Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #9 *Arrest*

[Jake18]

Her defence team has agreed that she foraged. It is a non-issue now.

Colin Mandy is her barrister.

Mandy went on to say that: “She also lied to the police about foraging for mushrooms. She admits that.
“She did forage for mushrooms. Just so that we make that clear, she denies that she ever deliberately sought out death cap mushrooms.”

Erin Patterson showed no sign of liver damage experienced by other mushroom lunch attenders, trial hears

Victorian jury also sees images appearing to show accused disposing of food dehydrator at tip, and hears from expert who examined lunch leftovers

www.theguardian.com

But isn’t it very risky not to even offer a competing narrative?

 

[SouthAussie]

But isn’t it very risky not to even offer a competing narrative?

They have. Her defence team is saying she panicked, and that is why she lied. That the poisonings were an accident.

Now the prosecution needs to prove intent to poison and kill.

 

[Detechtive]

The fact she allegedly lured them there with a fake cancer diagnosis is all the circumstantial evidence I need to see intent. That was before the lunch. That was before all of the alleged "panic". They were invited weeks prior, it was planned.

At any time during those weeks, she had the option to change her plan. She didn't.
At any time post poisoning, she had the option to assist with police. She didn't. She just lied and obstructed.

It's a slam dunk for me, without further forensics.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Quite accident prone, isn't she?

Very.

 

[ch_13]

They have. Her defence team is saying she panicked, and that is why she lied. That the poisonings were an accident.

Now the prosecution needs to prove intent to poison and kill.

I think the problem for the defense is that there is no one who can provide evidence of Erin's thoughts and actions except for Erin.

Why did she break some of the most elementary rules of foraging? Why did she host this party and what did she say to the group about a cancer diagnosis? Why did she not tell her guests there were wild mushrooms in the food? What made her panic and lie afterwards?

All questions that I think the jury is going to want answered. But of course, they also don't want her subject to cross-examination. The prosecution would eviscerate her.

It's a real quandary for the defense.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I find it hard to believe she made four beef Wellingtons, not knowing they had death cap mushrooms inside.

But it just so happens the other one didn't and was eaten by Erin.

Her half, the leftover one in the bin, would have been clear

(Prosecution then asks how much of the beef Wellington Erin Patterson said she had eaten.
"Half," Ms Cripps replies)

It certainly looks like Erin intended to make the four deathcaps poisonous ones and one safe one for herself.

My thoughts are she also could have possibly made an extra one for Simon, hoping he might just turn up, and that one was also poisonous as well

When Simon hadn't turned up, she most likely threw it out into the outside bin, with half of her safe before the kids got home, which would have been part of the samples from the police that collected

The leftover food was located at the bottom of her outdoor red-lidded bin in an “seeping” brown paper Woolworths bag, the officer said.
“It was primarily maybe one-and-a-bit beef wellingtons

Which just my thought is that Erin had made her beef wellington before she made the other four/five poisonous ones

Knowing that there was death cap residue in the dehydrator left over, which was leftover from the last poisonous meals made

Her plate was a different colour and probably already plated, probably placed it in the fridge for a short time, while she next made the other poisonous beef wellingtons.

She knew hers was on an orange plate




* Earlier in the trial, the court heard that Erin Patterson both purchased and later dumped a black Sunbeam food dehydrator, from which samples were taken. The tests were more than 99 per cent positive for death cap mushroom residue in the dehydrator, but Dr Lovelock said he found no evidence in the leftover food provided.



"Both Heather and Gail were offering to help plate up the food ... the offer was rejected and Erin plated it," Wilkinson told a jury of 15.

In Ian Wilkinson’s evidence, he told how Erin served the guests individually wrapped beef Wellington on “large grey plates”, while Erin’s plate was “smaller” and “rusty … orange” in colour.

Colin Mandy, SC, Erin’s defence barrister, pressed the pastor on this point, saying he may have been mistaken and that the crockery could have been a “mismatch” of plates, which the pastor firmly denied

'In three of four mushroom paste samples, no alpha-amanitin or beta-amanitin toxins were found, but in one sample, they detected beta-amanitin.'

