Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #10 *Arrest*

[Deleted member 363451]

That language is so offensive. It is so ugly.

I think that someone was living a double life. Ian Wilkinson thought she was “normal”. He said that in his testimony.

People are not always how they portray themselves to be.

Was this just a tragic accident?

"Inside every person you know, is a person you don't know."

 

[JBowie]

People are not always how they portray themselves to be.

Especially those with narcissistic personality disorder.

Narcissistic people can be very concerned with how others see them so work hard to maintain a positive image in public. They present themselves as congenial and favourable as it helps them receive admiration and validation, and boosts their self esteem.They can be loyal, kind and caring to some, and dismissive and cruel to others. This disparity in their behaviour can be confusing to those who witness both sides of the their personality. -- Darren F Magee, practicing counsellor/psychotherapist and clinical supervisor.

 

[katydid23]

Key Event
1m ago

Erin Patterson was researching cancer on phone​

By Kristian Silva​

The court is also shown what appear to be screenshots of internet searches, again seized from Ms Patterson’s phone.

They suggest Ms Patterson was looking up information about stage 4 cancer, stage 4 ovarian cancer and brain lymphoma.

Zooming out a bit, if we cast our mind back to earlier in the trial, witness Ian Wilkinson told the court Ms Patterson told the lunch guests she had cancer.

Later it emerged the cancer claim was untrue and no records existed showing Ms Patterson had ever been diagnosed with cancer.

This is nutty. Stage 4 Ovarian Cancer ? Quite a dramatic play on her part.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Female murderers are 7 times more likely than men to poison their victims according to a quick search on Google.

 

[Scuffy35]

That language is so offensive. It is so ugly.

I think that someone was living a double life. Ian Wilkinson thought she was “normal”. He said that in his testimony.

People are not always how they portray themselves to be.

Was this just a tragic accident?

The messages to her facebok friends display her anger. I could almost smpathise with her if it is true Simon is such a deadbeat husband.

Could you explain what is offensive about them and who it is offending, given they were private messages to her friends?

 

[katydid23]

What is the prosecution alluding to with the photos of the mushrooms?

I think just showing photographic evidence that she sometimes dehydrated fresh mushrooms?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Especially those with narcissistic personality disorder.

Narcissistic people can be very concerned with how others see them so work hard to maintain a positive image in public. They present themselves as congenial and favourable as it helps them receive admiration and validation, and boosts their self esteem.They can be loyal, kind and caring to some, and dismissive and cruel to others. This disparity in their behaviour can be confusing to those who witness both sides of the their personality. -- Darren F Magee, practicing counsellor/psychotherapist and clinical supervisor.

Does anyone remember the 'death wall' that the painter photographed in one of Erin's properties?

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/death-wall-inside-mushroom-chefs-house/news-story/a879b2505a32b22dc16214201659dab4

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Female murderers are 7 times more likely than men to poison their victims according to a quick search on Google.

I have no doubt that Erin will be added to this Wikipedia list of poisonings.

Lists of poisonings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Yh5r]

The messages to her facebok friends display her anger. I could almost smpathise with her if it is true Simon is such a deadbeat husband.

Could you explain what is offensive about them and who it is offending, given they were private messages to her friends?

Definitely very aggrevated, angry, aggressive language

It does show what a person she is (just seeking the fault in others, no self reflection) and how much hatred she felt

 

[katydid23]

The messages to her facebok friends display her anger. I could almost smpathise with her if it is true Simon is such a deadbeat husband.

Could you explain what is offensive about them and who it is offending, given they were private messages to her friends?

I don't think he was a deadbeat Dad, technically. He did go to Social Services and they calculated the earnings of both parents and told him what this legal monthly responsibility was.

I think she was collecting monthly income from some of her properties. Her cash flow was much higher than his. So he did not have to pay her much child support because of that disparity.

He wanted his kids on the weekends but it was downsized to every other weekend ---which often happens when kids get older and want to go be with their friends and do local activities etc.

But I see it as more of a parental alienation situation than Simon actually being a deadbeat. IMO

 

[LinasK]

5 hours ago

Nurse enters the witness box​

The jury has entered the courtroom.
Justice Christopher Beale told the jurors to come to court at 11.30am today, instead of 10.30am, because the parties would be dealing with an “issue” for the first hour of the day.

The court heard senior digital forensics officer Shamen Fox-Henry would return to the stand later.
“We’re going to interpose two witnesses,” Justice Beale said.
Nurse Mairim Cespon has now entered the witness box.
She told the court she worked at Leongatha Hospital in July 2023.

5 hours ago

'We were concerned for her health': Nurse saw Erin after mushroom meal​

Ms Cespon told the court she was working on July 31, two days after the lunch.
She said she cared for Heather and Ian before they were transferred to Dandenong Hospital for more intensive treatment.

