Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #9 *Arrest*

[drsleuth]

2m ago

Defence recaps mushroom experts testimony​

By Judd Boaz​

Ms Stafford recounts many of the points covered by the prosecution in their initial questioning, namely:

• Death cap mushrooms are found all over Victoria, but are only regularly monitored for in the Royal Botanic Gardens
• Observations are more common in Melbourne than regional areas due to the relative population
• There were three observations of death cap mushrooms in Gippsland near Loch, Outtrim and Morwell

Mushroom expert quizzed on death cap identification in Erin Patterson trial — as it happened

An internationally recognised fungi expert has given evidence in the trial of Erin Patterson, who is accused of murdering three relatives with a poisoned beef Wellington meal. Look back at how the day unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Deleted member 363451]

2m ago

Defence recaps mushroom experts testimony​

​

By Judd Boaz​

Ms Stafford recounts many of the points covered by the prosecution in their initial questioning, namely:

• Death cap mushrooms are found all over Victoria, but are only regularly monitored for in the Royal Botanic Gardens
• Observations are more common in Melbourne than regional areas due to the relative population
• There were three observations of death cap mushrooms in Gippsland near Loch, Outtrim and Morwell

Mushroom expert quizzed on death cap identification in Erin Patterson trial — as it happened

An internationally recognised fungi expert has given evidence in the trial of Erin Patterson, who is accused of murdering three relatives with a poisoned beef Wellington meal. Look back at how the day unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

Erin will have to find a new hobby if she is jailed. Knitting perhaps?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Do you have a reference were it states she actually foraged for death caps?

"A defence lawyer representing accused triple-murderer Erin Patterson has told a jury she lied about a cancer diagnosis and foraging mushrooms, but is innocent of murdering three relatives with a poisoned meal."

'Panicked' Erin Patterson lied to police but is innocent of triple murder, court hears

Defence lawyers for accused triple-murderer Erin Patterson tell a jury she lied about a cancer diagnosis and foraging mushrooms, but is innocent of murdering three relatives with a poisoned meal.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

3m ago06.53 BST
Lawyer Sophie Stafford asks Dr Thomas May if there are no simple rules to distinguish toxic mushrooms from edible mushrooms in the wild.

“Yes,” he says.

He says it is generally only after consumption that it can be determined if a mushroom is toxic.

May agrees that the amanita species contains toxic and edible mushrooms.

Erin Patterson murder trial live: fungi expert says death cap mushrooms have been mistaken for edible ones in past

Patterson, 50, faces three charges of murder and one charge of attempted murder relating to a beef wellington lunch she served at her house in Leongatha. Follow live updates

www.theguardian.com

 

[drsleuth]

7m ago

Expert asked about wild mushroom foraging​

By Judd Boaz​

Ms Stafford asks about a book published by Dr May about mushrooms.

He says the aims were to provide authoritative advice for people foraging for edible mushrooms.

Ms Stafford asks Dr May if there are any simple rules for identifying edible mushrooms, and he says there are not.

He says it is possible to analyse mushrooms for known toxins, but a lack of widescale testing means the most common way of determining how poisonous a mushroom is, is by observing symptoms after consumption.

Key Event
7m ago

Defence asks about 'mistaken identity' poisonings​

By Judd Boaz​

Ms Stafford asks about "mistaken identity", when a poisonous mushroom is mistaken for an edible one.

Dr May confirms this is the most common form of poisoning.

Ms Stafford suggests that a lack of information about mushrooms could also lead to poisoning.

She asks whether different species can grow together, and Dr May confirms both toxic and non-toxic mushrooms can grow alongside each other.

Mushroom expert quizzed on death cap identification in Erin Patterson trial — as it happened

An internationally recognised fungi expert has given evidence in the trial of Erin Patterson, who is accused of murdering three relatives with a poisoned beef Wellington meal. Look back at how the day unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

Key Event
1m ago

Mushroom foraging on the rise, defence tells court​

By Judd Boaz​

The defence raises a study conducted by Dr May about the accuracy of apps being used to identify poisonous mushrooms.

Dr May says some apps used AI technology to identify the mushrooms, and there was concern about the apps misidentifying Australian species.

Ms Stafford cites an increase of mushroom poisoning reports in Victoria due to an increase in foraging.

Dr May says in general, the increase in foraging appeared to the be the case, and the amount of calls did seem to be rising, but so too was the population of Melbourne.

"Do you agree that identification of mushrooms is difficult even for expert mycologists and botanists?" Ms Stafford asks.

"Yes," Dr May says.

She asks whether it may be difficult to compare a live mushroom in the wild to an image of a mushroom in a textbook, and Dr May agrees it is challenging.

Mushroom expert quizzed on death cap identification in Erin Patterson trial — as it happened

An internationally recognised fungi expert has given evidence in the trial of Erin Patterson, who is accused of murdering three relatives with a poisoned beef Wellington meal. Look back at how the day unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

9m ago15.53 AEST
No simple rules to distinguish toxic from edible mushrooms, expert agrees

Lawyer Sophie Stafford asks Dr Thomas May if there are no simple rules to distinguish toxic mushrooms from edible mushrooms in the wild.

