Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

[MrJ]

Re: the bulimia. I don't judge her for that sort of thing because anyone of any size can have it and I do have sympathy for people that struggle with it and other eating disorders.

However I do judge the cynicism of using it as a defence for why she didn't get sick from the beef Wellington. From what we've learned only a very small amount of death caps can kill. Throwing the cake up wouldn't negate the toxins in her system.

 

[CityKid]

Plenty of people have more than one phone, more than one device and more than one set of scales.

IMO people who have multiple phones, devices and scales would likely also have more than four matching plates for an elegant beef Wellington luncheon.

 

[MsMarple]

I probably should have explained. I have one personal mobile phone and one set of scales. Why would someone like EP need more?

A bigger question for me is why would Erin have multiple phones or scales but only have 2 white, two black and one red/black plates? Where did the 4 white plates (according to the son) or grey (according to Ian) go?

 

[CityKid]

This is where her reasoning can be quite easily discounted.

She admits to lying to try and make herself look better before, so how can anybody trust she isn't doing the same now? It is entirely in line with her previous actions that she could have concocted the whole thing to make her actions appear more rational. This is where her lies are her undoing.

One slight inconsistency I haven't heard anyone mention is that she had a huge problem with binge eating etc, but only claimed to finish 1/3rd of her Beef Wellington? One thing all partied agreed was that the food was very nice, and by her own admission she has the ability to finish a large portion, so why didn't she? She has never implied that she saved it for later or anything.

People with bulimia may eat lightly in front of others and binge privately. I had a university housemate who did that.

Bulimia nervosa - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Reading EPs answers to the Prosecution’s questions makes me wonder if she’s been practicing for this moment by playing the Yes No Game?

 

[Ellery84]

"... but not one with death cap mushroom intentionally"

IMO, the prosecutor should have repeated that bit for the attention of the jury.

Is she saying that some of her beef Wellington serving portions did have death caps in them and some didn’t?

 

[Montrealaise]

IMO. I've only been on NYC juries, so I can't speak to jury instructions in Australia. Here, the jury is told that if they believe the witness lied about any material fact in their testimony, you can disregard any and all of their testimony. The constant and consistent "yes, that was a lie" questioning, followed with a "trust me bro, I lied to police and everyone one else, but now I'm telling the truth" defense, doesn't play well with jurors.

Evidence Fall 2022 : OPTIONAL: New York pattern jury instructions on credibility of witnesses | H2O

opencasebook.org

Even if the jury isn't told they can disregard a lying witness' testimony, common sense would dictate that if somebody lies about one thing, they can and will lie about other things as well. Erin has been caught in so many lies by now I would be surprised if the jury believes anything she says.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

People with bulimia may eat lightly in front of others and binge privately. I had a university housemate who did that.

Bulimia nervosa - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

I'm only thinking out-loud here. For me, the Wellington is the main part of the meal, akin to a pasty, a pie or a burger.

In my life, I've been around all sorts of people including those with eating disorders. I don't think I've ever seen somebody eat a third of a burger or a pasty unless they were unwell, not hungry or an older person who picks at their food. In these situations, they almost always keep it for later.

Half, OK I could accept that (with them still keeping it) but she initially tried to claim she ate a third of it. If she had only eaten that, I think somebody would commented on it as unusual.

 

[Spectrix]

I'm only thinking out-loud here. For me, the Wellington is the main part of the meal, akin to a pasty, a pie or a burger.

In my life, I've been around all sorts of people including those with eating disorders. I don't think I've ever seen somebody eat a third of a burger or a pasty unless they were unwell, not hungry or an older person who picks at their food. In these situations, they almost always keep it for later.

Half, OK I could accept that (with them still keeping it) but she initially tried to claim she ate a third of it. If she had only eaten that, I think somebody would commented on it as unusual.

She's trying to suggest that she ate less than half of her own Wellington, but then followed it up with three quarters of a cake.
Sure Erin. Whatever you say.

 

[MrJ]

All I can say is that Colin Mandy and Sophie Stafford better have a running Excel spreadsheet of all of Erin's claims and statements she made while cross examined by her own side because her performance under prosecution cross examination has been abysmal imo

 

[MsMarple]

I wasn't expecting her to be so unlikeable, so arrogant, so superior even to law professionals, so much allegedly smarter than anyone in the state it seems, arguing the meaning of half of the words used to make them seem something else. In her birth family she still has an estranged sister, with a family. She has wiped out (I believe) half of the family she married into. Her husband will no doubt have nothing to do with her ever again, possibly the children too. She has no real friends, probably never did. A sad sad story - but it needn't have been this bad. She had the wonderful boon/luck of marrying a decent man with a nice family. She could have been grateful, and vowed to turn a new leaf and become a nicer person herself. She should be smart enough to understand her worst faults. Maybe even now she could change a bit, and learn to be a better person. Try some genuine apologies. And have some sort of relationship with her kids.

Erin was lucky enough to be financially secure and even built her forever house. That’s more than most people will ever see.

And frankly, most estranged/divorced couples don’t want to remain involved in their ex partner’s life except for necessary interaction for their kids’ well being. A brief hello at a child’s birthday party or school recital is all it takes.

Usually each parent takes on the responsibility of making sure their kids maintain a healthy relationship with their own relatives. It doesn’t have to be war nor does it have to be overly involved.

IMO it’s fine to stay close to your ex’s family if it was a close relationship but what I’ve read so far in this trial is Erin needing to remain close even after Simon and his relatives attempted to draw away a little. She was furious that Don and Gail didn’t take her side and give Simon a good what for. That’s not love, that’s plain old manipulation.

