Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #10 *Arrest*

[MrJ]

It's compelling circumstantial evidence, but all the same that's what it is: circumstantial evidence. Compelling case by the prosecution so far. That said I would want to see more digital forensic evidence. all JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

It's compelling circumstantial evidence, but all the same that's what it is: circumstantial evidence. Compelling case by the prosecution so far. That said I would want to see more digital forensic evidence. all JMO

Building the case brick by brick, with compelling circumstantial evidence. imo

 

[MsMarple]

It's compelling circumstantial evidence, but all the same that's what it is: circumstantial evidence. Compelling case by the prosecution so far. That said I would want to see more digital forensic evidence. all JMO

Short of testimony from producing an eyewitness who saw the accused picking death caps - and I doubt that will happen - it’s all circumstantial evidence. The key is how strong a chain forms when considering all the evidence.

IMO one strong link connecting the phone data is the finding of death caps in the dehydrator. Another link IMO is Erin’s failure to disclose that she never bought dried mushrooms from an Asian grocery, despite knowing her alleged loved ones were suffering horribly while doctors tried to discover the cause.

Then there’s the ruse of getting the relatives over for lunch by claiming she was diagnosed with cancer. Which also guaranteed the children wouldn’t be present when the food was served.

In the end the jury will have to consider all the evidence and decide which side of reasonable doubt the totality falls. I don’t envy their job!

All my own opinion.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Digital forensic expert Matthew Sorrell is testifying in Patterson's triple-murder trial and has told the jury her phone had pinged near death cap mushroom sites in May 2023.

Dr Sorrell said analysis of Patterson's phone records showed she was in the vicinity of the Gippsland towns of Outtrim and Loch on May 22 in 2023.

The jury was told a post was published on the iNaturalist science website on May 21, outlining that death cap mushrooms had been located on Neilson St in Outtrim.

Another post on April 18 stated the poisonous mushrooms had been spotted earlier that day at the Loch recreation reserve.

Mushroom cook's phone records under microscope

Accused killer Erin Patterson's movements in the months before serving a deadly mushroom lunch in Australia will be examined as a jury hears...

www.odt.co.nz

 

[Kemug]

FWIW, it seems to me that Erin was pretty confident around Death Caps. She (allegedly) picked them, sliced them, dried them, crushed them, stored them - all with kids in the house. Later on she stirred them into her cooking, baked them into lunch, and served them. With not a twinge of fear, guilt, remorse, etc. She must have worn gloves every time, you would think she went through quite a lot of gloves. Perhaps receipts from Woolworths would show that? Very confident with DCs, because IMO not a speck got on or in her

 

[MsMarple]

Maybe it was a tragic accident.

She might have been curious, and went to view them, photograph them and then foraged for safe varieties. If I had time on my hands, I’d do that. Iam very interested in the things that scare me.

Your post made me curious about alternative considerations so I looked up the explanation of circumstantial evidence and reasonable doubt in Australia and it’s complicated!

I’ll link the entire page but a couple things I came away with as non Australian, non attorney civilian were that the jury must avoid speculation:

10. Given the high standard of proof required in criminal trials, it is important that the jury only draws inferences which can be properly deduced from the direct evidence (“reasonable inferences”), rather than making guesses or engaging in speculation (R v McIntyre (2000) 111 A Crim R 211).

But also that:

11. In determining whether an inference is reasonable, the jury should consider the evidence as a whole. A reasonable inference can be drawn from a combination of facts, none of which viewed alone would support that inference (Chamberlain v R (No 2) (1984) 153 CLR 521; R v Sorby [1986] VR 753; Shepherd v The Queen (1990) 170 CLR 573; R v Hillier (2007) 228 CLR 618; R v Allen[2007] VSCA 97).

And:

. The jury should therefore not reject one circumstance because, considered alone, no reasonable inference of guilt can be drawn from it. The jury must consider the weight which is to be given to the united force of all the circumstances put together. One piece of evidence may resolve the jury's doubts about another (R v Hillier(2007) 228 CLR 618; R v Allen [2007] VSCA 97; Chamberlain v R (No 2) (1984) 153 CLR 521; Van Beelen; Thomas v R [1972] NZLR 34; Shepherd v The Queen (1990) 170 CLR 573).

 

[MsMarple]

At the same time:

17. So if the jury finds that an inference or hypothesis consistent with innocence is open on the evidence, they must give the accused the benefit of the doubt necessarily created by that circumstance and acquit him or her (Knight v R (1992) 175 CLR 495).
18. The judge should not invite the jury to determine whether there are any other reasonable conclusions arising from the facts. Such a direction misstates the onus of proof, as it is for the prosecution to exclude all reasonable hypotheses consistent with innocence (Gregg v The Queen [2020] NSWCCA 245, [523]).

