Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

[Megnut]

Who was this person who was taking photos in Erin's kitchen, the photos she doesn't remember taking? I hate when that happens.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Media Roundup: Warnings over mushroom trial coverage

"A few high-profile outlets have found themselves in hot water over their coverage of the Erin Patterson mushroom trial, with Crikey, Channel 10 and influencer Constance Hall all slapped on the wrist for crossing legal lines.

As James Madden and Steve Jackson report in The Australian, the trio has since made quiet edits or pulled content altogether after being warned about breaching court suppression orders or venturing into contempt territory.

It’s a sharp reminder that when it comes to ongoing court cases, the rules of suppression and sub judice apply to everyone… no matter how big the platform."

 

[SouthAussie]

Did Erin open the door on herself, to prior questionable acts, and that's why the trial might suddenly be longer, or did she inadvertently tip LE off to the location of something like Phone A, and the State has a new arsenal for rebuttal? Has someone come forward, having seen the light, with information that incriminates the accused even more profoundly?

JMO

After reading the relevant part of the Evidence Act, I think that any rebuttal that is allowed will come in the form of proof (perhaps from prior witnesses) that she did, in fact, say specific things that she now is distorting.

imo

 

[Little Jack]

The conversation on this thread has made it clear that the prosecution did not do a good job clarifying how many mushrooms would be needed to poison the guests, how much would be deadly, how quickly it would be deadly, etc

 

[tmar]

Besides the hyperfocus on semantics being part of EP’s whole personality, I believe she sees her constant challenging of every single minute detail as a mark of her brilliance, her upper hand in the trial through highlighting Dr Rogers sloppy recounts to the jury.
On the contrary, Dr Rogers is one smooth operator. Her questioning is deliberately worded to play into Erin’s psyche and to elucidate and put on display to the jury her real personality - obfuscation from the truth at every angle. Rather brilliant tbh.

EP tries to show how smart she is in answering.
Dr Rogers is using her questioning, to highlight this, revealing EP's aggressive character.

 

[Lisa4]

IMO and hypothetically, if she wanted to quietly remove 5 people from her life.

Choice of poison
Deathcap mushrooms:
1. deadly even in small amounts
2. symptoms mimic severe gastro, so victims fall ill over 6-24 hrs before the apparent recovery phase starts after 24 hrs. Unlikely hospital involvement until 48+hrs by which time toxins gone. The meal from well over 2 days ago discounted as a possible cause.
3. older persons - liver failure likely to be chalked up to age-related natural causes
4. SP past history of severe unexplained illnesses likely to cause medical staff to see him as more susceptible to natural liver failure
5. deathcap toxins not detectable after death
6. dried powdered mushrooms easy to dose precisely - could give each portion an exact dose if desired
7. out of season, the suspicion of deathcaps is eliminated
8. Little effort required to source, no financial trail
9. EP can easily fake a milder version of gastro, but she won't get sick like the others because she isn't health-compromosed by age, or the severe illness of SP

Choice of delivery
- deathcap mushrooms a consistent flavour with beef wellington ingredients
- beef wellingtons a luxurious food served at an occasion where sinister intent least expected

Five health-compromised people would die from an extremely bad gastro... oh how awfully sad, old people can be hit so hard by superbugs these days, what a tragedy...

What better choice than deathcaps then?

NO-ONE WOULD EVER KNOW.


IMOO

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Erin was lucky enough to be financially secure and even built her forever house. That’s more than most people will ever see.

And frankly, most estranged/divorced couples don’t want to remain involved in their ex partner’s life except for necessary interaction for their kids’ well being. A brief hello at a child’s birthday party or school recital is all it takes.

Usually each parent takes on the responsibility of making sure their kids maintain a healthy relationship with their own relatives. It doesn’t have to be war nor does it have to be overly involved.

