Yes. And the loans were significant, to three in-laws. Also paying $39 child support.
I wonder whether Simon wanted her back, purely to avoid going through financial separation and the in-laws needing to pay those loans up.
Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #8 *Arrest*
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I wonder whether Simon wanted her back, purely to avoid going through financial separation and the in-laws needing to pay those loans up.
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I wonder what people think Simon was doing with his salary, and his annual money gifts from his grandmother.
I think he was likely sinking all of that into the family expenses, perhaps some into mutual income property mortgages and maintenance ..... while Erin did not work.
We already know he was paying the children's school fees from his grandmother's annual monetary gift.
And there had been no reason for Erin not to work for about the last 6 years or so, while her children were in school for most of the day.
Obviously Erin still has a very significant income, if Simon's Child Support payments were determined to be so low.
I imagine she has a whole pile of money in the bank giving her substantial monthly interest payments as income, and perhaps rental property income as well.
imo
I think he was likely sinking all of that into the family expenses, perhaps some into mutual income property mortgages and maintenance ..... while Erin did not work.
We already know he was paying the children's school fees from his grandmother's annual monetary gift.
And there had been no reason for Erin not to work for about the last 6 years or so, while her children were in school for most of the day.
Obviously Erin still has a very significant income, if Simon's Child Support payments were determined to be so low.
I imagine she has a whole pile of money in the bank giving her substantial monthly interest payments as income, and perhaps rental property income as well.
imo
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I have a different theory to put forward which may explain why EP’s “after lunch” actions may seem so unplanned and disorganised.
So we can fairly assume that EP has had these mushrooms for several months. I think it was recorded that she visited Loch in April and bought a dehydrator then too. Based on how long these mushrooms can last in the fridge, she would have dehydrated them at end of April or in early May.
We just found out that EP had Gail, Don and (I think) Simon over approx a month before the deadly lunch where they had pie and no-one got sick. I’m assuming she had the mushrooms available then but decided not to use them for this lunch.
What made her use them on the 29th of July? Was it Simon’s cancellation the day before that triggered anger in her. Did she feel like she was losing control? Did she feel that he didn’t even respect her enough to come to a lunch to discuss her “medical treatment”, after all she had done for him and his family? Did she realise that this family unit that she still wanted to be part of, could never really be? Was using the deadly mushrooms a decision fueled by last minute anger or feeling hard done by, which may explain the little afterthought she gave to what happens after the lunch.
It just doesn’t make sense to me how an intelligent woman can plan something like this for weeks, but not think to even dispose of the dehydrator.
It also makes me wonder whether the purpose of the lunch was actually different to start with. We heard how she was feeling forgotten about with the birthday and wasn’t attending as many events anymore. Maybe the cancer lie was just a ploy to get close to these people again. But with Simon pulling out last minute, that probably was a slap in the face, and also a reminder that she’s not ‘part’ of his lovely little family unit anymore, and that may have fueled a revengeful part of her
IMO
So we can fairly assume that EP has had these mushrooms for several months. I think it was recorded that she visited Loch in April and bought a dehydrator then too. Based on how long these mushrooms can last in the fridge, she would have dehydrated them at end of April or in early May.
We just found out that EP had Gail, Don and (I think) Simon over approx a month before the deadly lunch where they had pie and no-one got sick. I’m assuming she had the mushrooms available then but decided not to use them for this lunch.
What made her use them on the 29th of July? Was it Simon’s cancellation the day before that triggered anger in her. Did she feel like she was losing control? Did she feel that he didn’t even respect her enough to come to a lunch to discuss her “medical treatment”, after all she had done for him and his family? Did she realise that this family unit that she still wanted to be part of, could never really be? Was using the deadly mushrooms a decision fueled by last minute anger or feeling hard done by, which may explain the little afterthought she gave to what happens after the lunch.
It just doesn’t make sense to me how an intelligent woman can plan something like this for weeks, but not think to even dispose of the dehydrator.
It also makes me wonder whether the purpose of the lunch was actually different to start with. We heard how she was feeling forgotten about with the birthday and wasn’t attending as many events anymore. Maybe the cancer lie was just a ploy to get close to these people again. But with Simon pulling out last minute, that probably was a slap in the face, and also a reminder that she’s not ‘part’ of his lovely little family unit anymore, and that may have fueled a revengeful part of her
IMO
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Re: the dehydrator. I think she thought she'd never be suspected, tbh
She allegedly tried to poison Simon in the past, and nobody suspected her at the time and given those charges were dropped she clearly didn't leave sufficient traces to ever be convicted of that. She probably thought she'd get away with it again, I guess?