She confirmed she saw Erin when she first presented to the hospital about 8am, before Erin left five minutes later and did not return within 30 minutes like she said she would.
The jury has previously heard from Dr Chris Webster, who also worked at Leongatha Hospital.
“Dr Webster tried to call up a couple of times to check on her,” Ms Cespon said.
“But she did not answer any of those phone calls so Dr Webster was concerned for her wellbeing.
“Dr Webster called police … for a welfare check to make sure she was okay because we were concerned for her health.”
Ms Cespon confirmed Erin returned the hospitalat 9.48am of her own accord.

5 hours ago
Highlight

Nurse recalls Erin's tears in hospital at mention of kids​

Ms Cespon recalled that Dr Webster had a conversation with Erin about her children.
“Dr Webster mentioned that her kids needed to be medically reviewed because they had ingested part of the meal,” she said.
“At that moment, Erin became emotional. She was crying.”
Ms Cespon said Erin asked if it was necessary for her children to be brought to hospital, since she said they did not eat the mushrooms in the meal and did not have any symptoms.
“She didn’t want them to be stressed or panicked,” she said.
She also told the court she monitored Erin’s bowel motions after she was admitted.
“We needed to catch the bowel motion … and get a sample from it,” she said.
The court heard she used a pan, known as a witches hat, which was placed on the toilet seat.

5 hours ago
Highlight

'Small, solid bits of brown in it': Jury hears details of Erin's bowel movements​

Erin’s bowel chart from July 31 has been shown to the jury.
Five bowel motions have been recorded at 10am, 10.04am, 10.06am, 10.15am and 11.50am.
Ms Cespon confirmed she recorded three of the bowel motions as “medium” and “liquid”, while the other two were “small” and “liquid”.
She said after one trip to the toilet Erin said to her: “It does look like it’s a wee, but it is a bowel motion.”
The court heard one of the first bowel motions looked like “clear liquid with some small, solid bits of brown in it”.
Ms Cespon told the court Erin reported to her that she started to feel sick the evening of the lunch on July 29 and had diarrhoea all day on July 30 before it settled in the evening.

5 hours ago

How council launched its 'mushroom investigation'​

Troy Schonknecht, an environmental health officer from Monash City Council, has now entered the witness box.
He told the court he was involved in the investigation after Erin told officials she had used dried mushrooms from an Asian grocer in the beef wellington meal.
Mr Schonknecht said he was told they had been bought from an Asian grocer in either Oakleigh, Clayton or Mount Waverley.
He said he reviewed the database of business registrations to establish the Asian grocers in those suburbs.
The jury has now been shown a spreadsheet titled: ‘Mushroom Investigation: Monash City Council’.
The court heard the scope of the investigation was narrowed from all mushrooms, both fresh and dried, to shiitake or porcini mushrooms.
Mr Schonknecht said he was also told by an official the dried mushrooms had been bought at an Asian grocer on a strip, had a white label, were unbranded and weighed about 100g.

4 hours ago
Highlight

Council officer took 300 photos of mushrooms during investigation​

Crown prosecutor Jane Warren is now asking Mr Schonknecht about each Asian grocer he visited.
The court heard there were five in Oakleigh, five in Clayton and four in Mount Waverley.
Photos of packaged mushrooms taken by Mr Schonknecht have been shown on the screens in the courtroom.
He said he took more than 300 photos during the course of the investigation.
Mr Schonknecht confirmed he asked each Asian grocer whether they had changed suppliers since April, had products that had been re-packaged and whether any of their suppliers had tried to sell them a product not commercially produced.
He will return to the stand at 2.15pm.

4 hours ago

Mushroom investigation: What officer found in town​

As we wait for Mr Schonknecht to continue his evidence after the lunch break, here’s a list of the Asian grocers he visited in August 2023 and the type of mushrooms he photographed.
He told the court he was looking for dried mushrooms, specifically porcini or shiitake.

OAKLEIGH
Everyday Asian Supermarket | dried mushroom, sliced shiitake mushroom
Golden Grocery | dried shiitake mushroom
Little Korea | sliced dried mushroom, sliced shiitake mushroom
Pacific Asian Oakleigh | wild boletus edulis
Oakleigh Fresh Fruit Barn | funghi porcini essiccati
LAYTON
Sarawan Spices and Home Entertainment | no mushrooms
Hong Kong Asian Food Supermarket | sliced shiitake mushroom
Fresh Fruit Mart | no mushrooms
Alishaan Indian Pty Ltd | no mushrooms
Jireh Mart | sliced dried mushroom

MOUNT WAVERLEY
East Mart | sliced shiitake mushroom, sliced dried mushroom
28 Mart | variety of whole dried mushrooms
TK Asian Supermarket | assorted mushroom mix, dried porcini mushroom, sliced shiitake mushroom
Besnew | sliced shiitake mushroom

3 hours ago
Highlight

What council's extensive mushroom hunt post lunch uncovered​

Mr Schonknecht has returned to the witness box.
The spreadsheet titled ‘Mushroom Investigation: Monash City Council’ was again shown to the jury, including the following answers he provided after visiting the Asian grocers.
Q: Has there been any changes in supplier since April? If so, please provide details.
A: All premises visited and that were identified as selling fresh (initially) or dried mushrooms had not changed their supplier since April or in 2023. I asked further if they had anyone attend the premises trying to (wholesale) sell them mushrooms for the intention of on-selling and they all responded that they had not had anyone trying to sell them mushrooms.

