Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #10 *Arrest*

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #741
May I ask which parts of the evidence in particular you found helpful in sketching her character as this? I’m super curious because for me, there’s been frustratingly little provided by the prosecution for me to form any real opinion. I confess I was hoping we’d get more, if only because I sleep better at night when I can believe the killers amongst us are easily identifiable!

But with the exception of the events around the crimes she’s accused of, everything I’ve seen of EP seems fairly ordinary. Yes, there are examples of her bitching about her husband and in laws, but nothing particularly unusual, or wildly vitriolic.
It all seems like things ordinary, reasonable and non-murderous people might do or say too, during life’s stresses and strains.

If we take the exchanges about the husband and child support as an example; what *should* EP have done in this situation, if she genuinely believed their father was skirting his responsibilities to their kids?

I’m sure we can agree there are circumstances where ‘not taking no for an answer’ and pushing would be the *right* thing to do, and not an indication of any great character flaw or pathology. If you imagine for a moment she’s absolutely in the right on this, the messages just seem like her fighting for her kids.

We haven’t really had enough evidence to determine whose claim was more credible here, but we do know SP was paying a very small amount of Child maintenance, so we know her claims were not totally without basis.

I’ve certainly known ppl very much like who you’re describing, and IME they usually leave a trail of social transgressions in their wake. Conflict with the kids’ school, with other parents, with neighbours, and heaps of scathing reviews for businesses etc. Refusing her barrister’s advice and insisting on self representation, or taking the stand. All of this may be true for EP too, but afaik we haven’t seen any of it to date. I guess I’m just hungry for something tangible lol

Fwiw I think the evidence for guilt is quite overwhelming at this point and the verdict is likely to reflect that. I’m just not sure we can draw any clean conclusions about her psychology or motives in this.
I totally agree. I'm not so quick to draw any conclusions about her mental/ personality nor motive. It has no bearing on the actual case and only leads to confusion and assumptions. Let's just stick to the allowable evidence.
 
  • #742
I was just listening to the ABC podcast on the way to work and they explained this - they have a reporter in the courtroom.

The same picture of mushrooms in a dehydrator (retrieved from Erin’s phone) was also shown to the jury last week. Dr Tom May - who wasn’t given the context of the picture - was asked to identify the drying mushroom. He identified them with “reasonable certainty” as being Death Cap mushrooms.

Good pick up. Thanks for that. :)

I went to the podcast to hear that part. For anyone else who is interested, it is at about the 8:42 mark in the podcast episode linked below.

They state that the photo of the dried mushrooms was also shown to Dr May last week. He said the mushrooms in the picture had an appearance consistent with death cap mushrooms. The defence asked him if it was possible that these mushrooms had characteristics that were consistent with other types of mushrooms. He said yes.

Which is smart wording by the defence because it seems to me that all mushrooms have some consistent characteristics. :rolleyes:
Hope the jury see past that one.

And this photo was posted by Erin (they think using a tablet, if they recall correctly) two months prior to the poisonings.

 
  • #743
Good pick up. Thanks for that. :)

I went to the podcast to hear that part. For anyone else who is interested, it is at about the 8:42 mark in the podcast episode linked below.

They state that the photo of the dried mushrooms was also shown to Dr May last week. He said the mushrooms in the picture had an appearance consistent with death cap mushrooms. The defence asked him if it was possible that these mushrooms had characteristics that were consistent with other types of mushrooms. He said yes.

Which is smart wording by the defence because it seems to me that all mushrooms have some consistent characteristics. :rolleyes:
Hope the jury see past that one.

And this photo was posted by Erin (they think using a tablet, if they recall correctly) two months prior to the poisonings.

Bearing in mind though that the defence showed Dr May a number of picture of mushrooms hoping for a “gotcha” and he identified them ALL correctly, he has high levels of credibly IMO
 
  • #744
Bearing in mind though that the defence showed Dr May a number of picture of mushrooms hoping for a “gotcha” and he identified them ALL correctly, he has high levels of credibly IMO

Absolutely. I just hope the jury pick up on the fact that it is the same photo also shown to Dr May. And that all mushrooms have consistent characteristics, but they also have specific characteristics only seen in certain mushrooms.

What I was pointing out is that the defence asked about characteristics consistent with other mushrooms, to detract from the specific characteristics of death cap mushrooms that Dr May evidently could see.