She's intelligent academically, it would seem (you certainly can't qualify as an air traffic controller without a level of academic ability), but plenty of intelligent and educated people overestimate their ability to outsmart detectives. Happens all the time, imo
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It’s interesting that nobody so far really has anything bad to say about her as a person.
You’d expect the knowledge of what she (likely) did would colour their recollections and influence them to share any times when she displayed character flaws like rage, resentment, cruelty etc. Yet nobody has reported anything like this.
It really does sound like she came across as a nice, ordinary person before this event.
You’d expect the knowledge of what she (likely) did would colour their recollections and influence them to share any times when she displayed character flaws like rage, resentment, cruelty etc. Yet nobody has reported anything like this.
It really does sound like she came across as a nice, ordinary person before this event.
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I don't think her messages to her FB friends were so nice. Talking about the locals as (blankety blank) illiterates. Or pulling the wool over her husband's eyes about cleaning the house - while she was not working.
And I don't know if she actually has any other friends, other than her online previous friends.
I also think that there were negative reviews about her work when she was an air traffic controller. Got in late, left early. IIRC (I would have to go back in the threads to see exactly what they were). So she abruptly quit one day.
imo
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The defence continues examining the trail Erin Patterson left through the health system after the lunch.
Mr Mandy asks if he had to tell any other hospital staff about the situation regarding the poisoning victims.
"I didnt need to tell anybody, I have a loud voice and everyone was aware," Dr Webster says.
Dr Webster tells the court about a conversation he had with a Mirboo North police officer, after Erin Patterson had returned to hospital.
The police had travelled to Erin's Leongatha home to look for her, after she had discharged herself from hospital against doctor's advice.
He says he told the police that Erin had returned to hospital, and they no longer needed to look for her.
Then his mind turned to the leftovers from the lunch.
"It occured to me, they're at [Erin's house], they can get some leftovers for me," Dr Webster says.
"Then I realised I better ask the homeowner if its okay for the police to go in.
www.abc.net.au
Mr Mandy asks if he had to tell any other hospital staff about the situation regarding the poisoning victims.
"I didnt need to tell anybody, I have a loud voice and everyone was aware," Dr Webster says.
Dr Webster tells the court about a conversation he had with a Mirboo North police officer, after Erin Patterson had returned to hospital.
The police had travelled to Erin's Leongatha home to look for her, after she had discharged herself from hospital against doctor's advice.
He says he told the police that Erin had returned to hospital, and they no longer needed to look for her.
Then his mind turned to the leftovers from the lunch.
"It occured to me, they're at [Erin's house], they can get some leftovers for me," Dr Webster says.
"Then I realised I better ask the homeowner if its okay for the police to go in.
Court sees footage of Erin Patterson leaving hospital against medical advice — as it happened
A Supreme Court murder trial hears Erin Patterson was initially "reluctant" to have her children brought to hospital for medical checks after they allegedly ate leftovers from a lunch contaminated with death cap mushrooms. Look back on how the day's hearing unfolded in our blog.
www.abc.net.au
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Dr Foote says she became aware that Erin Patterson had presented to hospital ....
She says a nurse asked Erin to come into a cubicle to be assessed, but Erin refused.
A nurse asked Dr Foote to come and speak to Erin over her refusal to be assessed ....
Dr Foote says Erin told her she could not stay and needed to do things at home, but promised to return ....
CCTV footage of Dr Foote and Erin Patterson from the front of the hospital is shown to the court.
www.abc.net.au
She says a nurse asked Erin to come into a cubicle to be assessed, but Erin refused.
A nurse asked Dr Foote to come and speak to Erin over her refusal to be assessed ....
Dr Foote says Erin told her she could not stay and needed to do things at home, but promised to return ....
CCTV footage of Dr Foote and Erin Patterson from the front of the hospital is shown to the court.
Court sees footage of Erin Patterson leaving hospital against medical advice — as it happened
A Supreme Court murder trial hears Erin Patterson was initially "reluctant" to have her children brought to hospital for medical checks after they allegedly ate leftovers from a lunch contaminated with death cap mushrooms. Look back on how the day's hearing unfolded in our blog.
www.abc.net.au
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Ms Patterson, who is in a red jumper, beige trousers, backpack and sandals and a surgical mask, makes her way to the exit but is intercepted by Dr Foote.
Dr Foote stands in the way of the exit, before Ms Patterson hits a button next to the door to open it. A third nurse comes into frame to join the conversation.
