Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #12 *Arrest*

[JBowie]

I am not sure yet, it has nothing to do with her sex. I haven’t ’brushed aside facts’, Iam just not sure the prosecution’s case is as strong as I expected. Much can be explained, more than I expected.

Any 'explanations' proffered by EP so far have been contrary to evidence, or contrary to common sense, or contrary to both, and therefore IMO simply more of her lies.

I trust that the jurors can see that and I hope that, for good measure, the prosecution drives all of that home in their closing remarks.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I assume if EP miraculously walks free that she will be making her Defence Team a celebratory dinner served up on unmatched plates consisting of a starter of Garlic Mushrooms followed by Mushroom Risotto and finally a choice of Chocolate Brownies or Orange Cake to gorge on and throw up?

 

[Montrealaise]

I don't see this as an inconsistency, this is the one (and probably only) thing I do believe about her - she has internalised shame around her weight and eating. You can be self conscious eating in front of others as you think you are being judged for what you eat and in turn your weight, so you wouldn't eat large portions or choose anything too "fatty" "sugary" etc. You do the binge eating in private, a lot of the time binging is done cos it's a learned response by the brain to make yourself feel "better" as you briefly enjoy the food, but then after are met with more regret and shame for having scarfed down a whole cake for example....

However I think she is leveraging her binge eating, and supposed bulima as a way to excuse her not being more sick, this is where I call BS.

Or she only wanted a nibble of the deathly wellington to only get a bit sick (I jest, I know not possible with how the toxins work)

Let's say she did eat some of the death cap mushrooms (they're so toxic even a small amount can kill you) and then threw up the meal later. Unless she threw up immediately after eating the beef Wellington, wouldn't the toxins have had time to get into her bloodstream?

 

[L_B]

Just watched Jahan Kalantar on TikTok, he is a defense lawyer doing summaries of this trial, about today's cross he says the prosecution "has gone about it impeccably"

 

[L_B]

Let's say she did eat some of the death cap mushrooms (they're so toxic even a small amount can kill you) and then threw up the meal later. Unless she threw up immediately after eating the beef Wellington, wouldn't the toxins have had time to get into her bloodstream?

Oh yes that's why I said the last line in jest

 

[Kemug]

Like everyone we all have our different foods that are hard to resist.
Mine is ice cream so I rarely have it at home.

Maybe meat isn't a temptation for EP.

It's very likely she just couldn't resist the cake.

I absolutely love Coles' Orange & Poppyseed Cake - and nothing and nobody will make me stop eating it!

 

[MrJ]

So... the entire reason you invited your in-laws and relative of your in-law was because you wanted to discuss your (fake) cancer... but at your criminal murder trial you deny you told them you had cancer? Sorry, her response just reads like total word salad to me

"I can't remember the precise words, but I do know that what I was trying to communicate was that … I was undergoing investigations around ovarian cancer and might need treatment in that regard in the future," she told the court.

"I can't say that that was the specific words I used but … that was what I was meaning to communicate."

Erin Patterson denies telling lunch guests she had cancer in murder trial

Accused triple-murderer Erin Patterson has denied telling guests at her fatal lunch that she had cancer, despite evidence to the contrary given earlier in the trial by the sole surviving guest.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Montrealaise]

Yeah I've noticed how some people seem to brush aside the facts and bad things about her because they want her to be innocent. I don't understand it but it happens in lots of cases.

Many people don't think that a woman can be a psychopath or actually murder someone. There have been quite a few female murderers in history (poison is usually the method of choice, BTW) but these people are conditioned to only see women as victims, never victimizers. The fact that she is a white, middle-class wife and mother also feeds into that perception.

 

[Montrealaise]

Nonetheless, Dr Google says: Obesity is linked to an increased risk of developing at least 13 types of cancer. These cancers include those of the esophagus, breast, liver, gallbladder, kidney, bowel, multiple myeloma, meningioma, thyroid, gastric cardia, pancreas, ovaries, and uterus. The connection between obesity and cancer is complex, involving factors like increased insulin, inflammation, and altered hormone levels.

She is now claiming that she suffers from bulimia - but aren't sufferers of bulimia and other EDs usually skinny, since they see the bulimia as a way to keep their weight down? And yet she's obese.

 

[cocomonkey]

She is now claiming that she suffers from bulimia - but aren't sufferers of bulimia and other EDs usually skinny, since they see the bulimia as a way to keep their weight down? And yet she's obese.

No, not al people with Bulimia are skinny. People with anorexia are skinny but Bulimia is just a habit of over eating or binging then purging. They can be any shape or size.

 

[MrJ]

Claiming the sole survivor of the lunch as basically a liar seems profoundly unfair.

 

[iamshadow21]

Reading about today's cross was a trip. So many weasel words, lying by omissions, and forgetting things they have proof for.

She's coming for your crown, Belle!


Image source

MOO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

So... the entire reason you invited your in-laws and relative of your in-law was because you wanted to discuss your (fake) cancer... but at your criminal murder trial you deny you told them you had cancer? Sorry, her response just reads like total word salad to me

"I can't remember the precise words, but I do know that what I was trying to communicate was that … I was undergoing investigations around ovarian cancer and might need treatment in that regard in the future," she told the court.