IMO it’s fine to stay close to your ex’s family if it was a close relationship but what I’ve read so far in this trial is Erin needing to remain close even after Simon and his relatives attempted to draw away a little. She was furious that Don and Gail didn’t take her side and give Simon a good what for. That’s not love, that’s plain old manipulation.

What was she going to do when Simon finds a new love? Will she demand to continue to be included in every family event?

If Erin gets so overwhelmed and anxious over every little perceived slight maybe she should seek counseling and leave Simon and his family the heck alone! JMO

I agree with everything that you've said, but for some time after they separated Simon and Erin had an unusual arrangement. They continued to go on family holidays together and she continued to go to his family functions. He even wore his wedding ring to his parents funeral. I think both he and his family should have created some distance with Erin much sooner than they did...

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I lied, I panicked Erin Patterson’s account of mushroom lunch​

Re-enactment from Wednesday's court trial.

 

[Annalize]

That isn't what happened. From testimony back on May 26:

The jury is being shown photos of the dehydrator after it had been taken apart for analysis by Mr Goodwin and his colleagues.

In one photo of a dehydrator vent, the jury could see a small amount of vegetable matter was located on the bottom left-hand side.

He said he collected the matter with tweezers and placed it into a specimen jar.

The court heard a total of seven samples were taken from the dehydrator. The jury previously heard death cap mushroom amatoxins were detected in four of the seven samples.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/four-factory-resets-done-on-phone-handed-over-by-erin-patterson-court/live-coverage/8e20007ee7d3d8758b85ec4b751bc409

So it wasn't that Erin left the dehydrator uncleaned. Rather, tiny food particles get into the vents and the machine's other nooks and crannies. The police had to basically take the machine apart just to get to a few tiny bits of vegetable matter.

To keep a contaminated dehydrator in a household with teenagers/children is extremely reckless. I know my teenager loved trying new appliances and recipes and would likely use the dehydrator to make "healthy" snacks. She would not consider that there may be Death Cap mushroom residue inside the dehydrator. When friends visited, she would prepare snacks from the pantry and love to try new recipes.
It is possible that this situation, whether she knew the mushrooms were Death Caps or not, has created an irrevocable breach of trust for her children, her ex-husband and his family. It has most likely, also created horror for parents who allowed their children to spend time at that household.
Even if she was unaware that the mushrooms were Death Caps, it is horrific to think that people who ate at that house were deceived about ingredients being hidden in their food.
Whether by design or accident she has created far reaching implications. Some of them catastrophic.

 

[Salah11]

Erin is just so selfish it’s almost unbelievable.

 

[LinasK]

I think this case will come down to whether it’s reasonable to assume Erin could have been (almost) unaffected by the death caps given that she (allegedly) vomited her lunch back up after eating 2/3 cake 2 hours or so after the lunch.

I am thinking if the jury accepts that Erin didn’t get sick from eating the same lunch as her guests, she will likely walk as she wriggles her way out of all the evidence.

I have read here and elsewhere that death caps are immediately absorbed into the blood stream and vomiting wouldn’t negate the effects. I hope the prosecution will very clearly be able to highlight this to the jury.

She didn't get sick because her portion couldn't have had Death Caps in it.

 

[Detechtive]

Unless Ian is completely colourblind (no evidence to suggest that), there were grey plates used for lunch. Grey is grey, white is white. He looked at his plate every time he took a bite of food during the meal.

imo

And he said she had a lighter orange or tan plate. So they would be dark grey, IMO.

 

[LinasK]

This is where her reasoning can be quite easily discounted.

She admits to lying to try and make herself look better before, so how can anybody trust she isn't doing the same now? It is entirely in line with her previous actions that she could have concocted the whole thing to make her actions appear more rational. This is where her lies are her undoing.

One slight inconsistency I haven't heard anyone mention is that she had a huge problem with binge eating etc, but only claimed to finish 1/3rd of her Beef Wellington? One thing all partied agreed was that the food was very nice, and by her own admission she has the ability to finish a large portion, so why didn't she? She has never implied that she saved it for later or anything.