This is not a stupid defence team. I see that more and more in the way they word their cross examinations. It is what they don't ask, more than what they do ask.

imo
 
  • #745
And we’re off!

Key Event
6m ago

Court is in session​

Melissa Brown profile image

By Melissa Brown​

We're started with some legal discussions.

The jury has yet been brought into the courtroom and we've begun hearing from a new witness, Professor Stephen Warrilow, a director of intensive care at Austin Health where the lunch guests were treated.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #746
from the ABC live blog:

5m ago

Doctor recalls Don Patterson arriving at hospital​

Melissa Brown profile image

By Melissa Brown​

Professor Warrillow helped treat Don and Gail Patterson and Heather and Ian Wilkinson.

Don Patterson was the first patient to arrive on July 31 after being transferred from Dandenong Hospital, where he had been diagnosed with acute liver failure.

Professor Warrillow says Don was brought to the Austin because it had a liver transplant service.

He says Don was critically unwell and on life support, with a severe liver injury and liver failure.

He had severely high indicators and his blood clotting measures were grossly abnormal, including a build up of acid and ammonia in the blood.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #747
3m ago

No other cause for illness found​

Melissa Brown profile image

By Melissa Brown​

Professor Warrillow says a range of tests were carried out to try to find any other possible causes apart from Amanita mushroom poisoning, like viruses, but none other were found.

He says Don received multi-dose activated charcoal to try to remove the Amanita poisoning from the bowel and other drugs to try to counter the effects of the poison.

He described the treatment as a “a lot of very intense treatment”.

He said Don continued to deteriorate despite very aggressive treatment.

“We were very, very worried about his progress, he was getting worse” Professor Warrillow said.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #748
3m ago

Don Patterson received liver transplant​

By Melissa Brown​

Professor Warrillow says over the following days, Don continued to deteriorate.

His circulation was increasingly compromised and his bowel stopped working.

Don had a liver transplant but Professor Warrillow says he “got relentlessly worse” and it became clear he was dying.

He passed away on August 5 with multiple organ failure.
 
  • #749
Key Event
9m ago

Gail Patterson arrives at the Austin​

Melissa Brown profile image

By Melissa Brown​

Professor Warrillow says Gail was transferred on July 31, also critically ill with acute liver failure.

She received the same treatments as Don.

By the next day, she was rapidly deteriorating in the advanced stages of multiple organ failure and advanced shock.

Professor Warrillow says her liver stopped working by August 2.

“She was on everything we had”, he says.

He says they considered a liver transplant but didn’t conduct one because the senior specialists believed she was too sick for surgery.

He says the blood had stopped flowing to Gail's bowel and that section had died.

She died on August 4.
 
  • #750
Key Event
6m ago

Heather Wilkinson's treatment detailed​

Melissa Brown profile image

By Melissa Brown​

Professor Warrillow says Heather was transferred on August 1 with very similar symptoms to Don and Gail.

He says she was critically ill with multiple organ failure and was on similar treatments as the Pattersons.

By August 2, she was rapidly deteriorating.

He says there were discussions about a liver transplant but she was also too unwell.

He says it became "very apparent that this was not survivable."

She died on August 4.
 
  • #751
Key Event
2m ago

Ian Wilkinson was last to arrive at the Austin​

Melissa Brown profile image

By Melissa Brown​

Ian came on the same day as Heather with similar symptoms, including acute liver failure.

Professor Warrillow says he was on ventilation and was critically ill.

He says by August 2, Ian was extremely unwell and continued to deteriorate, needing support for his circulation.

On August 4, the acid in Ian's blood was higher.

Professor Warrillow says Ian started to slowly improve from Aug 5 and was off ventilation by August 14.

He was eventually sent to Heidelberg Hospital and was discharged.

Professor Warrillow says he came "very close" to dying.
 
  • #752
2m ago

Professor says treatments not 100pc effective​

By Melissa Brown​

Professor Warrillow is asked to explain why the Amanita mushroom poisoning diagnosis was made on the basis of mushroom consumption and no other cause being identified.

He reveals the hospital had no test that specifically identifies Amanita toxin.

He says the treatments are not 100 per cent effective and there's a high mortality rate even with optimal care.

The court is now taking a break.
 
  • #753
So shocking to hear the efforts to save them in succession
 
  • #754
I have the feeling the accused could have prevented this if she'd told the truth the whole time to the doctors! IMO
 
  • #755
And what was *she* doing while doctors were desperately trying to save lives?

