Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #9 *Arrest*

[L_B]

Ahh so this is what I wondered yesterday, so they did examine the leftovers in more detail and they did find the toxins!!!

 

[drsleuth]

Ahh so this is what I wondered yesterday, so they did examine the leftovers in more detail and they did find the toxins!!!

Very interesting, wasn't expecting that.

 

[Marg944]

So Death Cap was found in the "left overs" !

Would have loved to have seen Erin’s reaction to this bombshell!!

 

[Deleted member 363451]

2 hours ago

What Erin told child protection worker​

Katrina Cripps, who worked for Child Protection in July 2023, has entered the witness box after a morning delay.
She said she spoke with Erin, including about her relationship with her estranged husband Simon, on July 31 – two days after the lunch – after she had been admitted to hospital.
“She applied for child support because she was seeking family tax benefit,” Ms Cripps said, noting that was in 2022.
“She said it had changed the relationship with her and Simon.
“She felt that was the time he had become nasty.”
Ms Cripps said Erin had described Simon as “controlling and emotionally abusive”.
“And (he) would say things to her that would make herself doubt herself as a parent,” she said.
She added that Erin told her Don and Gail were the “parents she hadn’t had”.
“She cared and loved them very much,” she said.
But she told the court Erin had started to feel isolated from them and had not been invited to family events of late.

2 hours ago

Erin 'dished up all the plates': Witness​

Ms Cripps said Erin told her she had invited the lunch guests over because “she had something she wanted to discuss with them”.
“It was a medical issue, I believe,” she told the jury.
She said Erin wanted to cook a “new and special” meal for them from a cookbook.
The court heard Erin told Ms Cripps she had bought pre-sliced mushrooms from Woolworths and mushrooms from an Asian grocer.
“She said that she read that the (mushrooms from the Asian grocer) would add a nice flavour to the beef wellington,” Ms Cripps said.
When asked by Crown prosecutor Sarah Lenthall how much Erin ate of her beef wellington, she replied: “Half.”
“I don’t believe she ate it all,” she added.
Ms Cripps said Erin told her she had “dished up all the plates”, before the lunch guests chose their own plates and she took the one that was left over.
She told the court Erin said she started to feel unwell that evening when she had to drop her son’s friend home.
The court heard she then took her son to the supermarket, but stayed in the car because she thought she may have an accident.
Ms Cripps said Erin said she hoped sitting down in the car would provide a “cork”.
Later, Justice Christopher Beale asked the witness whether “cork” was the exact word used by the accused.
“Yes,” Ms Cripps replied.

2 hours ago

Erin didn't respond when asked about foraging​

Ms Cripps told the court she visited Erin again on August 2 at her Leongatha home, a day after she had been discharged from hospital.
She told the court Erin had searched her bank records to find a purchase relating to the Asian grocer.
“She couldn’t find any record,” she said.
She said Erin said if it was a small purchase, she may have paid cash.
Ms Cripps agreed she asked Erin whether she had picked the mushrooms.
Ms Lenthall asked: “Did she answer you?”
She replied: “No.”
The court heard Erin was on her phone while they were having that conversation.
Ms Cripps said Erin told her she had rehydrated the mushrooms from the Asian grocer and used “all of them” in the beef wellington meal.

2 hours ago

Erin put leftovers aside while plating up: Witness​

Under cross examination by defence barrister Sophie Stafford, Ms Cripps is being asked about two conversations Erin recounted to her.
The conversations were those she had with Simon on the Sunday and Monday after the lunch.
Ms Stafford asked: “Can I suggest to you that she did not tell you that Simon had told her that the others (the guests) were unwell (on Sunday)?”
She replied: “You can suggest it, but I’m certain that it happened.”
Ms Cripps said Erin did not use names, but indicated that she said Simon told her the “others” were unwell.
She added that Erin found out that Don and Gail, specifically, were unwell on Monday morning when she had another phone call with Simon.
Ms Stafford also asked Ms Cripps about what Erin told her about the lunch and her serve of the beef wellington.
She asked: “Was it your recollection that … she indicated to you she may have eaten half?”
Ms Cripps replied: “Yes.”
But she agreed it was more accurate to say that Erin indicated that she ate “some of it”.
The court also heard Ms Cripps recalled Erin telling her that she put “two plates aside” when plating up, adding that she mentioned they were for leftovers.
Ms Cripps will return to the witness box at 2.15pm

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/the-mushroom-cook/erin-patterson-trial-live-updates-from-morwell-court/live-coverage/6b4cf21616470f7bfc285cdb671b62b6?amp

Was Ian Wilkinson asked about what Erin ate that day for lunch?

