Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

[iamshadow21]

Bears in my hometown were trash menaces, a town ordinance now requires bear proof containers

Come to Australia! We have some of the world's deadliest fauna, but no bears, raccoons, wolves, coyotes, opossums, mountain lions, etc.

You might run into one of our deadlier residents, but your garbage will be safe.

MOO

 

[Spectrix]

So just to clarify this was the leftover of the BW? or something else?

It was the leftover BW.
Tissue only from regular supermarket mushrooms was identified. But toxins of Deathcap was later detected by the toxicologist. It's likely that the Deathcaps were powdered, the tissue would then not be visible by microscope.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

She won't be able to if she is convicted. Thankfully.

I meant the sister revealing all about EP childhood and parents.
Sorry for confusion.

 

[mamamama9873]

Replying to my own post:

“Dr Gerostamoulos said the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine tested meat, pastry and mushroom paste samples from beef Wellington located in Ms Patterson’s bin after the lunch.

In three of four mushroom paste samples no alpha-amanitin or beta-amanitin toxins were found, but in one sample they detected beta-amanitin.

Beta-amanitin toxins were also detected in one meat sample, he said.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-alleged-mushroom-poisoner-was-ill-intensive-care-specialist-tells-court/news-story/2a1417ea5465148399f0c13da4735ad2

If Erin’s testimony is that she added the Asian grocery store bought “Chinese mushrooms” (her words) from a Tupperware container that also may have been mixed with her own foraged mushrooms, why were there no shiitake/porcini or other exotic mushrooms traces found in the leftovers along with the Woolworths field mushrooms? I mean what are the chances that she accidentally foraged death caps and bought death caps from the Asian grocery store?!

According to Mycologist, Dr Truong:
"The mushroom I identified is called a field mushroom ... this is the typical mushrooms that you find in a supermarket," Dr Truong said.
"That is the only mushroom that I found in this food item."

Dumped food dehydrator shown to mushroom murder trial

Footage has been shown at a murder trial of a woman dumping a food dehydrator at a tip,...

www.illawarramercury.com.au

Dried mushrooms need a good soak to rehydrate too, not just a quick dash of water. They would have been as rubbery and chewy as old boots and even finely chopped easily identified in a forensic analysis.

Patterson said that as she was cooking the duxelles down, she tasted it a few times, but it tasted a bit bland, so she decided to add the mushrooms she had bought from the grocer in Melbourne to the mixture she still had in her pantry.

“I roughly poured water over them to get the crispness out of them. I chopped them up and sprinkled them over the duxelles and pushed them in,” she said.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 26 as it happened: Mushroom cook says fear of estranged husband’s actions led to phone resets; details dumping food dehydrator at local tip after fatal lunch

Erin Patterson has told a court her estranged husband asked her if she had used a dehydrator to poison his parents, and admitted resetting her phone out of fear police would discover photos she had of foraged mushrooms.

www.smh.com.au

I call complete BS on this tale, I believe she dehydrated and finely ground death caps, well ahead of the lunch, and sprinkled them over instead.

This is excellent sleuthing. Why were there no shiitake and other exotic style mushrooms in there if the tupperware container had the ‘Chinese mushrooms’ in them. Surely no legitimate cook in their right mind would add powdered mushroom for flavour to a dish.

 

[Kemug]

It looked like it would be a huge mistake before she even decided to do it and has probably turned out even worse than anticipated.

Depends what you call worse.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

So I've just finished the ABC podcast and the thing that stood out the most to the female broadcaster (Rachael) this week was whenever Erin spoke about belonging and how kind her in-laws had been to her...

How to say you want her to get off without actually saying it.

Tbf they did acknowledge today that she had disagreed with quite a large number of people now.

 

[Spectrix]

Why were there no shiitake and other exotic style mushrooms in there if the tupperware container had the ‘Chinese mushrooms’ in them. Surely no legitimate cook in their right mind would add powdered mushroom for flavour to a dish.

Actually, powdered mushrooms specifically are known to impart the best Umami flavour.
Erin missed an opportunity to explain why she'd powdered the mushrooms, rather than lying and saying they were left 'chopped'.

So I've just finished the ABC podcast and the thing that stood out the most to the female broadcaster (Rachael) this week was whenever Erin spoke about belonging and how kind her in-laws had been to her...

How to say you want her to get off without actually saying it.

I noticed this too. She's sounding increasingly biased when I feel like it should be more neutral.

 

[Megnut]

Has there been any evidence that EP was truly considering gastric band surgery?

For example had she contacted clinics or done online research or followed web forums or joined discussion groups?

I'm starting to wonder if this meal was her 'last supper' scenario and she was bowing out from reality and mothering her children. Or that something is so profoundly mis-wired in her brain that focus on wreaking revenge hijacked her thinking hierarchy and she became unable to consider the aftermath and any consequences.

I've heard it said here on this forum that perpetrators frequently 'forget' to consider the aftermath. Is this a psychological phenomena ? I could understand if it happened in a crime of passion or violent rage but to plan something so carefully and then clean forget the cover up is so bizarre IMO.

Rbbm

It happens a lot. Me, I'd call it tunnel vision. Sometimes they are so careful on the planning side, that they're confident in how it will unfold.

In a case of Death Cap poisoning, let's say a poisoner knew that the toxin was not detectable after 48 hours, a poisoner might feel that, after the 48 hours, they're home free, and do all sorts of stall maneuvers to get past that threshold.

Sometimes they forget to plan for getting questioned right out of the gate. And now suddenly, all their careful planning looks like premediation, and they start scrambling to cover it up, making it even worse for them.

JMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

From the people I know who have dogs, it's not like the old days.
They would never give them scraps or leftovers.