“Yes,” he says.

He says it is generally only after consumption that it can be determined if a mushroom is toxic.

May agrees that the Amanita species contains toxic and edible mushrooms.

Erin Patterson murder trial live: fungi expert says death cap mushrooms have been mistaken for edible ones in past

Patterson, 50, faces three charges of murder and one charge of attempted murder relating to a beef wellington lunch she served at her house in Leongatha. Follow live updates

www.theguardian.com

 

[drsleuth]

1m ago

More on the mushroom identification study​

By Judd Boaz​

Dr May confirms that the team found that phone apps had a "poor" performance in identifying mushrooms.

Ms Stafford suggests to Dr May that the apps may not be able to correctly identify death cap mushrooms, and he agrees.

She then raises another paper written for a fungi newsletter by Dr May, this one about foraging.

It details a forager who believed they had collected pine mushrooms, but had in fact picked toxic mushrooms.

The defence once again raises the term "mistaken identity" when talking about the case study.

Mushroom expert quizzed on death cap identification in Erin Patterson trial — as it happened

An internationally recognised fungi expert has given evidence in the trial of Erin Patterson, who is accused of murdering three relatives with a poisoned beef Wellington meal. Look back at how the day unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Deleted member 363451]

7m ago

Expert asked about wild mushroom foraging​

​

By Judd Boaz​

Ms Stafford asks about a book published by Dr May about mushrooms.

He says the aims were to provide authoritative advice for people foraging for edible mushrooms.

Ms Stafford asks Dr May if there are any simple rules for identifying edible mushrooms, and he says there are not.

He says it is possible to analyse mushrooms for known toxins, but a lack of widescale testing means the most common way of determining how poisonous a mushroom is, is by observing symptoms after consumption.

Key Event
7m ago

Defence asks about 'mistaken identity' poisonings​

​

By Judd Boaz​

Ms Stafford asks about "mistaken identity", when a poisonous mushroom is mistaken for an edible one.

Dr May confirms this is the most common form of poisoning.

Ms Stafford suggests that a lack of information about mushrooms could also lead to poisoning.

She asks whether different species can grow together, and Dr May confirms both toxic and non-toxic mushrooms can grow alongside each other.

Mushroom expert quizzed on death cap identification in Erin Patterson trial — as it happened

An internationally recognised fungi expert has given evidence in the trial of Erin Patterson, who is accused of murdering three relatives with a poisoned beef Wellington meal. Look back at how the day unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

Key Event
1m ago

Mushroom foraging on the rise, defence tells court​

​

By Judd Boaz​

The defence raises a study conducted by Dr May about the accuracy of apps being used to identify poisonous mushrooms.

Dr May says some apps used AI technology to identify the mushrooms, and there was concern about the apps misidentifying Australian species.

Ms Stafford cites an increase of mushroom poisoning reports in Victoria due to an increase in foraging.

Dr May says in general, the increase in foraging appeared to the be the case, and the amount of calls did seem to be rising, but so too was the population of Melbourne.


She asks whether it may be difficult to compare a live mushroom in the wild to an image of a mushroom in a textbook, and Dr May agrees it is challenging.

Mushroom expert quizzed on death cap identification in Erin Patterson trial — as it happened

An internationally recognised fungi expert has given evidence in the trial of Erin Patterson, who is accused of murdering three relatives with a poisoned beef Wellington meal. Look back at how the day unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

Her defence are going to say that she was foraging for edible mushrooms and mistakenly picked the Death Caps. She had been foraging for years and was in a FB foraging group, so I'm sure that she'd know the difference, Then we have the further damning evidence. I have a terrible feeling that she is going to get off. I hope that I'm wrong...

 

[drsleuth]

3 minutes ago

'Challenging' to tell safe from poisonous mushrooms: Expert​

The court heard there has been a “rising interest” in mushroom foraging, which Dr May said could be associated with the pandemic.
“There seemed to be an increase in people foraging from that time,” he said.
Dr May agreed there had also been a rise in the number of calls to the Victorian Poisons Information Centre in relation to foraged mushrooms.
He told the court that different species of mushrooms could grow close together and that toxic mushrooms can grow alongside non-toxic mushrooms.
When asked by Ms Stafford whether the identification of mushrooms is “fraught with challenges”, Dr May replied: “It is challenging.”
He agreed that the identification of mushrooms was difficult, especially since a mushroom can change in appearance over its life cycle.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/trial-for-accused-mushroom-cook-killer-erin-patterson-resumes/live-coverage/6fd8204a5e2d7dbf4934b94634421ed7?amp#scroll-to-31573695

 

[drsleuth]

now07.07 BST

Foraging became may have become more popular during Covid-19 pandemic, mushroom expert says​

Lawyer Sophie Stafford asks Dr Thomas May about “mistaken” identity in the context of mushroom poisoning.

He says “mistaken identity” is when a person thinks they are collecting one thing but it can instead be toxic. He says this is the most common form of poisoning.

May says there is a “rising interest” in mushroom foraging in Victoria that may be associated with the pandemic.

He says the Victorian Poisons Information Centre recorded an increase in calls during the Covid-19 period.

