Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #9 *Arrest*

[MsMarple]

It also doesn't explain why, if she believed them to be safe mushrooms, why she didn't proudly tell her guests about them. 'Hey guys, I'm serving you some amazing mushrooms foraged from our local forest. Yum. '

Yeah and instead Erin served up mushrooms that “smelled funny” that she picked and dehydrated months earlier. Yummy.

 

[drsleuth]

2m ago11.46 AEST
Dr Thomas May says when identifying posts on iNaturalist he is not doing so with the same rigour he applies in other contexts.

Stafford continues to show May photos of mushrooms from the iNaturalist website.

He is shown a photo of what is labelled the shaggy parasol mushroom.

May confirm the shaggy parasol mushroom is toxic through his work at the Victorian Poisons Information Centre.

He is also shown a photo of a buttery collybia mushroom. May says it does not grow in Victoria despite a post on iNaturalist reporting it in the state.

Dr May confirms that the genus armillaria – or honey mushroom – grows in Gippsland.

He says that the Victorian variant of these mushrooms is bitter and is not likely to be eaten.

1m ago11.48 AEST
The court is taking a 15 minute break and returning at midday.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 11 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[MsMarple]

Court breaks​

By Judd Boaz​

After another debate about mushrooms, following an identical line of questioning, our 45-minute journey into the world of mycology is paused.

Justice Beale calls for a break.

 

[drsleuth]

Seems everyone is sick of hearing about mushrooms

 

[katydid23]

I bet the jury is bored out of their minds by now.

 

[Detechtive]

I can imagine Erin may want to get up and defend herself, but her defence team may strongly recommend that she does not.

I don’t think her public statements about the case have gone very well thus far, nor have they done her any favours. IMO

When she gave that false statement letter to the media, I saw she was trying to manipulate social perceptions of how people saw her. She was also playing the victim "being painted as an evil witch", when most people would be absolutely devastated for the people they "accidentally" killed.

I think therefore, there is a higher than normal chance she will take the stand.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

One thing I keep thinking. Let's say EP didn't know the mushrooms were death caps as she states and it is all a terrible accident. Can it still be considered manslaughter, when she refused admit she foraged the mushrooms? And give the health professionals earlier help in treating the ill.

 

[drsleuth]

I bet the jury is bored out of their minds by now.

If it was me , I'd be struggling.

 

[MsMarple]

Back from break​

By Judd Boaz​

The jury is led back into the courtroom as we return from the break.

Dr Tom May is still in the witness box, and Sophie Stafford continues her questioning.
——-
Groan.

 

[Detechtive]

One thing I keep thinking. Let's say EP didn't know the mushrooms were death caps as she states and it is all a terrible accident. Can it still be considered manslaughter, when she refused admit she foraged the mushrooms? And give the health professionals earlier help in treating the ill.

It could fall under Manslaughter by Criminal Negligence
If a person causes death through a significant failure to exercise reasonable care, they may be charged with manslaughter by criminal negligence. This applies when the conduct falls so far below the standard of care that it warrants criminal punishment. In Victoria, manslaughter is addressed under the Crimes Act 1958 (Vic).

or Manslaughter
If the obstruction of justice results in a person's death, and the conduct was reckless or criminally negligent, the individual may face manslaughter charges.

Or Causing Serious Injury Recklessly (Section 17)
If the individual foresaw the probability of serious injury resulting from their actions but proceeded regardless, they could be charged under Section 17 of the Crimes Act 1958. This offence carries a maximum penalty of 15 years' imprisonment.

Or Causing Injury Recklessly (Section 18)
If the person was aware of the risk of injury but still acted, leading to harm, they might face charges under Section 18. This offence has a maximum penalty of 5 years' imprisonment.

Under Section 421 of the Crimes Act 1958 (Vic), if a person is tried for murder and found not guilty, the jury may still find them guilty of manslaughter:

“On an indictment for murder a person found not guilty of murder may be found guilty of manslaughter.” CRIMES ACT 1958 - SECT 421 Alternative verdicts on charge of murder

The OPP would have had to have seen some pretty solid evidence to take the higher charge, IMO.

 

[Detechtive]

If it was me , I'd be struggling.

I am struggling with the mushroom cross-examination and i'm not even there. Boring.

 

[MsMarple]

Defence re-iterates death cap similarities​

By Judd Boaz​

Ms Stafford says she has finished her exercise with mushrooms.

She again asks Dr May if there are a range of edible mushrooms that share physical similarities like colour with death cap mushrooms.

He says this is correct.

"Are you aware of any mushrooms in the amanita genus growing in Australia that are non-toxic?" Ms Stafford asks.

"In terms of native species of amanita, I don't believe we have information that confirms they are edible," Dr May says.

"Possible but don't know?"

"Just don't know."