1) to try to explain why she wasn't as sick as the others 2) to feed the non-poisoned portion to her kids

 

[MrJ]

Updates can be found here where I will be drawing from (ABC live blog):

Live: Erin Patterson returns to give evidence in her murder trial

 

[tmar]

A bigger question for me is why would Erin have multiple phones or scales but only have 2 white, two black and one red/black plates? Where did the 4 white plates (according to the son) or grey (according to Ian) go?

In another of her 'throw outs'.
Anything that may incriminate her must go: plates, dehydrator, phones, and then lies added to hide facts.
Busy, busy, constantly thinking.

 

[Detechtive]

You can't contaminate food in a serious way with death cap 'residue' in the dehydrator, but still, I couldn't imagine feeling comfortable using it again afterwards - there is no evidence she did. The only evidence of her using the dehydrator for mushrooms was in April and May 2023 when she posted the images in her facebook friends chat.

She may have thoroughly cleaned it out, not anticipating police finding it and pulling it apart.

Or, she may have been planning to use it again because she used up all of her DC stash on the lunch, and there was another person she needed to 'wipe'. IMO

 

[brisbanemum]

One thing that doesn't seem to get mentioned is that the survivor of death caps from an earlier podcast, said they were not very nice.

The accepted narrative seems to be that she added them to improve the taste.

I don’t think she was trying to improve taste. I think she wanted the death cap powder to be undetected amongst the regular Woolies mushrooms. That’s why she was experimenting with the powdered mushrooms in her kids muffins etc. to see if powdered mushrooms could be tasted. MOO.

 

[Detechtive]

I don’t have an opinion as to whether she has it or not. There is no way of knowing really (other than a medical examination and assuming she has observable physical consequences of bulimia). I just like to inform people about eating disorders and misconceptions around them as it is my passion and there is a lot of stigma, especially for those in a larger body.

But, I agree…it is irrelevant as the poison would be ingested as soon as the food is in the mouth anyway. Vomiting immediately would make no difference. This is one of the reasons that those with bulimia usually do not lose weight by vomiting. A large % of the caloric intake of the food itself is actually absorbed in the mouth and throat, before it even hits the stomach. Obviously, poison is different to calories, but I assume absorption processes would be similar.

Edited to add: Has she actually claimed to have bulimia? Or was it a past history? I can’t recall what I read now. I remember thinking that it may be a case of binge eating disorder given the desire for bariatric surgery. I thought she was using it to build a case as to why she needed extra support from Simon’s family, rather than to suggest it is why she wasn’t in ICU.

No surgeon in their right mind would be doing bariatric surgery on someone with an active eating disorder. It does happen, but is very dangerous.

She has said she has always had bulimia, which I think we can infer that she still would have it.
That she binged and purged 3/4 of the cake and by inference, the 'poisoned pie/pasty'
Which then leads to, that she was referring to bariatric surgery she was planning to have and she needed Simons family for support while she was in hospital with that, and to explain away that she was lying about Ovarian cancer when she told Gail and Don that she was having future medical procedures.

It happens to be a tidy little illness which explains a few things at once. Too tidy. IMO.

 

[CityKid]

Even if the jury isn't told they can disregard a lying witness' testimony, common sense would dictate that if somebody lies about one thing, they can and will lie about other things as well. Erin has been caught in so many lies by now I would be surprised if the jury believes anything she says.

I agree, but I'm not sure how this works in all court systems. It's possible jurors are told they have to evaluate each statement for truth, or if they can disregard everything the witness said.

 

[Detechtive]

Just because the jury were only shown pictures of mushrooms doesn't mean there weren't pictures of other foods on her devices. The investigators would only be selecting pictures which are relevant to the allegations IMO

That isn't true. There were no photos of other foods being dehydrated on the phone. These were questions asked specifically yesterday. Are you following the daily updates?