours ago
Highlight

Accused's phone pinged near second toxic mushroom location​

Dr Sorell is now being asked about Erin’s call charge and event-based monitoring records from April 28, 2023, in relation to the Loch area.
Retired poisons information specialist Christine McKenzie, who gave evidence this morning, observed death cap mushrooms in Loch on April 18 and posted their location on iNaturalist.
According to the records, Dr Sorell said it was his opinion there was a possible visit by the mobile phone to Loch originating from and returning from Korumburra, no earlier than 9.06am and no later than 10.07am that day.
According to the EBM records, the mobile phone connected to base stations at Loch or Loch South at 9.08am, 9.09am and 10.01am.
“When you look at the EBM records, it gives us more refined detail,” he said.
Dr Sorell has also been asked about Erin’s call charge and event-based monitoring records from May 22, 2023, also in relation to the Loch area.
He said the mobile phone connected with the Loch South base station “about every five minutes” from 9.19am until about 10am that day.
“While it could be moving in and around that area, it can’t be moving very far,” he said of the mobile phone.
The court heard the connections to the base station were “consistent”, The court heard the connections to the base station were “consistent” with the mobile phone remaining “relatively stationary”.
Dr Sorell will continue giving evidence on Tuesday.

Thanks for following along!​

Court has adjourned for the day. Here’s a recap of the today’s key moments:


1. Retired pharmacist Christine McKenzie, who previously worked at the Victorian Poisons Information Centre, confirmed she observed death cap mushrooms near an oval in Loch on April 18, 2023, and posted them to citizen science website iNaturalist. She told the court she removed the death caps due to their toxicity, but was concerned more could grow in the area over the “subsequent weeks”.

2. Digital forensics expert Dr Matthew Sorell gave the jurors a lesson on mobile phone networks. He said communication records or “call charge records” (CCR) provide basic detail relating to calls, texts and data usage, while “event-based monitoring” (EBM) records provide “more high-level detail” related to signalling.

3. Dr Sorell confirmed he had been provided years of call charge records, from January 2019 to August 2023, relating to a phone belonging to Erin. The court also heard he was provided “targeted dates” of event-based monitoring records, including April 28 and May 22. Observations of death caps in Loch and Outtrim were posted to iNaturalist on April 18 and May 21 by Ms McKenzie and mycologist Dr Tom May, respectively.

4. The jury heard it was Dr Sorell’s opinion that the mobile phone belonging to Erin made a “possible visit” to northern Outtrim from 11.24am to no later than 11.49am on May 22, one day after the iNaturalist post was logged in Outtrim. He told the court he believed the mobile phone was “relatively stationary” in the area until 11.49am due to its repeated connections to the nearby Outtrim base station.

5. Dr Sorell told the court it was also his opinion that the mobile phone made a “possible visit” to Loch no earlier than 9.06am and no later than 10.07am on April 28, 10 days after the iNaturalist post was logged in Loch. The jury heard the mobile phone also returned to the area on May 22, with repeated connections to a nearby Loch South base station consistent with the mobile phone being “relatively stationary” in the area.

1747640160667.webp
Dr Matthew Sorell explained to the jury how phone data records work. Picture: Brenton Edwards

 
44m ago16.52 AEST

Here’s a recap of what the jury heard today​

1. Patterson’s mobile phone was likely to be “relatively stationary” in the Outtrim area between 11.24am and 11.49am on 22 May 2023, according to telecommunications expert Dr Matthew Sorell. The jury previously heard a post about a reported death cap mushroom sighting in Outtrim was uploaded to the iNaturalist website on 21 May 2023.

2. Patterson’s mobile phone data also showed a “potential” visit to the Loch area on 28 April 2023, according to Sorell.

3. Retired pharmacist Christine McKenzie posted her observation of suspected death cap mushrooms in Loch to the “citizen science” website iNaturalist on 18 April 2023.The post contained photographs of the mushrooms and the location, the court heard.

4. McKenzie says she removed and disposed of the fungi she suspected were death cap mushrooms on that day because she was aware they were toxic.

The trial will resume from 10.30am on Tuesday.

 
tbh this is why I don't think it matters too much about whether people say she foraged a lot, or not. If you have the evidence of the iNaturalist posts (and iNaturalist makes it clear they're deadly, as if the name weren't enough), and her phone records matching the locations of the mushrooms from those posts, and the phone records show she didn't stay long in the area where the mushrooms were removed, but she did stay long where they weren't, it kinda just doesn't matter if she had experience or not. She was still allegedly going straight for death caps. Whether it was her first time picking mushrooms or her 100th, she allegedly was still deliberately picking death caps.

as defence you could argue that was all coincidence (post times correlating with phone ping times), but you'd argue that whether she'd collected them many times or never.
 

What we learned today​

Another week of the Erin Patterson murder trial is underway in Morwell.

Today, we saw two witnesses give their testimony in the triple-murder case.

Christine McKenzie, a poisons expert and fungi enthusiast gave her testimony regarding death cap mushrooms in the Outtrim area.