 

[Detechtive]

Very interesting, wasn't expecting that.

Me either but I found the prior experts examination a little odd. She was adamant prior to looking at them that they couldn't be deathcap mushrooms. I also found it a bit strange that she only looked at them visually given they were probably put in a blender, whereas we know that mushrooms contain their own DNA to be tested chemically.

So if I have my math correct....
I recall reading that there was "one and a bit" of leftovers of the "pies" in the rubbish.

Don, Gail, Heather and Ians Beef Wellington was all eaten. No leftovers.

Erins was half eaten, so 1/2 leftover - half disposed in the bin.

The kids leftovers were eaten, so nothing in the bin from them.

But there was one sample of mushroom duxelle and meat which contained death caps. I think that was Simon's serving. Allegedly, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Actually, I'm not finding this allegation surprising. We already know that she has initiated multiple separations from him - common in women attempting to leave controlling/narcissistic partners, who are then "love bombed" into giving them another chance.

We know Erin felt he was financially abusive from the information about her missing out on child support / family tax benefit and then feeling blindsided that he filed his tax return as separated.

Her son mentioned the games his father played in relation to the school.

There's a lot of indicators that suggest, at minimum, financial abuse.

It is my belief that EP murdered her in-laws, and that she was probably a victim of coercive control/financial abuse. One doesn't excuse the other.

Speaking from experience, it does sound as though he may have been financially abusive. It's certainly not a reason to kill his family or attempt to murder him though...

 

[Kemug]

I know I can't avoid hearing about "Erin's pooping habits", but I beg the rest of you, please stop telling me yours!

 

[LinasK]

2m ago

What we learned today​

​

By Judd Boaz​

Today, we heard from two witnesses in the Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial.

One witness, Katrina Cripps, spoke with Erin Patterson in the days following the lunch, travelling to her Leongatha home where the deadly lunch was served.

The other, Dimitri Gerostamoulos, was responsible for testing both the lunch guests and the food they ate for traces of deadly death cap mushroom toxins.

Here's what we learned:

1. Katrina Cripps told the court that Erin Patterson reported eating half of her serving of the beef Wellington lunch in the days afterwards.
2. Erin told Ms Cripps that she feared for her privacy after the lunch and was considering changing her phone number.
3. Donald Patterson and Ian Wilkinson tested positive for death cap toxins, with alpha and beta amanitin found in their urine samples.
4. Heather Wilkinson and Gail Patterson tested negative for death cap mushroom toxins.
5. Erin Patterson and her two children all tested negative for death cap mushroom toxins.
6. Both leftover residue from Erin Patterson's dehydrator, and mushroom paste leftovers from the lunch tested positive for death cap mushroom toxins.

Juror dismissed in Erin Patterson murder trial — as it happened

Erin Patterson faces three charges of murder in the Latrobe Valley Law Courts. She's accused of killing three relatives by serving them beef Wellington containing poisonous mushrooms. Follow the events as they happened in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

Who can explain why both Heather and Gail tested negative for Death Cap toxins, yet they died anyway?

 

[Detechtive]

I know I can't avoid hearing about "Erin's pooping habits", but I beg the rest of you, please stop telling me yours!

Thank you. I really don't want to know either!

 

[Ellery84]

How did Heather die?

Heather Wilkinson's test results are next.

Urine was collected from Heather Wilkinson, unlike from Gail Patterson.

No alpha-amanitin or beta-amanitin toxin was found in her samples.


Live: No death cap toxins found in Erin Patterson's body, trial hears

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I did think " she's researched this!"

Bring on the digital evidence I say!

So let's say hypothetically that the toxins didn't remain in Erin's guests systems. What did Eric think that their poisoning would have been attributed to, given that they all fell sick after that lunch?

 

[Ellery84]

Would have loved to have seen Erin’s reaction to this bombshell!!

Priceless.

 

[Detechtive]

Who can explain why both Heather and Gail tested negative for Death Cap toxins, yet they died anyway?

Because at the time they died, they didn't know that it was death cap poisoning suspected and didn't take the samples. The toxins only stay in the body for 24-36 hours, and longer in urine. They died before those samples were taken, apparently. And the post-mortem samples weren't taken until August 8, by which time the death cap toxins were completely eliminated from their system.

It really isn't of significance, because Erins defence admitted she poisoned the guests - "accidentally" with death caps.