Eventually, a form is brought over for Ms Patterson to sign — a discharge against medical advice document.
After Ms Patterson signs the document, she heads out the door. The whole incident unfolds over about two minutes.
www.abc.net.au
Dr Foote stands in the way of the exit, before Ms Patterson hits a button next to the door to open it. A third nurse comes into frame to join the conversation.
Eventually, a form is brought over for Ms Patterson to sign — a discharge against medical advice document.
After Ms Patterson signs the document, she heads out the door. The whole incident unfolds over about two minutes.
Court sees footage of Erin Patterson leaving hospital against medical advice — as it happened
A Supreme Court murder trial hears Erin Patterson was initially "reluctant" to have her children brought to hospital for medical checks after they allegedly ate leftovers from a lunch contaminated with death cap mushrooms. Look back on how the day's hearing unfolded in our blog.
www.abc.net.au
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Under cross-examination by defence barrister Colin Mandy, SC, Dr Chris Webster said he was feeling concerned about the mushrooms in the beef Wellington meal when Erin Patterson presented to the Leongatha urgent care centre on July 31, 2023.
He said Erin gave a short response when he asked her about the source of the mushrooms.
“Single word answer: Woolworths,” Webster told the jury.
......................
Asked by Supreme Court Justice Christopher Beale if Erin had said earlier in the conversation which bin the leftovers were in, Webster said she did not specify.
“When she said that they would find them in the bin I assumed that they would be in existence,” he said.
www.theage.com.au
He said Erin gave a short response when he asked her about the source of the mushrooms.
“Single word answer: Woolworths,” Webster told the jury.
......................
Asked by Supreme Court Justice Christopher Beale if Erin had said earlier in the conversation which bin the leftovers were in, Webster said she did not specify.
“When she said that they would find them in the bin I assumed that they would be in existence,” he said.
Doctor’s death cap poisoning warning played to jury after son, daughters of guests at fatal beef Wellington lunch testify: Trial day seven, as it happened
Erin Patterson has pleaded not guilty to murdering three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington laced with death cap mushrooms. Follow our live coverage of the triple-murder trial here.
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Woolworths, Safeway, Asian grocer???? Don't think we have heard Safeway before.
Dr Foote tells the court Erin Patterson did not return within 30 minutes as she had indicated.
Dr Foote says Ms Patterson claimed to have bought mushrooms separately at a Safeway and an Asian grocer in April.
www.abc.net.au
Dr Foote tells the court Erin Patterson did not return within 30 minutes as she had indicated.
Dr Foote says Ms Patterson claimed to have bought mushrooms separately at a Safeway and an Asian grocer in April.
Court sees footage of Erin Patterson leaving hospital against medical advice — as it happened
A Supreme Court murder trial hears Erin Patterson was initially "reluctant" to have her children brought to hospital for medical checks after they allegedly ate leftovers from a lunch contaminated with death cap mushrooms. Look back on how the day's hearing unfolded in our blog.
www.abc.net.au
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Safeway is Woolies, but I think the name is used interchangeably.Woolworths, Safeway, Asian grocer???? Don't think we have heard Safeway before.
Dr Foote tells the court Erin Patterson did not return within 30 minutes as she had indicated.
Dr Foote says Ms Patterson claimed to have bought mushrooms separately at a Safeway and an Asian grocer in April.
Court sees footage of Erin Patterson leaving hospital against medical advice — as it happened
A Supreme Court murder trial hears Erin Patterson was initially "reluctant" to have her children brought to hospital for medical checks after they allegedly ate leftovers from a lunch contaminated with death cap mushrooms. Look back on how the day's hearing unfolded in our blog.
"Safeway was the trading name of Woolworths for most of their Victorian stores until 2017"
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Dr Foote says although Erin Patterson reported diarrhoea, she did not see any evidence of it personally.
Dr Foote says the leftovers of the beef Wellington lunch were eventually brought to her in a paper bag.
She then transferred the samples into two pathology bags.
The court is shown CCTV footage of Dr Foote handling the leftover beef Wellington ...
Dr Foote, wearing gloves, can be seen pulling a dark-coloured substance out of a brown Woolworths paper bag, presumably the filling of the beef Wellington.
Then she retrieves a larger piece, the outer pastry of a beef Wellington.
www.abc.net.au
Dr Foote says the leftovers of the beef Wellington lunch were eventually brought to her in a paper bag.
She then transferred the samples into two pathology bags.
The court is shown CCTV footage of Dr Foote handling the leftover beef Wellington ...