 

[drsleuth]

Expert details mushroom differences​

Ms Stafford is now showing Dr May photos of mushrooms on citizen science website iNaturalist, including a death cap mushroom look-alike, a stubble rosegill.
He told the court he has identified more than 30,000 photos of mushrooms on iNaturalist, but it is not his practice to do so without seeing the underside of the mushroom.
The court heard some of the photos shown to Dr May were of “research grade”, meaning several people had verified the identification of the mushroom.
Ms Stafford showed Dr May a photo of a purported buttery collybia mushroom observed in Melbourne’s east and posted to iNaturalist.
She asked him whether it shares similar characteristics to a death cap mushroom.
He agreed it has a smooth, brownish cap and white gills like a death cap, but he said the stems differed.


The buttery collybia image shown to Dr May. Picture: iNaturalist

 

[MsMarple]

Defence cites other poisoning incidents​

By Judd Boaz​

Ms Stafford raises an incident from May 2023 of a Chinese tourist reportedly eating a death cap mushroom and falling ill.

After eating a mushroom found near an oak tree, they experienced organ failure and were hospitalised, recovering a week later.

A separate death cap poisoning incident in April 2024 is raised by the defence, and Dr May says he is aware of the case as made public by the Coroner.

Ms Stafford says the Coroner's report states the deceased person had picked a mushroom in their front yard and later used them in a dish consumed by herself and her son.

 

[drsleuth]

I am struggling with the mushroom cross-examination and i'm not even there. Boring.

I understand why it's important for the defense, but fear she has probably lost the jury on this one IMO

 

[katydid23]

I guess they are going for two things:

---It's hard to differentiate between safe or unsafe mushrooms.

---Accidental poisonings do happen.

Both valid points in general. But neither seem to fit this specific set of circumstances. IMO

 

[drsleuth]

now03.19 BST
Lawyer Sophie Stafford asks Dr Thomas May about incidents involving death cap mushroom poisoning.

She points to a poisoning that was a subject of a Victorian coroner’s report from May 2024.

Stafford says a deceased woman had picked mushrooms from her front garden in April 2024. She later used them in a dish she and her son consumed.

The deceased found more mushrooms in her garden the following month. She prepared the same dish with the mushrooms, the court hears.

Early the next day, the woman’s son heard her getting up to use the bathroom. He then checked on his mother who said she had been vomiting. Her son began to feel unwell the same day.

The woman died from death cap mushroom poisoning while her son recovered, the court hears.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 11 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[MsMarple]

Department of Health contacted mushroom expert after death cap poisoning​

By Judd Boaz​

The defence guides Dr May through the coronial report on the April, 2024 poisoning case, stating the facts of the case and making him confirm after each fact.

"That is what is written here," he says repeatedly.

He says he cannot confirm any facts outside of the report.

The report made several recommendations, and Dr May says he was contacted by the Department of Health about responding to those recommendations.

One of the recommendations was an increase in public health advice around mushroom foraging.

 

[Detechtive]

now03.19 BST
Lawyer Sophie Stafford asks Dr Thomas May about incidents involving death cap mushroom poisoning.

She points to a poisoning that was a subject of a Victorian coroner’s report from May 2024.

Stafford says a deceased woman had picked mushrooms from her front garden in April 2024. She later used them in a dish she and her son consumed.

The deceased found more mushrooms in her garden the following month. She prepared the same dish with the mushrooms, the court hears.

Early the next day, the woman’s son heard her getting up to use the bathroom. He then checked on his mother who said she had been vomiting. Her son began to feel unwell the same day.

The woman died from death cap mushroom poisoning while her son recovered, the court hears.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 11 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

They really don't have much to work with, do they... because they are playing into the prosecutions hand with these examples.

Again, another scenario where everyone who ate them died or became unwell. Unlike Erin. IMO

 

[drsleuth]

now03.19 BST
Lawyer Sophie Stafford asks Dr Thomas May about incidents involving death cap mushroom poisoning.

She points to a poisoning that was a subject of a Victorian coroner’s report from May 2024.

Stafford says a deceased woman had picked mushrooms from her front garden in April 2024. She later used them in a dish she and her son consumed.

The deceased found more mushrooms in her garden the following month. She prepared the same dish with the mushrooms, the court hears.

Early the next day, the woman’s son heard her getting up to use the bathroom. He then checked on his mother who said she had been vomiting. Her son began to feel unwell the same day.

The woman died from death cap mushroom poisoning while her son recovered, the court hears.

Erin Patterson murder trial day 11 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

I linked this case back in the threads last week

Coroner warns of dangers of consuming wild mushrooms

Wednesday 30 October

www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.au

https://coronerscourt.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2024-10/COR%202024%20002832%20Form%2038%20-%20Finding%20into%20Death%20without%20Inquest.pdf