Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

[LinasK]

I've been trying to work this out in my head.

Are death cap mushrooms pungent?

Did someone know that and research similarly pungent mushrooms, of the nontoxic variety, in order to practice, experimenting with amounts which could be successfully disguised, with her children as the guinea pigs in her blind tests?

Can you buy non-toxic, nose-toxic stinkweed mushroom powder off the Internets? Decidedly not an Asian market, certainly not a recent trip to an actual store, but maybe a premeditated online purchase to practice putting mushroom powder where it doesn't belong?

Jmo

Um. never thought about it until now, bought it at least 3 months ago, but YES. I bought some "Umami Mushroom" seasoning blend in the spice department at Target Department store. Brand is Good & Gather. We've used maybe 1/4 inch of the jar without any toxic effects. It is powdered. Ingredients: Salt, garlic, porcini mushroom powder, turmeric, crushed red pepper, black pepper, ground mustard, onion, thyme leaves. Oh, and the smell is aromatic, not ammonia.

 

[JBowie]

What ? She’d had the Gastric Bypass - when ?

I thought we only heard that she was ‘ thinking about / planning to have ‘ Gastric Bypass.

Surely the prosecution has her medical records … then again she’ll probably say she saw a different Doctor ( can she be forced to divulge who she saw ?)

Good pickup.

I wonder if that was misheard evidence by the reporter?

 

[LinasK]

Um. never thought about it until now, bought it at least 3 months ago, but YES. I bought some "Umami Mushroom" spice at Target Department store. Brand is Good & Gather. We've used maybe 1/4 inch of the jar without any toxic effects. It is powdered. Ingredients: Salt, garlic, porcini mushroom powder, turmeric, crushed red pepper, black pepper, ground mustard, onion, thyme leaves. Oh, and the smell is aromatic, not ammonia.

I use it on steak to be clear, not hidden in muffins or brownies...

 

[Ellery84]

And she would have made herself vomit at the hospital to display her symptoms. Should have been quite good at self induced vomiting as a bulimic right? Why didn’t she throw up there? Along with her “diarrhoea” MOO

Good point.

 

[ch_13]

All the prosecutor needs to do now is to get Erin to flash some anger on the stand. Her real personality is shining through. She's not the sweet, innocent DIL/wife/mother that she makes herself out to be.

There was something she said the other day, about the cops being "silly" to leave her phone connected to the internet. Even in writing it came off as very jarring thing to say for someone who's accused of murder. I wonder how it came off in the courtroom.

 

[Detechtive]

What ? She’d had the Gastric Bypass - when ?

I thought we only heard that she was ‘ thinking about / planning to have ‘ Gastric Bypass.

Surely the prosecution has her medical records … then again she’ll probably say she saw a different Doctor ( can she be forced to divulge who she saw ?)

She's speaking in the future tense, IMO. She hasn't had gastric bypass, IMO.

 

[katydid23]

Yes but she was also practicing on her children. And IMO it wasn't to sneak in nutrition nor acclimate them to mushrooms. Why bother hiding store-bought mushrooms? What would be the point????

I agree. I used to try and hide broccoli and cauliflower by pulverising it into various recipes with cheesy sauces to help camouflage it. But mushrooms don't give children the same vitamins and nutrients IIUC.

I theorize that she was working out how to hide pungent/repugnant mushrooms.

Yes. I wonder what mushrooms she found that were similar to the pungent smell of DCs?

But you're right, a carbonara would never do. She needed a recipe with strong competing aromas/flavors already.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Apparently dried death caps smell like ammonia / cat urine.

and she didn't toss them?

After our cat got very old, and began having issues, we threw away our expensive couch and antique rug. And she wouldn't toss some random mushrooms she picked in the park?

 

[Detechtive]

Honest question:

We know there's anorexia. We know there's bulimia. Is there an actual, recognized eating disorder for people who (need to) control what other people eat?

We know about parents who withhold food from, say, one child or captors who torment with food, but twice now, it's been reported that Erin said she was embarrassed that she control her weight and that she couldn't control what she ate.

So did she take to controlling what other people ate? Mushrooms in her kids brownies, I mean, what the what.

Did she play a role in her daughter's tummy trouble? So she could be the nurse?

Munchausen by duxelle.

JMO

There is a paraphilia around "Feeders" but they usually want to fatten people up, and it is a sexual desire to see people eating and expanding.

