GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #18

[Hercule Holmes]

I don't think she expected #2. She lied about having foraged mushrooms. If she'd been smarter, that would have been the right angle.

If she didn't expect there was a chance the DC's could be detected, then she didn't research very well beyond the first 48 hours.

It would have been easy enough to know that blood and urine tests would only show the toxin for around 48 hours. I am certain she knew that much.

If 4 (was meant to be 5) related people all suddenly died from unknown causes, there would be autopsies conducted as a matter of urgency. The risk is not necessarily a murderer, but a potential disastrous health crisis, where the public are still at risk.

If it is one person who falls ill (like Simon previously) the testing would not go to the same levels. We will never know what would have happened had he actually died from one of the earlier attempts.

I can find by googling, that a forensic pathologist could determine DC poisoning by the specific signs of deterioration of the liver. It might have taken a while (as mentioned, it wasn't DC season), and they might have had to call for the best practitioners in the country, but they would have found the cause eventually. There is no way the medical fraternity (and police), would have thrown their collective hands in the air and accepted 3,4 or 5 deaths as an unfortunate tragedy of unknown cause.

 

[Monstradamus]

If she didn't expect there was a chance the DC's could be detected, then she didn't research very well beyond the first 48 hours.

It would have been easy enough to know that blood and urine tests would only show the toxin for around 48 hours. I am certain she knew that much.

If 4 (was meant to be 5) related people all suddenly died from unknown causes, there would be autopsies conducted as a matter of urgency. The risk is not necessarily a murderer, but a potential disastrous health crisis, where the public are still at risk.

If it is one person who falls ill (like Simon previously) the testing would not go to the same levels. We will never know what would have happened had he actually died from one of the earlier attempts.

I can find by googling, that a forensic pathologist could determine DC poisoning by the specific signs of deterioration of the liver. It might have taken a while (as mentioned, it wasn't DC season), and they might have had to call for the best practitioners in the country, but they would have found the cause eventually. There is no way the medical fraternity (and police), would have thrown their collective hands in the air and accepted 3,4 or 5 deaths as an unfortunate tragedy of unknown cause.

Yes, even if the medical authorities weren't onto it straight away, the deaths would still be traced back to the lunch, imo. Was she just going to throw her hands in the air, and say "I'm sorry, it was a terrible accident, let's just move on with our lives"?
It seems to me she was blinded by rage and revenge, and didn't think through the consequences / outcome very well.
Once people's usefulness to her was over, and she wasn't getting the supply and control any more she flipped her lid, big time.

MOO

 

[Eloise]

Yes, even if the medical authorities weren't onto it straight away, the deaths would still be traced back to the lunch, imo. Was she just going to throw her hands in the air, and say "I'm sorry, it was a terrible accident, let's just move on with our lives"?
It seems to me she was blinded by rage and revenge, and didn't think through the consequences / outcome very well.
Once people's usefulness to her was over, and she wasn't getting the supply and control any more she flipped her lid, big time.

MOO

I find this common with family annihilators, DV killers etc. They seem to have so little respect and so much contempt for their 'loved ones' that they seem to think that nobody will care about them dying and not want to fully investigate

 

[Kemug]

It seems to me she was blinded by rage and revenge, and didn't think through the consequences / outcome very well.
Once people's usefulness to her was over, and she wasn't getting the supply and control any more she flipped her lid, big time.

RSBM
I wonder if she has ever done that before, ie "flipped her lid, big time"? Obviously, not quite so "big time".

 

[Kemug]

I am thinking that this evil event may have brought Simon and his uncle Ian even closer. For one thing, they both bear the physical scars of having Erin in their lives - don't they both have damaged intestines? What an evil person she is.

 

[Tweet57]

I am thinking that this evil event may have brought Simon and his uncle Ian even closer. For one thing, they both bear the physical scars of having Erin in their lives - don't they both have damaged intestines? What an evil person she is.

Not sure how it will affect family dynamics, but hopefully things will be okay. They all certainly have a lot of cr@p to work through and deal with.

 

[Deleted member 367982]

Does anyone know what Erin's parents were like.

Erin Patterson and her sister sold the property in Eden, for $900,000 following their mother Heather Scutter's death in 2019.

Her mother Heather Scutter was a much-respected lecturer at Monash University and expert in children's literature

Erin's father, Eitan Scutter held director roles in multiple Australian companies, including in his home state of South Australia, and at Eden in NSW, where he later retired.

Three former colleagues said some would call her "crazy Erin" and "Scutter the nutter" behind her back. They said there was a nasty side to her.

Sometimes there's a triggering factor that can cause a person to do something completely abnormal.

 

[Kemug]

Not sure how it will affect family dynamics, but hopefully things will be okay. They all certainly have a lot of cr@p to work through and deal with.

I think any problems will be mainly to do with the children. That will be very tricky. They will still have some contact with her, and it would probably be impossible to never mention her in conversation. It would be easier if she was "late" - but she isn't, and so what on earth can you say?

 

[Tweet57]

I think any problems will be mainly to do with the children. That will be very tricky. They will still have some contact with her, and it would probably be impossible to never mention her in conversation. It would be easier if she was "late" - but she isn't, and so what on earth can you say?