Also, the circumstantial evidence of identical symptoms to the husbands who did test positive to death cap poisoning is enough to get it over the line. I would suggest there will be some expert evidence from autopsy about the sight of their livers and other organs to prove circumstantial death cap poisoning anyway.

 

[Ellery84]

So let's say hypothetically that the toxins didn't remain in Erin's guests systems. What did Eric think that their poisoning would have been attributed to, given that they all fell sick after that lunch?

Maybe she gave them her quick acting ovarian cancer via her elbow lesion?

Or they were poisoned and the detection tools are not great.

IMO

 

[Ellery84]

Because at the time they died, they didn't know that it was death cap poisoning suspected and didn't take the samples. The toxins only stay in the body for 24-36 hours, and longer in urine. They died before those samples were taken, apparently. And the post-mortem samples weren't taken until August 8, by which time the death cap toxins were completely eliminated from their system.

It really isn't of significance, because Erins defence admitted she poisoned the guests - "accidentally" with death caps.

Also, the circumstantial evidence of identical symptoms to the husbands who did test positive to death cap poisoning is enough to get it over the line. I would suggest there will be some expert evidence from autopsy about the sight of their livers and other organs to prove circumstantial death cap poisoning anyway.

I bet she’s regretting admitting that now.

IMO

BBM

 

[Detechtive]

So let's say hypothetically that the toxins didn't remain in Erin's guests systems. What did Eric think that their poisoning would have been attributed to, given that they all fell sick after that lunch?

Generalised food poisoning which she might have been able to blame on another meal they ate together and distance herself and her children completely from the event.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Generalised food poisoning which she might have been able to blame on another meal they ate together and distance herself and her children completely from the event.

That's if they had indeed shared another meal together, which is unlikely in the time frame required...

 

[Detechtive]

Speaking from experience, it does sound as though he may have been financially abusive. It's certainly not a reason to kill his family or attempt to murder him though...

I disagree. It is Erin who sounds financially abusive, to me. She left him in 2015 when she got her money from her grandmother, and bought a house in her name only while stringing him along for many years later.

She was an accountant. She knows about money. She handled the finances, it appears.

Yes, she lent money to his siblings, but that doesn't make her a saint. Perhaps she liked having that over them for control reasons, too. Yes they were interest free, but they were indexed. Not exactly "free loans". Besides, having lent money offers tax relief for Erin.

In 2022, the fact that Simon was paying for Medical bills, School fees (expensive Anglican private school) etc and did the unthinkable and put "separated" on his tax return because he was literally separated her for 7 years prior, seems to have been the event that triggered her resentment.

She threatened him that she would lodge for child support and family tax benefit, which he said sure, go ahead, but I am not going to keep paying everything else AND ALSO child support.

Add to that, his parents wouldn't get on her side to control him financially.....

I also think she was afraid that a government declaration of separation in 2022 could point to him divorcing her in 12 months in 2023. Given her inheritances would have been divided equally among the parties, she stood to lose a lot of money and control.

Then, we have the fact that the Child Support Agency assessed him at only needing to pay her $48 per month which sounds like nothing, but they would ONLY make that assessment if her income was higher than his, because they take into consideration income but also care percentage. This shows that even though she did the majority of caretaking of the children, that her income must have been quite significantly higher than his.

In 2019 (after her mothers death and her large inheritance from that) when she wanted to reconcile, she put his name on the title of her new house which in my opinion, was a way to financially lure him back to the relationship because he was unhappy about being excluded from her 'wealth' which was supposed to be equally shared in a marriage.

Then if you add to that, that each of the siblings of Simons stood to inherit approximately $700k each upon his parents death, it would mean that the two siblings who owed "her" money could have paid it out in a lumpsum, while also getting rid of Simon and his support system (his parents), who would have arguably become custodians of his share of assets on behalf of the children because they are not 18.

They lived separately, it's not exactly like he had much influence in her life from afar - how could he be that controlling? He didn't even go to her house, and they had a cold text relationship.

I think the motive is clear - and it is financial, just like the vast majority of poisonings are.

All alleged, all my opinion only.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Would have loved to have seen Erin’s reaction to this bombshell!!

So why was it reported yesterday that it wasn't detected in the leftovers?

 

[Yh5r]

Generalised food poisoning which she might have been able to blame on another meal they ate together and distance herself and her children completely from the event.

Silly though to invite 4 guests (and even planning on inviting 5, had Simon attended) who don't live in the same household and as such don't eat the same food normally. When all 4 guests ended up in hospital the next day, it was very easy to pinpoint the event that caused their food poisoning type symptoms.