And the damage extends wider. Someone else didn't receive a liver that day...

I'm not accusing anyone but I am reminded of the phrase 'depraved indifference'.

JMO
 
  • #756
And what was *she* doing while doctors were desperately trying to save lives?

And the damage extends wider. Someone else didn't receive a liver that day...

I'm not accusing anyone but I am reminded of the phrase 'depraved indifference'.

JMO
I actually find it quite interesting that they did the transplant for Don. I'm not at all saying he shouldn't have had it, but I do know their is strict criteria to be eligible for transplants, and age and likely outcome factor in to it
 
  • #757
Absolutely horrific to hear in details what the lunch guests had to endure. I would also like to know if EP was informed of their progress and what she was doing in the meantime (other than pretending to google for an “Asian grocer” that didn’t exist).
 
  • #758

1 hours ago

Good morning!​

Welcome back to the Herald Sun’s live coverage of the trial of Erin Patterson.
Today is the eighteenth day in court, with proceedings set to kick off any minute now.

1 hours ago

Quick, I need a recap!​

Didn’t get a chance to tune in yesterday? Don’t worry – we’ve got you covered.
Here’s everything you need to know from court yesterday before proceedings get underway:

1. Senior digital forensics officer Shamen Fox-Henry was asked questions about a Samsung mobile phone seized from Erin’s house, particularly messages sent to a Facebook group chat in December 2022. In its opening address to the jury, the prosecution said the accused spoke to her online friends in Facebook group chats under the account names of Erin Patterson, ‘Erin Erin’ and ‘Erin ErinErin’.

2. One of the text messages sent by ‘Erin ErinErin’ about Simon read: “Don said they tried to talk to him but he refused to talk about it so they’re staying out of it but want us to pray together. I’m sick of this 🤬🤬🤬🤬 I want nothing to do with them. I thought his parents would want him to do the right thing but it seems their concern about not wanting to feel uncomfortable and not wanting to get involved in their son’s personal matters are overriding that so 🤬🤬🤬🤬 em.” Another message read: “His mum was horrified I had claimed child support. Why isn’t she horrified her son is such a deadbeat that I had no choice but to claim?”

3. Mr Fox-Henry was also asked questions about a Samsung tablet seized from Erin’s house. The jury were shown photos extracted from the device, including a photo of black dehydrator and two photos of mushrooms on the trays of the dehydrator. Four screenshots from an internet browser were also extracted, with three referring to ovarian cancer.

4. He confirmed he also examined a second Samsung mobile phone, which was handed over by Erin during the search warrant on August 5. The court heard four factory resets were conducted on the device on February 12, August 2, August 5 and August 8. A report shown to the jury shows the phone was “wiped locally by user” three times and “wiped remotely by user” once.

5. Troy Schonknecht, an environmental health officer from Monash City Council, explained to the jury how the council conducted an investigation after Erin told officials she had used dried mushrooms from an Asian grocer in the beef wellington meal. He visited 14 Asian grocers across Oakleigh, Clayton and Mount Waverley. He was unable to find any product fitting the exact description Erin had provided. He confirmed he did not visit any Asian grocers in Glen Waverley, despite Erin telling some officials the Asian grocer could have been located in that suburb.

6. Nurse Mairim Cespon told the court she monitored Erin’s bowel motions after she was admitted to Leongatha Hospital on July 31, two days after the lunch. Five bowel motions were recorded at 10am, 10.04am, 10.06am, 10.15am and 11.50am. Ms Cespon confirmed she recorded three of the bowel motions as “medium” and “liquid”, while the other two were “small” and “liquid”. She said Erin “became emotional” when she was told her children should be brought to hospital since they had eaten the leftovers of the lunch.

37 minutes ago

Liver transplant not enough to save Don Patterson, doctor says​

The jury has entered the courtroom.
Dr Stephen Warrillow, an intensive care specialist from the Austin Hospital, has started giving evidence via video link.

He confirmed he treated Don, Gail, Heather and Ian in the days after the lunch.
Crown prosecutor Sarah Lenthall said she would first ask Dr Warrillow about Don, who was diagnosed with acute liver failure on July 31 before he arrived at the Austin Hospital.
“The Austin hosts the state liver transplant service,” he said.
Dr Warrillow told the court Don was intubated after he arrived and put on life support as he was given medication “to assist his comfort during that time”.
The court heard he had been diagnosed with amanita mushroom poisoning or toxic mushroom poisoning.
“The only possibility of saving his life was through a liver transplant,” Dr Warrillow said.
He confirmed a liver transplant was completed, but Don continued to deteriorate.
“We had no other treatments to offer, no other therapies. He was dying.”
The court heard Don died on August 5, a week after the lunch on July 29, 2023.