Erin Patterson denies telling lunch guests she had cancer in murder trial

Accused triple-murderer Erin Patterson has denied telling guests at her fatal lunch that she had cancer, despite evidence to the contrary given earlier in the trial by the sole surviving guest.

www.abc.net.au

Maybe she can’t remember precise words she said (such a lie response). Is she saying, in court, that she said everything possible to imply ovarian cancer diagnosis without actually saying the word “diagnosed”? And that the jury must understand that she didn’t exactly say “I have cancer” but wanted them to think she “had cancer”? So she could access care and support ?

More important than her precise words … is
That Ian remembers what he HEARD!

 

[MaxDecimus13]

Let's say she did eat some of the death cap mushrooms (they're so toxic even a small amount can kill you) and then threw up the meal later. Unless she threw up immediately after eating the beef Wellington, wouldn't the toxins have had time to get into her bloodstream?

I think you need to eat more of it than you realise. I'm pretty sure at one point they said something like 50g.

That's for death though. For Erin to have not got ill, she has to have been incredibly lucky. She's already admitted to tasting the mushroom mix, so it stands to reason that she tasted it again to see if it was better. If it was then better, we also have to believe that she didn't try very much of it - that's not what I'm like when I cook.

Then of course she eats the meal, but only 1/3 to 1/2 of the actual Wellington and managed to chuck it up before getting seriously ill. I still find this odd. If she'd had something like a burger and chips, would it not be odd if she'd had 1/3rd of the burger regardless of the size of the meal, especially if she was enjoying it.

I'll be honest, I don't feel like the toxins thing has quite been proved. I'd like to hear from an expert exactly how long it could take to get in her system. I'd expect the defence have looked into this too. Regardless of this, it is extremely convenient that she happened to have an eating disorder that nobody knew about and she didn't mention until the trial.

If I were a juror, because of the prior lies she's told, I'd find it hard to accept that this isn't a convenient lie. I actually think she could be innocent, but she'll become a poster woman for what no to do if you're accused of a crime.

 

[SouthAussie]

Claiming the sole survivor of the lunch as basically a liar seems profoundly unfair.

Don Patterson also told Simon that she said she had ovarian cancer and how would she tell the children.
Her son's grandfather, who died a horrible death, the man her son had a close relationship with.
She basically said that he was mistaken also.

Everybody else is mistaken. Even the victims.

imo

 

[iamshadow21]

I think you need to eat more of it than you realise. I'm pretty sure at one point they said something like 50g.

That's for death though. For Erin to have not got ill, she has to have been incredibly lucky. She's already admitted to tasting the mushroom mix, so it stands to reason that she tasted it again to see if it was better. If it was then better, we also have to believe that she didn't try very much of it - that's not what I'm like when I cook.

Then of course she eats the meal, but only 1/3 to 1/2 of the actual Wellington and managed to chuck it up before getting seriously ill. I still find this odd. If she'd had something like a burger and chips, would it not be odd if she'd had 1/3rd of the burger regardless of the size of the meal, especially if she was enjoying it.

I'll be honest, I don't feel like the toxins thing has quite been proved. I'd like to hear from an expert exactly how long it could take to get in her system. I'd expect the defence have looked into this too. Regardless of this, it is extremely convenient that she happened to have an eating disorder that nobody knew about and she didn't mention until the trial.

If I were a juror, because of the prior lies she's told, I'd find it hard to accept that this isn't a convenient lie. I actually think she could be innocent, but she'll become a poster woman for what no to do if you're accused of a crime.

Nowhere near fifty grams.

Just one mushroom can kill.

Poisonous mushrooms growing in Victoria

Poisonous mushrooms including Death Cap mushrooms and Yellow-staining mushrooms occur in Victoria during Autumn, as the weather becomes wetter and cooler.

www.health.vic.gov.au

 

[JennieM]

Erin has changed her story many times. And yet she says she's telling the truth.

She’s telling the truth until the next piece of evidence is found.

 

[JBowie]

Everybody else is mistaken. Even the victims.

imo

I'm almost waiting for a "they were stealing the strawberries" moment.

 

[JennieM]

Plenty of people have more than one phone, more than one device and more than one set of scales.

Not many whose second phone disappears during a police search though.

 

[MrJ]

5h ago
Things we learned today

By Judd Boaz

Both the defence and the prosecution had an opportunity to question accused killer Erin Patterson today.

Much of the day's questioning featured crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers SC suggesting propositions to Erin, which were then emphatically denied.

Here's what we learned today from her testimony:

1. Erin confirmed she lied about her dehydrator and history of foraging to police. She described her lying to police as a "stupid, kneejerk reaction", saying she was scared but that she shouldn't have done it.
2.Photos were shown to the court of what appeared to be Erin's kitchen, which Erin said she had no memory of taking. Erin denied that photos that appeared to be of mushrooms sitting on her kitchen bench were death cap mushrooms. This conflicts with mycologist Tom May's evidence that the appearance was consistent with death caps.
3.Erin confirmed she had foraged for wild mushrooms in the months before the July 29 lunch.
4.Erin conceded that it was "probably true" that she knew she would become a suspect if she told police the truth about her dehydrating of mushrooms.
5.Erin denied she had told her Facebook friends she was an atheist, denied she was very close to Christine Hunt, a previous witness, and denied she had used emojis to mock the Pattersons praying for her.
6.Erin denied she told her lunch guests that she had cancer, a contradiction to testimony given by Ian Wilkinson and Simon Patterson.
7.We also learned that the trial may extend even longer than planned, with Justice Beale telling the jury there was a possibility that more evidence could be presented.