Many feed them quite expensive best for your dog wet and dried food.
Everything fed to them was bought for them.

So yes, all scraps either go in the bin or are composted.

And yes our bins outside are safe.
We usually keep them in the backyard and put them out the night before for collection the next day.
Here it's weekly for general waste and green and organic waste.

We don't have large animals that would raid bins so no worry there.
And our country cockatoos so far haven't learned how to open them.

 

[Cartie]

It's that thing where she wants a husband but doesn't want a husband. There is no way she would have allowed another woman in her kids lives.
I honestly suspect that Simon was either seeing someone else, or wanting to which is the reason she did this in the first place. IMO

She wanted to have cake and eat. Pun intended

 

[Porky1]

I didn’t. Good to know now though. I was just told to stay away from wild mushrooms altogether. No specifics about which ones.

So long as they were pink as buttons or choc brown as flats, I picked buckets of them, just field mushrooms. Even at 7, I never picked anything that wasn’t safe and it was just me and my dog wandering through fields, a great childhood in the Australian countryside.

 

[Megnut]

If the Defense's angle is that, in foraging for mushrooms, Erin accidentally collected Death Cap mushrooms without realizing it, and then when her BW hot pockets seemed bland to her, added her dehydrated but never rehydrated foraged mushrooms to her BWs, she had no idea they were toxic, then where is her horror and remorse????? Why is she lying, denying, hair-splitting, can't-remembering?

It's a curious defense she's putting forward, curious in that I can't figure out what it is.

JMO

 

[Porky1]

From the people I know who have dogs, it's not like the old days.
They would never give them scraps or leftovers.

Many feed them quite expensive best for your dog wet and dried food.
Everything fed to them was bought for them.

So yes, all scraps either go in the bin or are composted.

That’s true. Our dogs are fed before us. If there’s anything safe, it may top the meal the next day but I was always advised not to give them mushrooms or tomatoes so it’s the bin for our leftovers

 

[Baby baby Jane]

This is excellent sleuthing. Why were there no shiitake and other exotic style mushrooms in there if the tupperware container had the ‘Chinese mushrooms’ in them. Surely no legitimate cook in their right mind would add powdered mushroom for flavour to a dish.

So there’s also a food processor and jar, empty or still containing powdered DC dumped somewhere …
Picturing her dropping kids at school, converting pantry to a clean room, EP with nitrile gloves, PPE mask, goggles over her reading glasses … blitzing the dried DC into a fine powder, weighing the powder and trying to figure out 50g of DC powder vs 50g mushroom flesh. IMO drying made the mushroom more concentrated and a little powder would be a lot of toxin. (Wonder if LE checked the history on her calculator app … if that’s possible)c

 

[mamamama9873]

If it's true that Erin only ate a third of hers, well, I would notice that. If the cook wasn't eating much of her own creation. I don't know what conclusion I'd draw, but I would notice it.

A different color plate? I'd notice that too.

JMO

I think that possibly the whole circumstances of the lunch seemed odd to Heather - why were they all invited all of a sudden, the talk about the possible cancer/ cancer diagnosis might have been odd. Erin being secretive about her pantry.

Maybe Heather just felt the whole lunch meeting was a bit off and the different coloured plate really puzzled her and it dawned on her what could have been happening when her and Ian were so unwell after the lunch.

 

[CuriousDetective]

I live in an urban city centre in a country with not much variety of wildlife, however, I would still worry that rats, mice, squirrels, foxes, would do their utmost to get into a bin which smelled of lovely beef wellington. Not to mention pet cats and dogs.

Bearing in mind it would seem Simon's intended portion got wholly binned, did she not care a jot for the possibility that some form of creature even it were only small beetles or flies or suchlike would try to get at the disposed poisonous food?

Strange IMO.

I don’t think it is strange at all. I think this is a cultural/differences in countries thing.

All our food scraps and leftovers that aren’t eaten (other than those that are composted) end up in the garbage bin that ends up on the street once a week waiting for the rubbish truck. This is standard in Australia pretty much regardless of where you live. I have lived in cities, towns, and on a farm, in two different states and never once have I even thought about wildlife/animals getting into the rubbish and I have never had it happen to my bin.

I have certainly seen it take place when travelling in Canada, but never here.

Our bins in Australia are wheelie bins with lids. By the beach I have seen Ibis and seagulls steal food from bins, but these are open, fixed bins.

 

[mamamama9873]

Actually, powdered mushrooms specifically are known to impart the best Umami flavour.
Erin missed an opportunity to explain why she'd powdered the mushrooms, rather than lying and saying they were left 'chopped'.

Point taken, I’m not much of a seasoned cook myself so had no idea

 

[Warshawski]

Oh my goodness she really thinks she’s beyond clever, doesn’t she?

She seems so cool & calm - it’s bordering on arrogance imo.

 

[MaxDecimus13]

So long as they were pink as buttons or choc brown as flats, I picked buckets of them, just field mushrooms. Even at 7, I never picked anything that wasn’t safe and it was just me and my dog wandering through fields, a great childhood in the Australian countryside.

On a separate note, I've never understood foraging. If I loved wild-picking strawberries, but there was a 0.1% chance I'd land on a fatal version, I don't think I would.

And their mushrooms for God's sake, it's not like you're picking steak

 

[Porky1]

Yes!
I’ve wondered all along why the bin outside, no one uses a garbage disposal in Australia?
Wildlife doesn’t get into food smelling trash cans?

We don’t have bears, locked bins or bear lockers.

No, our wildlife tend to stay out of our bins thankfully.

I can’t recall the last time I heard someone install a kitchen disposal system either. Generally, just the kitchen tidy and the curb side wheelie bin for Aust homes.