My family are very much focused on good food, but it is not obsessive or toxic. We just love beautiful food and all of our gatherings are centred around food. I would say we definitely nurture through food, as a family. "Feasts" are central in history, though, so I would think it is a normal social condition to gather around food.

The accessibility to food and being the host is quite central to poisoners general MO. IMO
It's a passive aggressive, opportunistic, and sneaky way to kill.

 

[katydid23]

There was something she said the other day, about the cops being "silly" to leave her phone connected to the internet. Even in writing it came off as very jarring thing to say for someone who's accused of murder. I wonder how it came off in the courtroom.

IIRC, she said something like:
I wondered if the cops were silly enough to keep the wifi turned on so I gave it a try and wiped it.

 

[Jake18]

I would say we definitely nurture through food, as a family.

Which is why the concept of someone - a mother, even- deliberately poisoning their family at a feast they’ve created seems so subversive.

Something that is supposed to be nourishing turning out to be so toxic.

 

[L_B]

She fed BW leftovers to her kids the following day... She threw out Simons complete portion of BW...
What leftovers did she feed her kids? Her part eaten portion? Why did she keep that, yet bin an untouched portion?
The logic isn't logic-ing.

So I listened to the ABC podcast from yesterday (and tangent, like others I don't like the new reporter on there!) and they said that Erin claimed to have thrown out just the pastry and mushrooms (which ok, if she supposedly scraped it off and the kids ate the meat)... however I thought if this statement was what she said, that is quite interesting, given that the leftovers taken from the bin had meat in it right? It's not adding up!

 

[SouthAussie]

So I listened to the ABC podcast from yesterday (and tangent, like others I don't like the new reporter on there!) and they said that Erin claimed to have thrown out just the pastry and mushrooms (which ok, if she supposedly scraped it off and the kids ate the meat)... however I thought if this statement was what she said, that is quite interesting, given that the leftovers taken from the bin had meat in it right? It's not adding up!

Yes, the toxicologist found toxin in a beef sample from the leftovers in the bin.


A forensic toxicologist who examined the mushroom paste and meat taken from the leftovers found at Erin Patterson’s home after the fatal beef Wellington lunch said the samples tested positive for death cap mushroom toxins.
The leftovers were found in a bin at Patterson’s house.

Death cap mushroom toxins found in lunch leftovers, Erin Patterson murder trial hears

A forensic toxicologist who examined the mushroom paste and beef taken from the leftovers said the samples tested positive for the toxins.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Jess D]

IIRC, she said something like:
I wondered if the cops were silly enough to keep the wifi turned on so I gave it a try and wiped it.

She says that she has self-esteem issues, which could be right, but she appears to have a healthy ego...

 

[Kemug]

It was said early in the piece that Erin asked Simon’s brother if he would look after them, but I don’t know if that’s what happened.

I don't see why Simon should lose his children as well as his parents and his aunt. I would venture to say that he is well rid of his wife. MOO

 

[findmollie]

Yes, the toxicologist found toxin in a beef sample from the leftovers in the bin.


A forensic toxicologist who examined the mushroom paste and meat taken from the leftovers found at Erin Patterson’s home after the fatal beef Wellington lunch said the samples tested positive for death cap mushroom toxins.
The leftovers were found in a bin at Patterson’s house.

Death cap mushroom toxins found in lunch leftovers, Erin Patterson murder trial hears

A forensic toxicologist who examined the mushroom paste and beef taken from the leftovers said the samples tested positive for the toxins.

www.theage.com.au

I thought this was well after the children had eaten the leftovers though. She threw it out as it had made people sick, before she understood why (assuming innocence until proven guilty).

 

[findmollie]

I don't see why Simon should lose his children as well as his parents and his aunt. I would venture to say that he is well rid of his wife. MOO

Legally, he's the dad. If he's not looking after the children, it's because he doesn't want to.

 

[Kemug]

So I've just finished the ABC podcast and the thing that stood out the most to the female broadcaster (Rachael) this week was whenever Erin spoke about belonging and how kind her in-laws had been to her...

How to say you want her to get off without actually saying it.

Tbf they did acknowledge today that she had disagreed with quite a large number of people now.

I shouldn't think she's ever lost an argument.

 

[Kemug]

Legally, he's the dad. If he's not looking after the children, it's because he doesn't want to.

But I should think he is looking after them.

 

[Detechtive]

But I should think he is looking after them.

I think originally while the police investigation was ongoing, the children were going to be taken into care by the state unless a suitable non-parent alternative were caretaking. Simon's sister or sister in law (I can't remember which she is) looked after them. Tanya. IMO