GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #19

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

One of the things that Narcs habitually do is speak word salad and tie up conversations in knots, create double binds and gaslight. For this reason people around them cannot gain agency or clarity and conversation means nothing and goes nowhere
.
Also for this reason, one hopes that EP doesn't have an online device in prison or you can bet your life she'd be here on this forum having wild debates about how a judge and jury misunderstood the situation, analysing semantics, and trying to suss out what angle to go for Appeal.

JMO MOO

 

[LinasK]

In Erin's case it was a stupid roll of the dice. I think 90% of the people who saw this case before it went to trial would have thought Erin was guilty and what made the case very intriguing was that she pleaded not guilty.
I can see no way that she won't get life without parole. She was callous, unremorseful and totally lacking in empathy for her victims and all without a known motive.
She rolled the dice and lost.
I think she would have been better off to plead guilty early, have a chance at retaining some links with her kids, keep most of her $2m and be out of jail in less than 25 years.
Anything from here on like having a lawyer for her sentencing or having a lawyer to try and get an appeal is like chucking good money after bad.
Pleading not guilty for her was like getting on to a sinking ship and now it's sunk.
There was a bloke in Perth recently, Andre Rebelo, who pleaded not guilty to killing his mum when the whole world knew he did kill her and he's now going to rot in jail for 25 years and hopefully his partner will keep his son well away from him.
Murderers seem to be clogging up the courts with their feeble-minded thoughts about pretending to be innocent.
You need more than a hot shot lawyer to keep the gavel coming down on a guilty verdict. There are exceptions where someone is innocent and pleads not guilty but not many.

The motive was obvious: Revenge against the family that wouldn't side with her against their own son.

 

[Monstradamus]

One of the things that Narcs habitually do is speak word salad and tie up conversations in knots, create double binds and gaslight. For this reason people around them cannot gain agency or clarity and conversation means nothing and goes nowhere
.
Also for this reason, one hopes that EP doesn't have an online device in prison or you can bet your life she'd be here on this forum having wild debates about how a judge and jury misunderstood the situation, analysing semantics, and trying to suss out what angle to go for Appeal.

JMO MOO

Yes, there seems to be a needle in this thread.

 

[LinasK]

When it comes to this case, I would say that almost unusually for a high profile case, we're at the point where almost 100% agree with the proposition that she set out to deliberately poison people on the 29th June 2023.

However, the reality is that outside of this statement there are still a lot of things that are not agreed on, and there really is no agreed narrative for what exactly happened.

When the case was running, I regularly made the point that there were just too many coincidences and unlikely occurences for this to be an accident. These have only increased since the post-trial information has been released. However, the nature of coincidences means that some of these are probably actual coincidences.

Take the issue like Simon's poisonings. Circumstantially, they are very strong but I don't think they've been 100% proven and if somebody was to argue against it I don't their position should be ridiculed as if it has been proven. I was actually quite shocked to read in the pre-trial hearings that the defence had a doctor arguing that his symptoms were not in-line with somebody having ingested something.

This in itself isn't proof the other way (there was clearly an argument to be had), but we should be careful IMO presuming we know exactly what happened at each step of the way.

The reason why those charges are less provable are two-fold: she kept switching poisons each time- it's been hypothesized that she tried Nightshade, rat poison, and one other poison that I can't think of at the moment, and 2) it's been too long to test Simon for those poisons or the food. So we'll never really know exactly what she did to him unless she confesses to it.

 

[LinasK]

From her kid's perspective, I think they are better off not having anything to do with her.

At minimum, she's robbed them of their grandparents and aunt, and eroded their trust in food safety.

 

[packetgravy]

One of the things that Narcs habitually do is speak word salad and tie up conversations in knots, create double binds and gaslight. For this reason people around them cannot gain agency or clarity and conversation means nothing and goes nowhere
.
Also for this reason, one hopes that EP doesn't have an online device in prison or you can bet your life she'd be here on this forum having wild debates about how a judge and jury misunderstood the situation, analysing semantics, and trying to suss out what angle to go for Appeal.

JMO MOO

You do have the freedom to address me directly, instead you’ve formed an emotional narrative and personal bias. This is your right and I have no interest in convincing you otherwise.

I have not disputed conviction or any statement made by the judge, this is baseline for me as I naturally view trials through an impartial lens. On the contrary, I agree with the result, including the decision to drop the other charges.

Theories are not uncommon in a thread such as this, pre or post trial. Ideally there is an understanding that any theories shared post trial are not necessarily indicative of dispute. Should you request a theory, be prepared to be met with ideas that differ from your own.

 

[LinasK]

I am yet to form a solid theory for the events following the lunch. Based on the available evidence and imo:

•Erin had no intention of hiding the leftovers
•Erin did not dispose of the plates
•The leftovers contained two parcels, one parcel did not contain toxins. We will call this “Parcel A”
•Imo the steak was removed from Parcel A and fed to her children
•Imo Parcel A was originally meant for Simon

I am unable to source a toxicology report containing the results for a meat sample from Parcel A. If anyone has this information I would appreciate it.

One hole I’m finding challenging is motive. I’ve played with the idea Simon had perhaps found a new love interest (or Erin at least believed he had) but surely this would have been confirmed or denied at this stage.





Catch me out for what?

I can see how it would appear I am picking holes. Occasionally speculation doesn’t track when I examine the evidence/the legal documents and I mostly reference these.

No, the "leftovers" was a lie. Clearly if there were 11/2 portions in the trash, there wasn't even enough leftover to have fed her children, or there wouldn't be 11/2 portions left. She DID not feed them beef that had mushrooms scraped off. She had extra uncooked beef from the 2 max packs (5 pieces each) that she bought. Secondly, if she didn't dispose of the plates, where's the orangy-tan plate that Heather described??? It wasn't the striped one nor the children's scribbled plate that were in the dishwasher. The motive is revenge- against Simon and his family. She made 5 previous attempts that we know of to poison Simon, and had been charged for 3 of them.

