Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

[JennieM]

First post on this site. I've been to the area of the trial. Korumburra/Leongatha is a nice area. It has a picnic farm the public can go to, and a school camp. It's the place where nothing happens for 20 years.

Having read through much of this thread, I agree with people that her actions and lies are suspicious. If I had been doing a drinking game for every mention of the mysterious "Asian Grocer" I'd be blotto on the floor. She is a mushroom enthusiast. She normally gets her mushrooms from other shops or forages. Surely this one trip to the Asian Grocer she would remember something more than vaguely it was in "Oakleigh". How did it compare to her normal shopping trips for mushrooms? Further away? Closer? You have to conclude surely that there was no Asian Grocer. It was her lie and fantasy.

I can't add a lot to people's excellent posts. Only that I know Dr Tom May and he is an excellent mycologist. Erin Patterson saying she knows more than what he does - that's like knowing more archaeology than Indiana Jones.

Welcome, great first post.

 

[Ellery84]

The biggest difficulty is the Pastor and his wife. Why try to murder these 2 people as well? The reality is it becomes more improbable (but not impossible) as the reasons become more extreme

I think the prosecution is suggesting she co-opted more and more relatives to come to the lunch as a larger lure for Simon to attend. Hence why she branched out to also include Ian and Heather. IMO allegedly

 

[katydid23]

Of course they don't need to prove motive, but it is a factor on weighing up the probability of whether she did.

Had Simon alone died, there would have been no difficulty, because we know spouses murder each other.

The biggest difficulty is the Pastor and his wife. Why try to murder these 2 people as well? The reality is it becomes more improbable (but not impossible) as the reasons become more extreme. We're left with much rarer examples of murder, or significant harm if that is what she intended.

You bring up an interesting point, about how unusual it would be for her to target all 4 people for death, especially the Pastor and his wife, who she was only tangentially related to.

My suspicions are that she purposely went for all 4 as a way to make it seem unlikely. As you say, WHY would she dare do something so extreme and unnecessary? Most observers assume it is improbable.

But the more I learn about the situation, the more suspicious I am. I think she was angry at Simon and wanted to hurt him the way she felt he was hurting her. Going after his family was one big way to do so.

And people would assume it was a tragic accident. No one would intentionally poison 4 lovely, kind hearted relatives for no reason.

I do believe that she was behind Simon's mystery illness last year. If that is actually true then it makes more sense that she might be foolish enough to try it again. She got away with it last year.

This time she'd use a more powerful poison and choose a larger target. IMO

The nature of the cover up, adds to this level of doubt.

Prior to taking the stand, I'd have been inclined to at least say that the prosecution hadn't proved it, and probably closer to thinking a tragic accident was more likely.

However, her testimony has allowed a much deeper examination of her as a person. We've discovered that she routinely lies for self-gain and attention, she has inserted more doubt into her story and made some of those less plausible motives appear more plausible.

 

[BreakingNews]

Dogs (and cats) are not meant to have a vegetarian diet.

Was a joke, Jess

 

[JBowie]

The ABC podcast is terribly biased, IMO.

ABC personnel biased? Never!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Re the DC mushrooms - dehydrated then powdered...

If EP had completely dehydrated the mushrooms, would she not then need to render them to a fine powder / dust by grinding them up in a mortar and pestle? Then store that powder in a safe jar that her children wouldn't accidentally touch. Would have been quite a big thing for her.

If she made all the BW's and then sprinkled some DC powder into the top before putting the 'lid' on, maybe she wasn't sure what effect it would have being unsure exactly of the potency of first dehydrated then ground into powder mushrooms - it would be hard to know what you're dealing with.

She herself may have been taken by surprise at the rapidity and extreme reaction, explaining her panic. But where did she put the powder preparation items? And the container of the powder? At that point, she'd known the tiniest trace could kill either her, one or both her children, a guest or visitor, or the dog. She must have prepped and disposed under highly controlled circumstances, maybe wearing a face mask and gloves?