As the kids are teenagers and not little ones, they have probably read MSM etc, can google and understood conversations at school and within the family.
I’m sure the experts have advised the best way to handle their questions and inevitable anger and possibly acting out. But like you said, “What on earth can you say?” Just heartbreaking.
Seeing and talking to their mother could either be distrastous or maybe calming for them. Of course, she would tell them it was a terrible accident. She’d have no option, especially in view of a possible impending appeal.
Poor poor kids- affected for their whole lives.

 

[IBR]

The fatal lunch was on Saturday, Erin says she became unwell Saturday night, son allegedly woke Sunday with a stomach ache, Sunday morning church was cancelled as a result, Sunday afternoon was spent driving to the flying lesson that was cancelled last minute/pooing by the roadside/stopping multiple times for snacks and a 9 second toilet trip, Sunday night the kids were fed "leftovers" with the mushrooms scraped off, allegedly..

Yeah, you’re right. I mixed the days up.

 

[Deleted member 367982]

As the kids are teenagers and not little ones, they have probably read MSM etc, can google and understood conversations at school and within the family.
I’m sure the experts have advised the best way to handle their questions and inevitable anger and possibly acting out. But like you said, “What on earth can you say?” Just heartbreaking.
Seeing and talking to their mother could either be distrastous or maybe calming for them. Of course, she would tell them it was a terrible accident. She’d have no option, especially in view of a possible impending appeal.
Poor poor kids- affected for their whole lives.

It's a good way to totally do your kids' heads in by their mum continually telling them that she is innocent, while the whole world knows she's a cold-blooded multiple murderer who callously killed the kids grandparents over some twisted reason Erin will probably take to her grave.
Personally, I reckon the kids should have nothing to do with Erin.
IMO they should view Erin as just a horrible aberration on their lives otherwise they are going to need a lot of therapy..

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

It's a good way to totally do your kids' heads in by their mum continually telling them that she is innocent, while the whole world knows she's a cold-blooded multiple murderer who callously killed the kids grandparents over some twisted reason Erin will probably take to her grave.
Personally, I reckon the kids should have nothing to do with Erin.
IMO they should view Erin as just a horrible aberration on their lives otherwise they are going to need a lot of therapy..

It's going to be really hard for her kids because she was in other regards a really good mum, ensuring they had a lovely home, great education, holidays, saw their wider family (now mostly deceased), had social lives, friends, activities and hobbies. I can't imagine what those poor children have been through this whole time the case has been in court and going forwards.

JMO but there's a huge similarity between EP and Sarah Boone suitcase murderer in terms of the sadistic, vengeful, cruel tortuous murders -but- SB was already known for being a terrible mother and hopeless volatile drunk so her child was already in custody with his father. I do wonder how much EP was drinking. It hasn't been mentioned but she could have been quite the alcoholic IMO.

JMO MOO

 

[Deleted member 367982]

It's going to be really hard for her kids because she was in other regards a really good mum, ensuring they had a lovely home, great education, holidays, saw their wider family (now mostly deceased), had social lives, friends, activities and hobbies. I can't imagine what those poor children have been through this whole time the case has been in court and going forwards.

JMO but there's a huge similarity between EP and Sarah Boone suitcase murderer in terms of the sadistic, vengeful, cruel tortuous murders -but- SB was already known for being a terrible mother and hopeless volatile drunk so her child was already in custody with his father. I do wonder how much EP was drinking. It hasn't been mentioned but she could have been quite the alcoholic IMO.

JMO MOO

I think if she was drinking then that's only an excuse for what she did. And alcoholics are not regarded as good parents.
What I can't see any sense about is getting what is regarded as a top lawyer in Colin Mandy to represent her. I mean what did Mandy do that she couldn't have achieved by representing herself.
She still got found guilty on all accounts with no hope of of a successful appeal IMO
EDIT What I forgot to say about getting Mandy is if Erin knew the evidence was stacked against her she could have pleaded guilty, done a psych test to prove she's not right in the head and it could have helped restore a bit of communication with her children while she's a jail for maybe only 15 years for what she did.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

It's going to be really hard for her kids because she was in other regards a really good mum, ensuring they had a lovely home, great education, holidays, saw their wider family (now mostly deceased), had social lives, friends, activities and hobbies. I can't imagine what those poor children have been through this whole time the case has been in court and going forwards.

JMO but there's a huge similarity between EP and Sarah Boone suitcase murderer in terms of the sadistic, vengeful, cruel tortuous murders -but- SB was already known for being a terrible mother and hopeless volatile drunk so her child was already in custody with his father. I do wonder how much EP was drinking. It hasn't been mentioned but she could have been quite the alcoholic IMO.

JMO MOO

I would argue that she was a 'really good mum'.