What was she going to do when Simon finds a new love? Will she demand to continue to be included in every family event?

If Erin gets so overwhelmed and anxious over every little perceived slight maybe she should seek counseling and leave Simon and his family the heck alone! JMO

 

[Montrealaise]

Is she saying that some of her beef Wellington serving portions did have death caps in them and some didn’t?

And by the most incredible miracle, she, her kids and her dog all ate the portions which didn't have death caps in them! Actually, if what I surmise is true - she specifically made individual, miniature beef wellingtons instead of the usual large filet - it wouldn't be that difficult. She would make minis with two duxelles of mushrooms, one with death caps and the others without, the first for her guests and the second for herself and her family. Then she would only need to make sure the two types didn't get mixed up.

 

[CuriousDetective]

I'm curious as to what disorder would cause a person to deny that a very obese person was in fact obese. Especially when given the weight/height of the particular person and had seen pictures of said person. And said person says that they are themselves. That baffles me.

I’m not sure I am following…. who is denying that someone is obese? Sorry if I have missed something here. I don’t know of any disorder that would cover what you are describing here. Just different understandings/views of what obesity is maybe? Or a sensitivity to the subject due to one’s own weight or life experiences?

On a separate note, I am finding this case so intriguing. I spent my early years just an hour from Leongatha and my best friend grew up in Leongatha. Her brother attends the church Ian Wilkinson was/is(?) pastoring.

 

[Detechtive]

It’s actually irrelevant if she has bulimia. Not That anyone should believe she does, because she’s a known liar about medical illnesses, and appears to be a hypochondriac.

But it’s not relevant because even if she did binge cake and purge, she would have been in the ICU with organ failure from consuming the death caps.

Red herring, another manipulation for sympathy. Another health issue to blame and use for control. She’s not as smart as she thinks she is.

 

[SouthAussie]

Is she saying that some of her beef Wellington serving portions did have death caps in them and some didn’t?

Freudian slip.

 

[MrJ]

If she lies about having cancer she'll lie about anything.

 

[SouthAussie]

I have no idea how the jury can even consider the accidental defense. Erin refuses to answer the simplest questions. Accidental implies she did something wrong, but without intent. Erin acts like she knows nothing of the incident. IMO, I hope they convict her.
Are rebuttal witnesses allowed in Australia? Even ones who already testified?

Yes, rebuttal witnesses are allowed here. Under some strict conditions. I was reading about that last night.
It sounds as if there is a credibility rule in the Evidence Act, and there are exceptions to that rule which allow rebuttal, with the judge's permission.

It is hard to tell if the judge meant (when he said there may be further witnesses next week) that there may be rebuttal witnesses, or there may be further defence witnesses.

This is the part about rebuttal in the Vic Evidence Act. It is just a short piece to read.

EVIDENCE ACT 2008 - SECT 106 Exception—rebutting denials by other evidence

classic.austlii.edu.au

 

[CuriousDetective]

It’s actually irrelevant if she has bulimia. Not That anyone should believe she does, because she’s a known liar about medical illnesses, and appears to be a hypochondriac.

But it’s not relevant because even if she did binge cake and purge, she would have been in the ICU with organ failure from consuming the death caps.

Red herring, another manipulation for sympathy. Another health issue to blame and use for control. She’s not as smart as she thinks she is.

I don’t have an opinion as to whether she has it or not. There is no way of knowing really (other than a medical examination and assuming she has observable physical consequences of bulimia). I just like to inform people about eating disorders and misconceptions around them as it is my passion and there is a lot of stigma, especially for those in a larger body.

But, I agree…it is irrelevant as the poison would be ingested as soon as the food is in the mouth anyway. Vomiting immediately would make no difference. This is one of the reasons that those with bulimia usually do not lose weight by vomiting. A large % of the caloric intake of the food itself is actually absorbed in the mouth and throat, before it even hits the stomach. Obviously, poison is different to calories, but I assume absorption processes would be similar.

Edited to add: Has she actually claimed to have bulimia? Or was it a past history? I can’t recall what I read now. I remember thinking that it may be a case of binge eating disorder given the desire for bariatric surgery. I thought she was using it to build a case as to why she needed extra support from Simon’s family, rather than to suggest it is why she wasn’t in ICU.

No surgeon in their right mind would be doing bariatric surgery on someone with an active eating disorder. It does happen, but is very dangerous.

 

[browneyes]

Yes, rebuttal witnesses are allowed here. Under some strict conditions. I was reading about that last night.
It sounds as if there is a credibility rule in the Evidence Act, and there are exceptions to that rule which allow rebuttal, with the judge's permission.

It is hard to tell if the judge meant (when he said there may be further witnesses next week) that there may be rebuttal witnesses, or there may be further defence witnesses.

This is the part about rebuttal in the Vic Evidence Act. It is just a short piece to read.

EVIDENCE ACT 2008 - SECT 106 Exception—rebutting denials by other evidence

classic.austlii.edu.au

Thank you for posting that.

 

[TLobo]

A bigger question for me is why would Erin have multiple phones or scales but only have 2 white, two black and one red/black plates? Where did the 4 white plates (according to the son) or grey (according to Ian) go?

This, and - there are regularly 3 people in her household. If they have so few plates in the house, then do they wash plates after each meal so there are enough for the next meal time? We know they have and use a dishwasher (son loaded small white plates into it), but if you stick 3 plates in the dishwasher at lunch (and don't run it until it's more full), you only have 1 plate left for supper. The logistics just make no sense to me. It seems like such a college dorm/apartment-dish-situation, not an upper-40s-family-home-dish-situation.