32 minutes ago

Gail was in 'state of advanced shock' before death, doctor says​

Dr Warrillow is now being asked about Gail who, like her husband, continued to deteriorate after arriving at the Austin Hospital.
The court heard she had also been diagnosed with amanita mushroom poisoning or toxic mushroom poisoning.
He said her liver was “essentially not working at all” by August 2 and she was in a “state of advanced shock” with multiple organ failure.
Dr Warrillow confirmed a liver transplant was considered, but not undertaken.
“The view of all the contributing senior specialists … was that she was too sick to undergo the necessary surgery,” he said.
She died a day before her husband on August 4.

25 minutes ago

'Not survivable': Heather was too unwell for potentially life-saving surgery​

Dr Warrillow said Heather, like her sister, was “rapidly” deteriorating after arriving at the Austin Hospital.
The court heard she had also been diagnosed with amanita mushroom poisoning or toxic mushroom poisoning.
He confirmed a liver transplant was considered, but not undertaken for the same reasons as Gail.
“Ultimately no, she was too unwell to undergo the complex … surgery required for a liver transplant,” he said.
The court heard the doctors ultimately concluded her condition was “not survivable”.
She died on the same day as her sister on August 4.
13 minutes ago

'We thought he was going to die': Doctors on saving Ian​

Dr Warrillow said Ian, the only lunch guest to survive, was “extremely unwell” on August 2 with advanced multi-organ failure.
Ian is sitting in the body of the court, surrounded by family, as Dr Warrillow gives evidence.
The court heard his condition improved over August 6 and 7.
“There was some slow and important improvement over the next several days,” Dr Warrillow said.
“It was very slow because he was coming from a situation of extreme critical illness.”
Ms Lenthall asked Dr Warrillow how close Ian came to dying.
“We thought he was going to die. He was very close,” he said.
The court heard he was discharged from the ICU on August 21 before he returned home on September 21.
 
  • #759

Intensive care doctor takes the stand​

treated all of the four lunch guests in July 2023.

Don Patterson ‘vomiting, defecating blood’​

The court has heard Don Patterson arrived at Austin Hospital in a critical condition on 31 July, 2023.

Warrillow said he

blood in his vomit and diarrhoea.

“He was critically ill and in organ failure.,” Warrillow said.

“We identified that he had a severe liver injury. We also saw that his blood clotting measurements were grossly abnormal. He also had a build up of acid and a build up of ammonia in the blood.”

The court heard Don was the first of the four guests to be transferred from Dandenong Hospital to Austin Hospital, followed by his wife, Heather, then Ian.

The court heard the two couples were transferred there because they were suffering from multiple organ failure and the Austin Hospital has comprehensive medicine programs and can facilitate liver transplants.

Warrillow said the four guests were given several intense treatments, including activated charcoal and an antidote for death cap mushrooms.

Warrillow said despite medics’ efforts, Don, Gail, and Heather’s health continued to decline.

Don Patterson given a liver transplant, but Gail and Heather were too unwell​

The court has heard Don Patterson was given a liver transplant at Austin Hospital.

Despite the operation, his condition continued to decline and he died on 5 August 2023.

Warrillow said Gail and Heather were assessed for possible liver transplants, but they were too unwell and both passed away on 4 August, 2023.

The court heard Ian Wilkinson arrived at the Austin Hospital critically unwell and underwent a procedure on his bowel on 4 August 2023.

“We thought he was going to die. He was very close,” Warrillow said.

Warrillow said after the procedure, Ian showed “a slow but continued improvement”.

The court heard Ian was discharged from ICU to the ward on 21 August.

He then spent several weeks receiving rehabilitation before being released.
 
  • #760
Here we go!

Key Event
1m ago
Intensive care expert finishes giving evidence
By Melissa Brown

We're back from the break.

The defence has no questions for Professor Warrillow so he's finished his time in court.

Digital forensic expert with Victoria Police, Shamen Fox-Henry is called back to the stand.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
119
Guests online
3,644
Total visitors
3,763

Forum statistics

Threads
632,620
Messages
18,629,187
Members
243,220
Latest member
JJH2002
Back
Top