Telecommunications expert Matthew Sorell gave us a very detailed account of mobile phone networks, before sharing his analysis of a phone number linked to Erin Patterson.

Here's what we learned today:

  1. 1.Fungi enthusiast Christine McKenzie detailed her posts on the iNaturalist website, where she told the court she had posted about a sighting of death cap mushrooms near Loch on April 18, 2023.
  2. 2.Ms McKenzie says she picked all the mushrooms she could see to dispose of them, but was concerned they might grow back and be picked by foragers.
  3. 3.Matthew Sorell was asked to analyse four years of phone records related to a number linked to Erin Patterson.
  4. 4.Dr Sorell says the phone number was recorded connecting to Outtrim and Loch, close to the dates where death cap mushroom observations were recorded online.
  5. 5.He told the court the phone may have made multiple trips to the areas, but was likely to be stationary in Outtrim for 25 minutes on May 22, a day after a death cap was observed in the area.
  • That concludes today's proceedings. Dr Sorell will resume his testimony tomorrow.

    Court is adjourned.


 
Erin’s vehicle was an MG zst, which comes with sat nav. It seems you access your trip history via the app on your mobile, and that history is usually available for 100 days. Let’s hope the Police managed to access that - or is that one more reason why she wiped her mobile? I’m not sure if the provider of the sat-nav service also keeps a track of the history.


1747647433338.webp
1747647458618.webp


 
The funny thing is, looking at the inature data it seems deathcap season started a couple of months before and was slowly winding down.

But the evidence says she travelled to known growing spots shortly before the lunch, and bought a dehydrator on the same day.

If she planned it so far in advance, wouldn’t she collect the mushrooms much earlier? It really seems her scheme was a bit slapdash.
Maybe I'm confused ( not unusual ) but I was of the opinion that she travelled to Death Cap growing area when it was publicised on the inaturalist site that the season had commenced, which was a few months prior to the lunch ( it’s Death Cap season now I think if anyone wants to try them) Then on that same day that she foraged, she purchased the dehydrator.
IMO
 
Maybe I'm confused ( not unusual ) but I was of the opinion that she travelled to Death Cap growing area when it was publicised on the inaturalist site that the season had commenced, which was a few months prior to the lunch ( it’s Death Cap season now I think if anyone wants to try them) Then on that same day that she foraged, she purchased the dehydrator.
IMO
You're not wrong. She bought the dehydrator at the end of April, and possibly visited Loch the same day. She was also in or around Outtrim in May. The lunch was in August.

MOO
 
Erin’s vehicle was an MG zst, which comes with sat nav. It seems you access your trip history via the app on your mobile, and that history is usually available for 100 days. Let’s hope the Police managed to access that - or is that one more reason why she wiped her mobile? I’m not sure if the provider of the sat-nav service also keeps a track of the history.


View attachment 587034
View attachment 587035


That vehicle is still kicking around. I wonder if the cops have forensically taken it apart yet?
 
“Prosecutor Jane Warren says police asked Sorell to help identify connections that Erin Patterson’s phone made to the locations of Outtrim and Loch.
He was also asked to identify movements of the device on 31 July 2023 - two days after the lunch - between 8am and 10am.”
I believe this was the time period EP left the hospital against medical advice. I believe she told Simon she went home and fell asleep on her floor?!
I wonder if Dr Sorell’s evidence will contradict this?

 
Hey I am not Australian, but I do a bit of IT work, unless I am mistaken. Couldn't we also use Erin's GPS data as an alternate?

I believe this is the phone that Erin allegedly reset while it was in police custody. So any GPS or other data on the device was likely purged.

If she used Google maps or some other service to find the mushroom patch then they could get the location data from the app provider, assuming that it hadn't been deleted by the time the subpoena was issued.
 
So it seems the accused Erin “possibly” made multiple alleged trips to areas reported to have death caps growing, within very short times of the reports. That’s going to be difficult to counter by the defense, especially since it’s doubtful Erin will testify. JMO

Is there anything the defense can say on her behalf apart from trying to cause doubt by posing alternative scenarios to the expert witness and casting suspicion on the technology?

IMO it was a good move by the prosecution to use the phone records so early as it may be difficult for the jury to discount that evidence during the rest of the trial. Those charts and maps may be hard to unsee.
 
Erin’s vehicle was an MG zst, which comes with sat nav. It seems you access your trip history via the app on your mobile, and that history is usually available for 100 days. Let’s hope the Police managed to access that - or is that one more reason why she wiped her mobile? I’m not sure if the provider of the sat-nav service also keeps a track of the history.


View attachment 587034
View attachment 587035



So glad you picked up and explored this as it's something I was wondering 😀
 
I think perhaps Ms Patterson did seek out death cap mushrooms when she went foraging.
IMO

Or maybe it was all just a tragic accident.
Maybe it was a tragic accident.

She might have been curious, and went to view them, photograph them and then foraged for safe varieties. If I had time on my hands, I’d do that. Iam very interested in the things that scare me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
99
Guests online
658
Total visitors
757

Forum statistics

Threads
625,991
Messages
18,514,950
Members
240,889
Latest member
ChloeTheTux
Back
Top