Loading…

judicialcollege.vic.edu.au

Sorry, I’m on my phone this week which makes posting cludgy. I want to tear my brand new laptop that my husband gave me out of his greedy hands but I don’t have the heart since he’s been so good about me being up late following the trial.

 

[Jess D]

Maybe it was a tragic accident.

She might have been curious, and went to view them, photograph them and then foraged for safe varieties. If I had time on my hands, I’d do that. Iam very interested in the things that scare me.

Maybe the earth is flat...

 

[Jess D]

Yes.

April 18 the first posting about Death Caps in Loch on the Inaturalist Website
April 28 Erin is in Lock (according to the opening) and she also buys the dehydrator this day.

May 21 The second Death Cap sighting logged on Inaturalist website in Outtrim
May 22 Erin is at Outtrim

No wonder she was keen to delete her phone search history...

 

[drsleuth]

Sorry I can't do the updates this morning

 

[MsMarple]

I can do one source, either abc.net or Guardian. I think Daily Mail is doing it to and maybe a couple more?

 

[MsMarple]

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson 's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Erin Patterson murder trial day 14 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

Erin Patterson's phone recorded in areas near death caps, court hears — as it happened

More witnesses will give testimony at Erin Patterson's murder trial at the Latrobe Valley Law Courts in Morwell. She accused of murdering three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington meal that contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-phone-placed-in-vicinity-of-loch-outtrim-after-death-cap-sightings/news-story/6a9bc1f64a75656a29128c1d186cafc7

 

[Eloise]

No wonder she was keen to delete her phone search history...

Oh Erin... this old chestnut. I am once again asking for people to remember that deleting search history from your phone doesn't delete it from the records police can obtain from your ISP. Its probably good your average alleged criminal forgets this, of course.

 

[Jess D]

Oh Erin... this old chestnut. I am once again asking for people to remember that deleting search history from your phone doesn't delete it from the records police can obtain from your ISP. Its probably good your average alleged criminal forgets this, of course.

She also got rid of one of her sim cards, didn't she?

 

[Eloise]

Yeah they never recovered one of them. But your data is retained for 2 years in line with Australian data retention laws. Having physical access to your phone just makes it easier, and the disposal of evidence looks suspicious in itself. Allegedly

 

[MsMarple]

Law, Crime and Justice - Topic - ABC News

Browse stories related to Law, Crime and Justice

www.abc.net.au

The triple murder trial of Erin Patterson continues in the Latrobe Valley Law Courts in Morwell.

She's accused of preparing a beef Wellington meal that contained poisonous death cap mushrooms and serving it to relatives.

Follow the trial in our live blog.

 

[Scuffy35]

Either way you

(sorry for delayed post. For some reason my post kept failing when including the full post from Eloise)

If it was going to be brought up in the trial, I think it would have been done during all the mushroom expert testimony before moving onto the mobile phone / telecommunications side of the prosecutions case.

There were two separate elements of her alleged experience reported though, one was the family friend about her regular foraging and the other was having a collection / library of mushroom books.

IMO

 

[Detechtive]

That vehicle is still kicking around. I wonder if the cops have forensically taken it apart yet?

I think it was stolen.

 

[MsMarple]

From abc.net.au unless otherwise noted.

ust now

Prosecution lists potential visits made to Loch, Outtrim​

By Judd Boaz​

Dr Sorrel talks the court through the various base stations around the Loch area.

As we heard yesterday, a base station is the main communication point that nearby mobile phones will connect with andtransmit data to.

During his testimony, Dr Sorrel told the court he had been asked to analyse about four years worth of phone records linked to a phone number registered to Erin Patterson.

The prosecution begins charting potential visits to the Loch and Outtrim area, based on the phone's contact with nearby base stations.

 

[Eloise]

I think it was stolen.

It was, but it seems like it was recovered (the people who stole it were arrested while in it).

Two arrested over robbery at home of Victoria's fatal mushroom meal

Two people are under arrest following an alleged burglary at the home of accused triple murderer Erin Patterson in Victoria's east.

www.abc.net.au

There are photos of police investigating her car - Dogs deployed to sniff out technology as mushroom lunch cook quizzed - same time that they were looking for tech, they looked in her car. I hope they would also check any on-board computers, because they record loads of data even when you don't know they are.