I seem to recall at the beginning it was said LE were taking apart her plumbing to look for traces, makes sense to me if they did.

JMO MOO

 

[BreakingNews]

I think @BreakingNews was referring to the ABC reporters on the podcast.

They are required to be unbiased which means they take the lawful and fair stance of 'innocent until proven guilty'.

Exactly what I meant. I was referring to another post.Thanks, Bats.

 

[Jess D]

Was a joke, Jess

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

You bring up an interesting point, about how unusual it would be for her to target all 4 people for death, especially the Pastor and his wife, who she was only tangentially related to.

My suspicions are that she purposely went for all 4 as a way to make it seem unlikely. As you say, WHY would she dare do something so extreme and unnecessary? Most observers assume it is improbable.

But the more I learn about the situation, the more suspicious I am. I think she was angry at Simon and wanted to hurt him the way she felt he was hurting her. Going after his family was one big way to do so.

And people would assume it was a tragic accident. No one would intentionally poison 4 lovely, kind hearted relatives for no reason.

I do believe that she was behind Simon's mystery illness last year. If that is actually true then it makes more sense that she might be foolish enough to try it again. She got away with it last year.

This time she'd use a more powerful poison and choose a larger target. IMO

Maybe it was a tragic accident!

Maybe she really didn't intend to poison all four of them (but only one) but something went wrong.
Maybe that's why she was shocked and in tailspin.
People have said here many times it only takes a tiny amount of DC poison to kill a person.
Maybe she messed up really badly and took out a whole load of people.

 

[Jake18]

 

[JennieM]

Was a joke, Jess

 

[Two SCents]

So I listened to the ABC podcast from yesterday (and tangent, like others I don't like the new reporter on there!) and they said that Erin claimed to have thrown out just the pastry and mushrooms (which ok, if she supposedly scraped it off and the kids ate the meat)... however I thought if this statement was what she said, that is quite interesting, given that the leftovers taken from the bin had meat in it right? It's not adding up!

Could the meat have been from her half eaten one?

According to EP... she made 6 and put one in the fridge. She only ate 1/2 of hers. She gave the children meat from the leftovers after scraping mushrooms off and microwaving.
According to her son they had steak cut into cubes with nothing on it.
According to the police officer who went to her house he found leftovers from one or two beef Wellingtons.
According to footage of Dr Foote taking photos of the leftovers, she pulled out dark coloured substance presumably the filling and a larger piece the outer pastry of a beef Wellington.

Possibly the half eaten BW of Erin's lunch and the outer shell of the 6th BW?

 

[Kemug]

She said she needs to be able to lip read when she is listening to people speak, so her staring intently is one of the few things that there is definitely an innocent explanation for in this case.

Oh well, if Erin says so, it must be true.

 

[katydid23]

Maybe it was a tragic accident!

Maybe she really didn't intend to poison all four of them (but only one) but something went wrong.

But how would that be possible that she intended to poison one and somehow got all 4? She made individual BWs. She could have easily targeted just one person by only adding the deadly powder to just one pastry.

Maybe that's why she was shocked and in tailspin.

She was shocked and in a tailspin probably because she didn't expect them to start testing for death caps so soon. I think she was banking upon them not figuring it out so quickly. After 48 hrs the poison dissipates and she'd be home free.

People have said here many times it only takes a tiny amount of DC poison to kill a person.

But 5 BWs were served that afternoon and only one person walked away healthy. That means that EPs pastry had no Death Caps added to it. But each of the other ones were loaded with powdered death caps, which enter the bloodstream immediately. It is very lethal.

Maybe she messed up really badly and took out a whole load of people.

How was it an accident?

They tested the leftovers and found evidence of death cap toxins. BUT NO EVIDENCE OF Death Caps themselves. She did not accidentally add foraged mushrooms into the meals.