But he says it was also a “rather wet” and it is hard to disentangle these two factors.

Erin Patterson murder trial live: fungi expert says death cap mushrooms have been mistaken for edible ones in past

Patterson, 50, faces three charges of murder and one charge of attempted murder relating to a beef wellington lunch she served at her house in Leongatha. Follow live updates

www.theguardian.com

 

[drsleuth]

Her defence are going to say that she was foraging for edible mushrooms and mistakenly picked the Death Caps. She had been foraging for years and was in a FB foraging group, so I'm sure that she'd know the difference, Then we have the further damning evidence. I have a terrible feeling that she is going to get off. I hope that I'm wrong...

I think it's too early to say, we haven't even heard the police case yet..............

 

[Deleted member 363451]

3 minutes ago

'Challenging' to tell safe from poisonous mushrooms: Expert​

The court heard there has been a “rising interest” in mushroom foraging, which Dr May said could be associated with the pandemic.
“There seemed to be an increase in people foraging from that time,” he said.
Dr May agreed there had also been a rise in the number of calls to the Victorian Poisons Information Centre in relation to foraged mushrooms.
He told the court that different species of mushrooms could grow close together and that toxic mushrooms can grow alongside non-toxic mushrooms.
When asked by Ms Stafford whether the identification of mushrooms is “fraught with challenges”, Dr May replied: “It is challenging.”
He agreed that the identification of mushrooms was difficult, especially since a mushroom can change in appearance over its life cycle.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/trial-for-accused-mushroom-cook-killer-erin-patterson-resumes/live-coverage/6fd8204a5e2d7dbf4934b94634421ed7?amp#scroll-to-31573695

I wonder if the public interest in mushroom foraging has diminished since Erin Patterson was arrested?

 

[Eloise]

Do you have a reference were it states she actually foraged for death caps?

Its not in contention that she gathered mushrooms. Only that she didn't realise they were death caps (and then somehow managed to only get the death caps into the food of the other four folks at lunch. And didn't manage to get any in the leftovers she fed her kids, and seemed confident of that.)

Mushroom trial: Erin Patterson admits foraging mushrooms but lawyers say deaths were accident

Erin Patterson admits foraging mushrooms, but did not deliberately seek out death cap mushrooms, jury told.

www.rnz.co.nz

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I think it's too early to say, we haven't even heard the police case yet..............

True. I'll try to stay optimistic that she is found guilty.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Its not in contention that she gathered mushrooms. Only that she didn't realise they were death caps (and then somehow managed to only get the death caps into the food of the other four folks at lunch. And didn't manage to get any in the leftovers she fed her kids, and seemed confident of that.)

Mushroom trial: Erin Patterson admits foraging mushrooms but lawyers say deaths were accident

Erin Patterson admits foraging mushrooms, but did not deliberately seek out death cap mushrooms, jury told.

www.rnz.co.nz

Yes, miraculously, she didn't ingest any of the poisonous mushrooms herself, even though she feigned some symptoms.

 

[Eloise]

Right. AFAIK in most accidental mushroom poisonings I've read about, everyone involved gets poisoned, especially the cook of the meal! And nobody has tried to faff around with covering things up out of embarrassment or whatever!

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Right. AFAIK in most accidental mushroom poisonings I've read about, everyone involved gets poisoned, especially the cook of the meal! And nobody has tried to faff around with covering things up out of embarrassment or whatever!

You would only hide the food dehydrator if you were guilty of a premeditated crime.

 

[drsleuth]

3m ago

Expert says public should do a mushroom apprenticeship before foraging​

By Judd Boaz​

Dr May confirms to Ms Stafford that this has happened multiple times, with people bringing mushrooms to him for analysis that are, in fact, toxic.

He says while initially in his career, he told people to not forage at all, he now tells people to educate themselves and undertake an "apprenticeship" in identification.

Asked if it would take "years and years" to become accurate in mushroom identification, Dr May agrees it could take "a considerable" amount of time.

Ms Stafford then turns the court's attention to the non-toxic stubble rosegill, and begins pointing out characteristics that are similar to the death cap mushroom.

Dr May says in general, the gills of the stubble rosegill can appear pale from underneath.

He says he has not heard of any poisoning cases regarding the stubble rosegill.

Mushroom expert quizzed on death cap identification in Erin Patterson trial — as it happened

An internationally recognised fungi expert has given evidence in the trial of Erin Patterson, who is accused of murdering three relatives with a poisoned beef Wellington meal. Look back at how the day unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

4m ago

Court adjourns​

By Judd Boaz​

Ms Stafford says this is "the beginning of an exercise", and with more testimony expected from Dr May, Justice Beale takes the opportunity to break for the day.

We'll hear more from mycologist Tom May tomorrow, with the defence continuing its questioning over the characteristics of mushrooms, toxic or otherwise.

Mushroom expert quizzed on death cap identification in Erin Patterson trial — as it happened

An internationally recognised fungi expert has given evidence in the trial of Erin Patterson, who is accused of murdering three relatives with a poisoned beef Wellington meal. Look back at how the day unfolded in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au