Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #8 *Arrest*

[Megnut]

I am never buying a food dehydrator from a thrift store.

JMO

 

[Old Soul]

You know what, this does sound like a storyline right out of an Agatha Christie novel. And then there were none, A Murder is announced etc. Turns out the host/hostess is the murderer, meaning to stage a murder party.

Yes!! I do recall reading that she was an avid reader of the crime/mystery genre. It is not a stretch to imagine some of the poisonings in Agatha Christie novels inspired/informed her actions in the alleged murders and any past poisoning attempts.

'I think she was also into a lot of crime fiction. Like Agatha Christie,' the person claimed. (A former online friend of EP)

Mushroom chef's Facebook messages leak

Mushroom chef Erin Patterson lashed out at her local community while putting together the local newspaper, an insider has revealed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[arrogantcat]

If the cancer was a lie, what was the purpose if the luncheon?

Doh.

JMO

And it makes no sense! Inviting people over, which you've never done before, to serve a meal long in preparation (with or without death seasoning), to alert them to a... health concern. I've gathered you all here today, let me adjust my dramatic flourish, to... tell you I'm having a biopsy.

No one does that. Certainly not Erin, with any other health concerns she might have had.

So she's suddenly an alarmist? Wants to bring in-laws in so they can properly worry? Oh, but notice, I could be dying of Cancer Biopsy but my only concern is the children.

Erin, if you didn't invite them over to tell them you had cancer, why did you invite them? And what was so very important but super secret you couldn't tell them over the phone?

I have questions.

JMO

Absolutely! Can you imagine?

‘thanks for coming, ex in laws and tangential family members of them that I don’t know that well. I wanted you all to know that I recently had a smear, and have been asked to go back for a second one”

But if the elbow-lump references are true there’s a possibility her medical records will say something about testing and biopsies around that time. Something they can try and spin as “they were ruling out cancer, and that it what Erin shared at lunch. <Victim> heard ‘cancer’ and must have misunderstoo ”.

Not sure anyone would buy it, but a good defence team will try anything!

 

[arrogantcat]

Maybe that’s why he declined going to the lunch though

Surely if he suspected she was capable of poisoning, he wouldn’t allow his elderly family members to attend though? Or let his children continue to live with her!

 

[arrogantcat]

Highly unlikely IMO. The Prosecution would make mincemeat (sans mushrooms) of her given her litany of admitted lies.

Agreed! Although selfishly I really want her to stand, because her attempts to explain it all would be totally fascinating!

 

[Detechtive]

I just can't get past the cancer lie to lure them there. That in and of itself means that pretty much everything else that came from her mouth needs to be doubted. She has no credibility after that.

 

[Megnut]

Surely if he suspected she was capable of poisoning, he wouldn’t allow his elderly family members to attend though? Or let his children continue to live with her!

But he didn't say HE didn't go because he feared bring poisoned, did he? I suspect rather he didn't want a browbeating or an embarrassment in front of people. Bowed out.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

I get the theory behind hiding poisonous mushrooms in a meal that already has mushrooms. (Don't worry, I don't have cancer, I don't have death cap mushrooms, I don't have a food dehydrator, I'm not inviting anyone to lunch and I'm a bad enough cook without poison so y'all are safe.)

But I feel like it was the recipe itself that gave hospital staff the big red arrow.

If she had served anything else (which didn't have nontoxic mushrooms in it), would the thought of poisonous mushrooms have even crossed their minds? Could be spoilt dairy. Bad potato salad, they'd literally run down what everyone ate to see what caused the symptoms. Would death cap mushrooms even be on the short list of things to test for?

What's her explanation for why she didn't die?
JMO

 

[Spectrix]

Agreed! Although selfishly I really want her to stand, because her attempts to explain it all would be totally fascinating!

100 percent.
For someone who appears to be intelligent and well educated, she did an absolutely dreadful job of concealing the alleged murder. She changed her story multiple times, replacing lies with more lies.

I get the feeling that she initially thought that she'd planned the perfect mass murder, and it looks like she may have taken precautions in certain areas. For instance, the burner phone/tablet that was never recovered. Was this used for research and planning? Different phone number, different email account, no record of internet searches or notes that way.

The serious health concern to lure the guests which doubled as the perfect excuse to get the children out of the house.