Based on this statement, the mushroom paste was not prepared in 1 batch and spread over the individual servings. They were made in individual batches.


*
Dr Rogers says Ms Patterson's fingerprints were found on the recovered dehydrator.

The prosecutor says in a subsequent police interview, Ms Patterson told police she had never owned or used a dehydrator, before telling police she "might" have owned one years ago.

On April 18, 2023, an iNaturalist user identified deathcap mushrooms near the town of Loch, which is about 14 kms from Korumburra.

Analysis was conducted on the devices, with an expert concluding that she travelled to Loch and Outtrim, two nearby areas where death cap mushrooms had been identified as growing on the iNaturalist.org website.

The trip to Outtrim was made one day after a positive sighting of the mushrooms was listed on the website, Dr Rogers says.


That dehydrator was purchased from a Leongatha shop two-and-a-half hours before a trip to Loch, the prosecutor says.

Banter, prayers and a unique orange plate: Survivor recounts deadly mushroom meal in court

The sole survivor of a mushroom meal that left three people dead has taken the stand in court.

www.sbs.com.au

Toxicologist explains deadliness of death cap mushrooms to murder trial

Defence lawyers for accused killer Erin Patterson have suggested a person could survive death cap mushroom poisoning, even after eating the same meal as someone who fell seriously ill.

www.abc.net.au

The trial of mushroom cook Erin Patterson

Witnesses testify at the trial of Erin Patterson, as the Crown tries to prove she intentionally killed three family members by poisoning them at a lunch in 2023.

www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-jury-told-of-beef-wellington-leftovers-journey-after-fatal-lunch/news-story/466b035986eb25bf2ee2a39fa077a066

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I think the kids had the eye fillet steak, cooked in a frypan. I think it was the same eye fillet steak Erin used to make the beef Wellington dishes.

So she’s used the same meat ingredient, but we know it’s not the meat that made the guests ill, it was the death cap mushrooms.

“I remember I was asking her what we were having that night, and she said she was MAKING leftovers from yesterday’s lunch,” she said.

When the police officer asks “is she a good cook”, Patterson’s daughter responded “yes, very good”.

Erin Patterson’s daughter says accused mushroom poisoner was ‘very good’ cook, murder trial hears

Patterson’s son tells jury eye-fillet steak from leftovers of fatal lunch was ‘some of the best meat I’ve ever had’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Kemug]

It's to be hoped that prison doesn't let this "very good cook" assist in the kitchen.

 

[Kemug]

I was wondering why it was several days before she got rid of the dehydrator, but of course she was in hospital for some of that time.

 

[katydid23]

Just wondering whether she will say she actually did buy dried mushrooms and stored them in a container in her pantry and that she also had foraged and dried (the death cap) mushrooms (which she could claim she thought were safe) and put them in a similar container and that in the rush to make the lunch she must have mixed them up and only realised afterwards what might have happened and panicked and ditched the dehydrator. This may sway jurors as far as intent....

In order to tell that story, Erin needs to testify under oath, which means she has to answer questions from the prosecution too.

I wonder if she will do that?

She can't make up excuses or explanations like you describe, unless she herself testifies. There is no one else that can tell that story first hand.

But again, even if she has some good explanation for how death caps got there, it doesn't explain some other big problems---

---Why didn't she tell her luncheon guests that she was serving them foraged mushrooms? That is a big risk she was taking without giving her guests the chance to decide for themselves if they wanted that risk.

---If she realised early on about her possible mistake, why did she resist having her children tested and treated? It doesn't make sense that she would deny them care if she knew she accidentally made a serious mistake. It makes more sense to me that she only denied them care at first because she knew they weren't served Death Caps. IMO

---Once the guests were hospitalised, and the doctors were so concerned, why didn't she admit she had served them foraged mushrooms? She could have saved their lives. Instead she sealed their fates by continuing to LIE.

It is hard to ignore her 'intent' knowing she could have saved their lives but instead, she continued to lie, and prevented them from receiving a timely antidote.

The possible explanation you suggested above does not undo some of the messy evidence showing her early behaviour that seems suspicious. IMO

 

[Jake18]

They have. Her defence team is saying she panicked, and that is why she lied. That the poisonings were an accident.