Q: Are there any products that do not have proper labels? If any that may be collected/dehydrated locally?
A: Only Golden Grocery was repackaging products and applying their own label. It was identified during the investigation the product was too large and were whole dried mushrooms as opposed to the sliced dried mushroom. Any non-compliance identified have been referred to the area officer to follow up with proprietor. No products were identified to be local or manufactured in Australia. All dried products were reported.

Q: Are any suppliers’ local producers?
A: All dried mushroom products investigated were imported and importer/supplier identified.

3 hours ago
Highlight

Council did not check Asian grocers in Glen Waverley, jury hears​

Mr Schonknecht is now being cross-examined by defence barrister Sophie Stafford.
She is asking him questions about the dried mushrooms he found at Golden Grocery in Oakleigh.
Photos shown to the jury taken by Mr Schonknecht at Golden Grocery show products labelled “black fungus” and dried “tea tree” mushrooms.
He told the court some of these mushrooms were removed from sale for a period of time.
The court heard Mr Schonknecht was not tasked with visiting any Asian grocers in Glen Waverley.
The jury has previously heard Erin told officials she may have bought the dried mushrooms from an Asian grocer in Glen Waverley.
But Mr Schonknecht said this information was not passed along to him.
He has now completed his evidence.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/it-expert-to-return-to-the-stand-in-erin-patterson-murder-trial-day-17-live-from-court/live-coverage/2bb32cd4d0cc6b27e96ba1e6f4fff57c?amp

Question, not to be gross, but couldn't they test her stool sample to see if it really had Ecoli in it rather than just urine?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I don't think he was a deadbeat Dad, technically. He did go to Social Services and they calculated the earnings of both parents and told him what this legal monthly responsibility was.

I think she was collecting monthly income from some of her properties. Her cash flow was much higher than his. So he did not have to pay her much child support because of that disparity.

He wanted his kids on the weekends but it was downsized to every other weekend ---which often happens when kids get older and want to go be with their friends and do local activities etc.

But I see it as more of a parental alienation situation than Simon actually being a deadbeat. IMO

 

[Scuffy35]

Definitely very aggrevated, angry, aggressive language

It does show what a person she is (just seeking the fault in others, no self reflection) and how much hatred she felt

Agreed. I think the word "offensive" was just not the right one.

 

[Yh5r]

I don't think he was a deadbeat Dad, technically. He did go to Social Services and they calculated the earnings of both parents and told him what this legal monthly responsibility was.

I think she was collecting monthly income from some of her properties. Her cash flow was much higher than his. So he did not have to pay her much child support because of that disparity.

He wanted his kids on the weekends but it was downsized to every other weekend ---which often happens when kids get older and want to go be with their friends and do local activities etc.

But I see it as more of a parental alienation situation than Simon actually being a deadbeat. IMO

The way he still spoke highly of her too when on the stand speak of his values as opposed to her very questionable ones. MOO

 

[Deleted member 363451]

The way he still spoke highly of her too when on the stand speak of his values as opposed to her very questionable ones. MOO

Which was admirable under the circumstances...

 

[Yh5r]

Question, not to be gross, but couldn't they test her stool sample to see if it really had Ecoli in it rather than just urine?

Yes strange that this wasn't done but I guess at that stage they might not have suspected EP of any involvement yet and just took her word for it.

However even if it's diarrhea, that's easily induced by anxiety, which she surely would have felt at that time. Or she could have taken laxatives. Diarrhea doesn't point to any mushroom poisoning imo, hopefully the jury sees it the same way.

 

[Yh5r]

Which was admirable under the circumstances...

Exactly and very surprising to me
So I'm not sure she's justified in calling him deadbeat, he also cared for his aunt and uncle, drove them to the hospital and took the kids there also

Don't see how this behaviour fits the "deadbeat" description

 

[Jake18]

Question, not to be gross, but couldn't they test her stool sample to see if it really had Ecoli in it rather than just urine?

I think she squeezed out what she could - mainly urine, a bit of stool. But even tiny amounts of stool will result in a positive E Coli culture.

I suspect if the nurse thought it looked like urine it also wasn’t smelly enough to be entirely liquid stool, but I can see how it’s a line of questioning that overall should be avoided

 

[Eloise]

Does anyone remember the 'death wall' that the painter photographed in one of Erin's properties?

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/death-wall-inside-mushroom-chefs-house/news-story/a879b2505a32b22dc16214201659dab4

I have absolutely not forgotten this. I think it probably won't come up. Very easy to just say it was the children
(personally, even if it was one of the kids I have some questions, but they're not relevant to the case)

 

[Kemug]

I can picture her maybe picking a few tiny bits off a wooden window frame or similar. Anything brown.