Dr Foote, wearing gloves, can be seen pulling a dark-coloured substance out of a brown Woolworths paper bag, presumably the filling of the beef Wellington.
Then she retrieves a larger piece, the outer pastry of a beef Wellington.
Court sees footage of Erin Patterson leaving hospital against medical advice — as it happened
A Supreme Court murder trial hears Erin Patterson was initially "reluctant" to have her children brought to hospital for medical checks after they allegedly ate leftovers from a lunch contaminated with death cap mushrooms. Look back on how the day's hearing unfolded in our blog.
www.abc.net.au
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Mr Mandy begins his cross-examination of Dr Foote ....
He raises to Dr Foote that as part of her treatment, it was likely Erin would need to be cannulated — having a tube put into her veins.
Simon Patterson, Erin's estranged husband, previously told the court during his testimony about Erin's dislike of hospitals due to prior experiences.
www.abc.net.au
He raises to Dr Foote that as part of her treatment, it was likely Erin would need to be cannulated — having a tube put into her veins.
Simon Patterson, Erin's estranged husband, previously told the court during his testimony about Erin's dislike of hospitals due to prior experiences.
Court sees footage of Erin Patterson leaving hospital against medical advice — as it happened
A Supreme Court murder trial hears Erin Patterson was initially "reluctant" to have her children brought to hospital for medical checks after they allegedly ate leftovers from a lunch contaminated with death cap mushrooms. Look back on how the day's hearing unfolded in our blog.
www.abc.net.au
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That's it for today.
There is a miscommunication, requiring Mr Mandy to re-ask some questions, and Justice Beale opts to end the proceedings for the day.
Dr Foote will return to finish her testimony tomorrow.
www.abc.net.au
There is a miscommunication, requiring Mr Mandy to re-ask some questions, and Justice Beale opts to end the proceedings for the day.
Dr Foote will return to finish her testimony tomorrow.
Court adjourns
Court sees footage of Erin Patterson leaving hospital against medical advice — as it happened
A Supreme Court murder trial hears Erin Patterson was initially "reluctant" to have her children brought to hospital for medical checks after they allegedly ate leftovers from a lunch contaminated with death cap mushrooms. Look back on how the day's hearing unfolded in our blog.
www.abc.net.au
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There is a bunch of other stuff in that link ^^^ about how Erin's heart rate was up when they first did get to take her readings, but then it dropped to normal range once she had settled down. Basically, they found nothing wrong with her except she was a bit dehydrated.
But for anyone who wants to know more, it's in the link.
But for anyone who wants to know more, it's in the link.
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Here was another opportunity for Erin to tell them she foraged for mushrooms ... and nobody had died yet. It was July 31, 2023. Gail and Heather died on August 4th. Don died on August 5th.
About 10.45am, Foote said she spoke to a toxicology registrar at the Austin Hospital ... She said the registrar called back about 10 minutes later and was put on the phone to Erin to ask her about the mushrooms.
www.theage.com.au
About 10.45am, Foote said she spoke to a toxicology registrar at the Austin Hospital ... She said the registrar called back about 10 minutes later and was put on the phone to Erin to ask her about the mushrooms.
Doctor’s death cap poisoning warning played to jury after son, daughters of guests at fatal beef Wellington lunch testify: Trial day seven, as it happened
Erin Patterson has pleaded not guilty to murdering three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington laced with death cap mushrooms. Follow our live coverage of the triple-murder trial here.
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This is interesting to me, that EP and her sister-in-law went through pregnancy together, and were close friends 18 years ago, part of bible study group then and they spent time with EP's mother on the coast together.
So that helps me better understand those real estate loans. Anna-Marie ,at least, was a good long time friend before Simon and Erin married. So there is a history of friendship as a backdrop.
That also explains Erin's tears, imo.
Doctor’s death cap poisoning warning played to jury after son, daughters of guests at fatal beef Wellington lunch testify: Trial day seven, as it happened
Erin Patterson has pleaded not guilty to murdering three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington laced with death cap mushrooms. Follow our live coverage of the triple-murder trial here.
Yeah, I tend to think she most probably dehydrated the mushrooms immediately since she bought the dehydrator the same day as collecting them (allegedly).
As for what prompted EP to use the mushrooms on July 29 and the theory that Simon's refusal to attend might have triggered the event (like a payback), I'd certainly considered this possibility. But it's important to remember the supposed reason for the luncheon was a pretend cancer diagnosis, and Simon only cancelled at the last minute.
That makes me think that the poisoning was planned out earlier and that Simon was supposed to be included.
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