She first dehydrated the death caps, probably 5 to 10 actual mushrooms, and then chopped them into fine pieces and then used a mortar and pestle or an electric grinder, to turn them into a fine powder. Which she then sprinkled INTO EACH INDIVIDUAL PASTRY.

So how could it have been an accident that she took out 4 people?

 

[JennieM]

Sorry if this has been posted already.

Australia's mushroom trial update: lead detective and mycologists among witnesses called – video​

Australia's mushroom trial update: lead detective and mycologists among witnesses called – video

Justice and courts reporter Nino Bucci recaps the latest in the triple murder trial proceedings

www.theguardian.com

 

[Detechtive]

Maybe it was a tragic accident!

Maybe she really didn't intend to poison all four of them (but only one) but something went wrong.
Maybe that's why she was shocked and in tailspin.
People have said here many times it only takes a tiny amount of DC poison to kill a person.
Maybe she messed up really badly and took out a whole load of people.

Maybe it was.

But that would mean that 36,442,460 other coincidences and pre and post lunch 'bumbles' just so happened to occur around the event. And that, is extraordinarily unlikely, IMO.

 

[katydid23]

Could the meat have been from her half eaten one?

NO, I don't think so. I think the ONLY one it couldn't have been was EP's because she didn't add any death caps to hers, IMO. Unlike her lunch guests, she suffered no severe ill effects from eating half of her BW.

It was probably remnants of the extra one made for Simon or the scraps left from the others. I say that because there were traces of poison in the meat they tested.

According to EP... she made 6 and put one in the fridge. She only ate 1/2 of hers. She gave the children meat from the leftovers after scraping mushrooms off and microwaving.
According to her son they had steak cut into cubes with nothing on it.
According to the police officer who went to her house he found leftovers from one or two beef Wellingtons.
According to footage of Dr Foote taking photos of the leftovers, she pulled out dark coloured substance presumably the filling and a larger piece the outer pastry of a beef Wellington.

Possibly the half eaten BW of Erin's lunch and the outer shell of the 6th BW?

View attachment 592671View attachment 592670

 

[L_B]

NO, I don't think so. I think the ONLY one it couldn't have been was EP's because she didn't add any death caps to hers, IMO.

It was probably remnants of the extra one made for Simon or the scraps left from the others. I say that because there were traces of poison in the meat they tested.

This is where the maths of the meat doesn't add up... it's so confusing. TBH I think she had extra steak(s) and just gave them that.

 

[whiskia]

I think if a simple act of vomiting after eating death caps could mean you do not experience any illness, that would be one of the important recommendations.

Erin would not have been able to throw up for a few or several hours, as she ate around 1pm, they talked awhile, served dessert and then the kids arrived home and sat and talked together, and then later, she said she ate several servings of orange cake and THEN she felt stuffed and brought it back up/

By that time, the toxins were already in her blood stream and her gastro-intestinal tract and soon the liver.


Q: does vomiting immediately after ingesting death caps prevent illness?

While vomiting can expel some stomach contents,
it's highly unlikely to prevent severe illness from death cap mushroom poisoning.
Here's why:

• Delayed Symptom Onset: Symptoms like nausea and vomiting usually don't begin until 6 to 24 hours after ingestion, which is too late to effectively remove the absorbed amatoxins.
• Rapid Absorption: Amatoxins are quickly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract and transported to the liver, where they begin causing damage, even if you vomit soon after eating the mushroom.
• Persistent Damage: Even if you vomit, the toxins already absorbed continue to harm your liver and other organs.

She may have vomited earlier than she says and also taken steps such as eating charcoal tablets beforehand to provide a safe landing pad to reduce toxin absorption...

 

[JennieM]

She may have vomited earlier than she says and also taken steps such as eating charcoal tablets beforehand to provide a safe landing pad to reduce toxin absorption...

Your message about charcoal tablets is making me wonder if she had indocyanine green which is an antidote to death cap mushrooms poising.