Now the prosecution needs to prove intent to poison and kill.

The defense is saying she panicked after Simon allegedly confronted her about the dehydrator - hence why she lied about it and threw it way (supposedly)

has “panic” been used as an excuse by her about the source of the mushrooms?

 

[katydid23]

maybe she will claim it was too late when she realised and she thought she had to save herself from jail for her childrens' sakes...? and only when the evidence was mounting up was it best to come clean...?

If she is then telling the jury that she intentionally put her 'freedom' ahead of their lives, then that fits the intent in the murder/manslaughter definition.

"Yah, I made a mistake but when they were in the hospital and I was asked about the mushrooms, I wanted to save myself for my children's sake, so I decided to let their grandparents die a very gruesome death instead."

 

[BreakingNews]

I can’t understand how she can get away with not testifying. We haven’t heard her police statement yet, but her original police interview (as far as we know) stated that she didn’t forage, didn’t have a dehydrator and definitely bought the mushrooms at a shop.

Assuming that the police evidence confirms this, doesn’t that evidence stand unless she formally counters it?

In Australia, she is presumed innocent until proven guilty by a jury. The onus is on the prosecution to prove her guilt. Not on her to prove her innocence. It is her right to remain silent. Rarely do accused murderers testify in their own trial.

CHARTER OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES ACT 2006 - SECT 25 Rights in criminal proceedings

classic.austlii.edu.au

 

[katydid23]

The defense is saying she panicked after Simon allegedly confronted her about the dehydrator - hence why she lied about it and threw it way (supposedly)

has “panic” been used as an excuse by her about the source of the mushrooms?

And Simon has denied that he even said that to her in the hospital. Did she lie about that too, just to give her an excuse 'to panic' and tip the dehydrator?

 

[katydid23]

Would she have known if it was too late for treatment to work? If, in fact, it was too late.

(I don't know if the medical staff knew it was Death Caps for sure by Aug 2nd, or not.)

I think they must have because EP said that Simon asked her if she used her dehydrator to kill his family----so he must have been referring to mushrooms, right? I think so...

 

[BreakingNews]

I think the problem for the defense is that there is no one who can provide evidence of Erin's thoughts and actions except for Erin.

Why did she break some of the most elementary rules of foraging? Why did she host this party and what did she say to the group about a cancer diagnosis? Why did she not tell her guests there were wild mushrooms in the food? What made her panic and lie afterwards?

All questions that I think the jury is going to want answered. But of course, they also don't want her subject to cross-examination. The prosecution would eviscerate her.

It's a real quandary for the defense.

It is not her responsibility to prove her innocence. The Prosecution is responsible for proving her guilt.

 

[Jake18]

And if it was “panic” that caused her to lie about the Asian grocer she was “panicking” for a sustained period of time. She told her Facebook friend that’s where they’d come from, the hospital staff incl the toxicologist, the child protection officer and presumably the police. That’s a very lengthy period to be panicked for.

I agree she’d be awful on the stand, but I don’t think she has a chance unless she can be seen to take the court into her confidence.

 

[ch_13]

It is not her responsibility to prove her innocence. The Prosecution is responsible for proving her guilt.

Yes. We all know that. It's been said repeatedly, and I expect everyone is familiar with the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

But, in the end this case turns on intent. Did Erin intend to poison her guests or was it all a terrible mistake? I expect the state is going to show all the elements of the crime, and they will have lots of evidence that exhibits bad intent, e.g. the fake cancer, the lack of toxin in her system, the lying about where the mushrooms came from, the destruction of evidence, and so on.

IMO, with the plethora of evidence that has come out so far, the defense can't simply claim that the case hasn't been proven and rest. They need to mount some kind of counter-argument that rebuts the prosecution's version, whether or not they put Erin on the stand.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

The police withdrew the charges for attempted murder against Simon. (yes, they are all for attempts against him)

We do not know if they were withdrawn so they can charge EP with them later, or if they are permanently withdrawn.

imo


IN A sensational development on day one of the triple murder trial of Erin Patterson, 50 of Leongatha, the prosecution has dropped the four attempted murder charges where Ms Patterson’s estranged husband Simon Patterson was the alleged victim.