The separate Beef Wellingtons so she could get the perfect amount of poison into every serve but her own, and the spare untainted beef wellington to provide to health authorities in the event that questions were asked.

But she subsequently failed to tie up a bunch off loose ends. Bragging to a facebook group about hiding dehydrated powdered mushrooms in everything. Telling Simon about the dehydrator at the hospital, and the experiments with muffins, and then denying to police that it ever existed. Performing a remote factory reset on her phone after it was seized, apparently when the police were still in the process of searching her house.

I also suspect that she'd failed to consider what a slow and agonising death the poison would cause, and that her victims would all seek medical attention and tell the hospital staff the premise of the luncheon as well as what they'd eaten.

I can't even imagine what the motive for such an act might be, but I found it interesting that she did her best to guilt and manipulate Simon into attending the lunch. How angry she must have been when he had the nerve to not attend his own murder, when she'd clearly put so much work into preparing for it.

 

[arrogantcat]

Telling Simon about the dehydrator at the hospital, and the experiments with muffins, and then denying to police that it ever existed.

This in particular is fascinating behaviour. It’s giving so-called ‘duper’s delight’: as if she was so proud of her (alleged) actions that she needed to tell someone, somehow.

And he was arguably the *worst* person to tell!

It does seem like she could have got away with it, with only some fairly simple planning.

Ditch the burner phone in advance. Turn off her phone when foraging. Announce she was going vegan a few months in advance and so be ‘unable’ to eat the same meal as her guests. Immediately admit that the mushrooms were foraged and claim she may have picked them in error. Retain the dehydrator and offer it to police right away to show compliance and a desire to help.
Skip all the Facebook posts and the guilty mushroom-chat.

It would still have been deeply suspicious, but pretty impossible to prove her guilt.

It’s always interesting how the decision to kill is just part of a whole chain of really stupid decisions that are made by a murderer.

 

[ch_13]

Well certainly uncaring by both Simon and Erin. Clever work by the defence is what i was meaning.
Obviously, everything Mr Mandy asked has a specific purpose which will all be pulled together at the end.

It doesn't hurt to play devil's advocate sometimes.

If you ask....What did the prosecution get out of Simon to show Erin intentionally poisoned her guests? ...Are you any closer?

I thought there was quite a bit of useful information during Simon's testimony. Of course, he wasn't at the lunch, so he couldn't testify to what happened there.

Still, the jury heard about Erin's history with him and his family. Simon is the best placed person to give that information and talk about the various disputes over child support and party invites. Additionally, Simon was able to relay what his father said before his death, as well as talk about his conversations with Erin following the poisonings...especially her lack of concern about the victims' well-being.

 

[ch_13]

It is specifically *young* death caps that resemble puffballs. It’s a well known issue in foraging for the danger it presents.

This photo shows death caps. Note the young ones on the right.

View attachment 583423

These are puffballs:

View attachment 583424

I think it’s likely the defence might suggest that this is what she mistook them for. I’m not saying it’s true — simply that it would make a plausible line of defence.

So, I did a bit of reading about this. Puffballs are white inside and have no gills, and are one solid mass with the texture of a marshmallow.


On the other hand, when cutting open an immature death cap, you'll see varying colors/textures and the outline of the mushroom that's growing inside.


Never take for granted you have a puffball. Always cut each one open vertically, top to bottom, and make sure it is one solid soft white mass inside with no outline. You should make sure the inside is pure white, never dark, and that the outer skin of the puffball is thin.

Puffballs, Small and Gigantic - Eat The Weeds and other things, too

Array

www.eattheweeds.com

 

[Spectrix]

It does seem like she could have got away with it, with only some fairly simple planning.

Ditch the burner phone in advance. Turn off her phone when foraging. Announce she was going vegan a few months in advance and so be ‘unable’ to eat the same meal as her guests. Immediately admit that the mushrooms were foraged and claim she may have picked them in error. Retain the dehydrator and offer it to police right away to show compliance and a desire to help.

I was thinking the only way she could have gotten away with the mass murder fungicide would be consuming a small measured amount of the toxin herself, but admittedly I like your vegan idea better. The idea of half-killing ones self in one of the most awful ways possible is not appealing. Even if it means staying out of jail.