 

[ch_13]

I think if she was drinking then that's only an excuse for what she did. And alcoholics are not regarded as good parents.
What I can't see any sense about is getting what is regarded as a top lawyer in Colin Mandy to represent her. I mean what did Mandy do that she couldn't have achieved by representing herself.
She still got found guilty on all accounts with no hope of of a successful appeal IMO

Mandy did about as good a job as could be done. It's not just what happens in the trial, but also in the pretrial phase. For example, he got the visit she made to the dump right after the lunch excluded. (I still can't imagine how he managed that.) There was probably a whole lot more evidence that we never saw because of his work. Also, a good lawyer makes objections to preserve appealable issues. From what I understand, there isn't a whole lot of grounds for an appeal, but only because the judge was by all accounts extremely thorough and careful in his rulings.

In the end, Mandy was never going to get a not guilty, but he did get the jury to spend a week discussing the case before they got to a verdict. And, who knows? Maybe if the jury's makeup was slightly different he would have gotten a hung jury.

There's no way Erin could have done any of that. I've seen a couple of defendants represent themselves, and usually it's a farce. Often the jury is so frustrated with them by the end of the trial, they go into deliberations itching to convict.

 

[Monstradamus]

It's going to be really hard for her kids because she was in other regards a really good mum, ensuring they had a lovely home, great education, holidays, saw their wider family (now mostly deceased), had social lives, friends, activities and hobbies. I can't imagine what those poor children have been through this whole time the case has been in court and going forwards.

JMO but there's a huge similarity between EP and Sarah Boone suitcase murderer in terms of the sadistic, vengeful, cruel tortuous murders -but- SB was already known for being a terrible mother and hopeless volatile drunk so her child was already in custody with his father. I do wonder how much EP was drinking. It hasn't been mentioned but she could have been quite the alcoholic IMO.

JMO MOO

Just because her children's needs were met does not make her a "really good Mum". She appeared to weaponise her children, alienate them from Simon and callously murdered their grandparents and another relative, and almost another, imo.

 

[Ellery84]

if Erin knew the evidence was stacked against her she could have pleaded guilty, done a psych test to prove she's not right in the head and it could have helped restore a bit of communication with her children while she's a jail for maybe only 15 years for what she did.

Imo: She doesn’t have the insight to know she’s psychologically not 100%.

I heard she tried to get a plea deal for a lesser charge and the DPP/Crown rejected it and went to trial. Can anyone confirm? Was it GBH?

Also, she would never have plead guilty to murder because (ironically) she would have never wanted anyone to think that she did murder those people.

IMO

 

[Monstradamus]

Interesting YouTube video of a Psychiatrist's take on Erin's behaviour.

 

[Deleted member 367982]

Mandy did about as good a job as could be done. It's not just what happens in the trial, but also in the pretrial phase. For example, he got the visit she made to the dump right after the lunch excluded. (I still can't imagine how he managed that.) There was probably a whole lot more evidence that we never saw because of his work. Also, a good lawyer makes objections to preserve appealable issues. From what I understand, there isn't a whole lot of grounds for an appeal, but only because the judge was by all accounts extremely thorough and careful in his rulings.

In the end, Mandy was never going to get a not guilty, but he did get the jury to spend a week discussing the case before they got to a verdict. And, who knows? Maybe if the jury's makeup was slightly different he would have gotten a hung jury.

There's no way Erin could have done any of that. I've seen a couple of defendants represent themselves, and usually it's a farce. Often the jury is so frustrated with them by the end of the trial, they go into deliberations itching to convict.

I know what you mean, but even if Mandy had got a hung jury then a retrial would have found her guilty IMO.
Erin did have some legal study behind I believe. It still would have been a farce if she represented herself.
By leaving out what could have been a lot of incriminating evidence in the trial Mandy may have had a win there. But was it really a win. Erin's trying to tell everyone she didn't intend to kill three people. For the sake of her kids' state of mind it might be better knowing all those missing details and total truth about their mum not getting a smart lawyer to get her off. Do you know what I mean?

The only time I have seen a lawyer do any good for a client who would have got a better result than someone representing themselves is in the Toya Cordingly case where the lawyer was able to get a hung jury despite the accused having, I believe, his DNA under Toya's fingernails and on a stick near where she was buried. The accused is still in jail awaiting a retrial and I think he's getting an even better lawyer next time and IMO it will result in him being found not guilty. Only a good lawyer could do that.

Anyway it's all a matter of opinion, I believe Erin would be better off for the sake of her kids just to admit that she murdered several people, give her motive and in that way she may be able to hang on to some sort of relationship with her children, if she ever truly loved them that is.
Most of these damned murderers go to their graves protesting their innocence when everyone knows they are as guilty as sin.

 

[Deleted member 367982]

Imo: She doesn’t have the insight to know she’s psychologically not 100%.

I heard she tried to get a plea deal for a lesser charge and the DPP/Crown rejected it and went to trial. Can anyone confirm? Was it GBH?

Also, she would never have plead guilty to murder because (ironically) she would have never wanted anyone to think that she did murder those people.

IMO

She'll be asked to participate in a mental assessment before she's sentenced. But she doesn't have to do it. I'm suggesting she should come totally clean with what she did and fully participate in the testing. I think most of us knew she was guilty after it was reported a lunch she cooked killed three people and all the lies she told to try and get away with it. It was never going to be the perfect murder. I don't think she's smart at all, I think she's as dumb as every other murderer she's going to meet in jail in the next 30 years.