When advising the new jury that the charges of attempted murder relating to Simon Patterson had been “discontinued by the Director of Public Prosecutions”, in other words those charges have been dropped,

Justice Beale instructed the jurors to put them out of their mind, especially if they had previously been aware of charges in relation to Ms Patterson’s estranged husband.

Four attempted murder charges dropped in Patterson case - South Gippsland Sentinel Times

The prosecution has dropped the attempted murder charges where Simon Patterson was the alleged victim. IN A sensational development on day one of the triple murder trial of Erin Patterson, the prosecution has dropped the attempted murder charges...

www.sgst.com.au

Thanks for that South Aussie, I must have missed that while trying to catch up. Do we know any more on what led police to have enough to charge her with the attempts on Simon's life? We know he was sick several times in the past, one where he was hospitalised for a period, but what would police have, retrospectively, on her? I understand the hospitalisation would have records associated with it, but the others? I guess if they've been dropped for good we may never know.

 

[katydid23]

Question -----at what point did EP know that her lunch guests were seriously ill?



30 Apr, 7:51pm

Erin Patterson told husband she was unwell, court hears​

By Judd Boaz​

Simon Patterson says in a conversation with his estranged wife Erin Patterson after the lunch, she had claimed she had also been ill.

“She said she’d been having some diarrhoea herself and it was quite frequent,” he says.

Mr Patterson says Ms Patterson indicated she had been experiencing diarrhoea every 20 minutes or so, and that she had not wanted to get out of the car at risk of having an accident.

"She was worried that she'd poo her pants," he says.

He tells the court after a long day at the hospital, he returned to his own home at Korumburra at about 2:30am in the morning.


[Monday morning at 7 AM she called Simon?]
Mr Patterson says he received a call at 7am the next morning from Erin Patterson, who wanted to talk.

"She was a bit indignant maybe," he says.

"She said sarcastically 'I'll sort out my own problems or something to that effect'."

He says Ms Patterson told him of further diarrhoea and asked him to take her to the hospital.

Mr Patterson says he declined and told her to get an ambulance instead.

Simon Patterson tells court of 'strained' relationship with alleged mushroom killer

By Judd Boaz​

Today’s proceedings in the trial centred on evidence given by Simon Patterson, the estranged husband of Erin Patterson.

• A conversation at the hospital the day after the lunch was the first time Simon had heard of Erin using a food dehydrator.

By Judd Boaz​

Nanette Rogers has continued her questioning of Simon Patterson, estranged husband of Erin Patterson.

The questioning has resumed detailing the day after the lunch, when Mr Patterson picked up his children from school to bring them to hospital for tests and asked them about what they had eaten.

The children responded that they had eaten steak, green beans and mashed potato, but no mushrooms.

Mr Patterson confirms his children were found not to be ill at Monash, but were kept overnight.

He tells the court that while the children were being admitted to hospital, they saw Erin being brought into the hospital on a trolley.

He says there was no sign of vomiting or diarrhoea from Ms Patterson when he saw her.

Mr Patterson says one of his children raised the topic of mushrooms in the hospital.

He says during their time in hospital Erin had mentioned conducting a blind taste test with mushroom-infused muffins with her children, using a dehydrator.

"It felt like news to me that she dehydrated food," Mr Patterson says.

He tells the court he was not aware that Erin owned a dehydrator.

• 30 Apr, 8:01pm

Erin Patterson had 'barney' with hospital staff​

By Joseph Dunstan​

Simon Patterson recalls taking a phone call from Erin Patterson on the Monday after the lunch.

He tells the court she told him she had been to Leongatha Hospital and hospital staff had advised her to bring their children in for assessment.

"I said to her I'm glad that you feel healthy enough to pick up the kids now," he says.

Mr Patterson says his wife turned down his offer to pick up the children from school and says she wanted to pick up the children herself.

He says she told him she did not want the children to "feel scared" about why they were being picked up.

Mr Patterson says he thinks his wife "had a bit of a barney" with hospital staff about which hospital the children would be admitted to for observation as she wanted them at the same hospital as her.

He says she later told him she checked herself out of hospital and drove home, where she lay down and slept for 45 minutes.