I do wonder though, if she had planned on a different meal like individual shepard's pies with no mushrooms at all (aside from the powdered Death Caps), would the hospital staff have still figured it out?
I feel like once they knew mushrooms were in the dish, it made the notion of poison mushrooms an immediate possibility.

 

[Megnut]

A simple laxative would give symptoms. Temporary, nontoxic. So maybe there was a plan in place. Everyone would get sick, just for different reasons. If the leftover was tested, it would come back clean.

Didn't she want Simon to call her an ambulance? Her symptoms IMO were supposed to be more convincing and no one was supposed to look past the pristine BW.

JMO

 

[Tabulator]

Apologies... Dog jumped for the phone!

 

[Spectrix]

I actually love mushrooms and I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this trial makes me want to eat yummy wild mushrooms

I lived on an Acerage as a child and we picked mushrooms often.

 

[Detechtive]

I was thinking the only way she could have gotten away with the mass murder fungicide would be consuming a small measured amount of the toxin herself, but admittedly I like your vegan idea better. The idea of half-killing ones self in one of the most awful ways possible is not appealing. Even if it means staying out of jail.

I do wonder though, if she had planned on a different meal like individual shepard's pies with no mushrooms at all (aside from the powdered Death Caps), would the hospital staff have still figured it out?
I feel like once they knew mushrooms were in the dish, it made the notion of poison mushrooms an immediate possibility.

IMO, she thought everyone would look sick with food poisoning and quietly die at home without medical intervention. Within 2-3 days the mushroom is not traceable.

• Amanitins can be detected in urine, blood, bile, and liver tissue.
• Window of detection:
  
  • Urine: Detectable up to 72 hours post-ingestion.
  • Blood: Shorter detection window, often gone after 24–48 hours.
  • Tissues (especially liver): May retain toxins for several days.
• However, if no samples are collected quickly or the body is embalmed, or if self-digestion post-death occurs, toxin degradation or diffusion may lead to no detectable traces.

 

[MsMarple]

JMO it seems like the accused would have had enough knowledge about death caps to know not to try to make herself even a little ill by consuming a small amount of the poisonous mushrooms. Look how much we’ve learned here just from casual Google research. Would any of you risk eating any part of a death cap in order to fake poisoning? I wouldn’t, especially when there are non fatal alternatives like those already mentioned.

So I do believe there were two batches of mushrooms or else maybe powdered mushrooms sneaked into coffee or gravy as suggested by posters. Perhaps sneaking (safe) mushroom powder into the children’s brownies was to test whether or not they could taste it? Just a thought.

In the end I believe she fed herself and the kids safe food: IMO that’s going to factor in big time when considering intent. MOO

 

[Spectrix]

Perhaps sneaking (safe) mushroom powder into the children’s brownies was to test whether or not they could taste it? Just a thought.

I too think that this might have been a test and that she had originally considered sneaking powdered death caps into another dish.

 

[Megnut]

JMO it seems like the accused would have had enough knowledge about death caps to know not to try to make herself even a little ill by consuming a small amount of the poisonous mushrooms. Look how much we’ve learned here just from casual Google research. Would any of you risk eating any part of a death cap in order to fake poisoning? I wouldn’t, especially when there are non fatal alternatives like those already mentioned.

So I do believe there were two batches of mushrooms or else maybe powdered mushrooms sneaked into coffee or gravy as suggested by posters. Perhaps sneaking (safe) mushroom powder into the children’s brownies was to test whether or not they could taste it? Just a thought.

In the end I believe she fed herself and the kids safe food: IMO that’s going to factor in big time when considering intent. MOO

Like you, I don't think she would take any risk of poisoning herself. Funny, she knew to say she was in the bathroom every 20 minutes (when she wasn't), mirroring those who were actually poisoned. All you would have had to do is self-medicate (laxatives, diuretics), then play up symptoms. Based on the alleged crime, it would appear that everyone at lunch got food poisoning. Therefore no suspicion, for the very reason no one is going to poison herself.

I don't think there were ever two pots. Just one safe pot and a container of dried death cap (possibly still in the dehydrator) which could be spooned into each BW pastry. None left. All in the individual BWs. Save two that had none added. Hers. And Simon's no reason to add death cap powder to his because he wasn't coming.

No bowls, pots with death cap residue.

Just the empty dehydrator.

JMO