 

[LinasK]

It’s a theory, yes.

Possible, that she wanted him to have survivors guilt, but not likely. You really think she fed herself the poisoned portion, but left the non-poisoned portion for him???

 

[LinasK]

Before this can be fully speculated on, I'd like to know more about how good the tests are. The only reason I say this is because we know some of the deceased never tested positive for poisoning and yet we know they were poisoned. Are the samples simply too small to pick it up every time?

If they are more reliable than this and therefore there was a full BW without any poison in it, then it is right to enquire what she was playing at.

I've never fully discounted the idea that she didn't expect they would all get as sick as they did, and she got the dosage wrong. This was always based on the idea that killing 4 people would have always been hard to explain. A more mixed bag, with some dying and some getting ill (into which she fit in with her diahorrea) would have been easier to explain as a tragic accident. Who knows, had Simon attended maybe one other guest would have been given a non-poisoned BW as well.

It's all pure speculation of course, and we'll never fully know what she intended. If however, she did intend to kill 5 people in cold blood, which most people believe, another full BW without any poison is something that would need explaining.

It's her portion (the non-poisoned one)- otherwise if it was truly accidental, all 6 portions would contain poison.

 

[LinasK]

Yes, but an endocrinologist won’t be overseeing a breath test, will they?

If Erin poisoned Simon with different items every time, he would have had variable symptoms, but most ingested poisons will be GI irritants.

I wonder who else’s food Erin was messing with?

Exactly! My daughter has had the H-Pylori test done. It's not an Endocrinologist that does it. It was performed at a hospital, and the results were given to her GI doctor.

 

[Detechtive]

I was referring specifically to the leftovers, as per the question asked of me.

If you have bowel problems sufficient to get 175cm removed, you most certainly will find that on a colonoscopy.

He didn’t have bowel disease. He was poisoned. IMO

 

[Detechtive]

Yes, but an endocrinologist won’t be overseeing a breath test, will they?

If Erin poisoned Simon with different items every time, he would have had variable symptoms, but most ingested poisons will be GI irritants.

I wonder who else’s food Erin was messing with?

Endocrinologist oversees hormones

Imagine if Erin donated cupcakes etc to school? Teachers gifts? Who knows what else she tampered with. It’s a scary thought.

 

[packetgravy]

No, the "leftovers" was a lie. Clearly if there were 11/2 portions in the trash, there wasn't even enough leftover to have fed her children, or there wouldn't be 11/2 portions left. She DID not feed them beef that had mushrooms scraped off. She had extra uncooked beef from the 2 max packs (5 pieces each) that she bought. Secondly, if she didn't dispose of the plates, where's the orangy-tan plate that Heather described??? It wasn't the striped one nor the children's scribbled plate that were in the dishwasher. The motive is revenge- against Simon and his family. She made 5 previous attempts that we know of to poison Simon, and had been charged for 3 of them.

“Parcel A” did not contain death caps and there appeared to be no meat specimen taken from this sample for testing (I have been unable to find a test report suggesting otherwise.)

My theory was based on one of the many possibilities, one being this was the Wellington meant for Simon.

It was Ian who identified an “orangy/tan” plate.

Heather spoke about a “plate with colours on it.”
From the evidence, I was only able to identify two plates that fit that description.

The plate on the right has coloured scribbles on it, which may be the one Erin’s daughter made at kindergarten.

 

[packetgravy]

If you have bowel problems sufficient to get 175cm removed, you most certainly will find that on a colonoscopy.

He didn’t have bowel disease. He was poisoned. IMO

So there was an issue found during the colonoscopy?

 

[LinasK]

“Parcel A” did not contain death caps and there appeared to be no meat specimen taken from this sample for testing (I have been unable to find a test report suggesting otherwise.)

My theory was based on one of the many possibilities, one being this was the Wellington meant for Simon.

It was Ian who identified an “orangy/tan” plate.

Heather spoke about a “plate with colours on it.”
From the evidence, I was only able to identify two plates that fit that description.

The plate on the right has coloured scribbles on it, which may be the one Erin’s daughter made at kindergarten.
View attachment 610025
View attachment 610026

Neither of those is "orangy-tan", and Ian was an actual witness, as he was at the luncheon. I think you have your parcels confused. Erin would not have fed herself the poisoned portion, and IF it had been an accidental poisoning, all 6 portions would have been poisoned.

 

[Detechtive]

There’s evidence Erin didn’t eat DC poison. She had none present in any tests and no symptoms. No liver damage. It’s not a mystery for you to solve @packetgravy - it’s already been established as fact.

 

[Jake18]

There’s evidence Erin didn’t eat DC poison. She had none present in any tests and no symptoms. No liver damage. It’s not a mystery for you to solve @packetgravy - it’s already been established as fact.

I went down a rabbit hole of scientific papers at the beginning of this case. While it’s true that people can be variably affected after ingestion and there’s different levels of severity, I couldn’t find a case report or case series where a survivor DIDN’T have evidence of liver function test derangement.

Erin’s liver function were normal .

The defence also used her weight as a possible mitigating factor, but fat isn’t going to appreciably change her gut absorption or enterohepatic recycling.

 

[packetgravy]

There’s evidence Erin didn’t eat DC poison. She had none present in any tests and no symptoms. No liver damage. It’s not a mystery for you to solve @packetgravy - it’s already been established as fact.

I have no intention of “solving” a case that has been through a trial by jury. Sounds exhausting.

I am flogging a dead horse at this stage, a theory was requested of me and I obliged.

 

[Detechtive]

IF *only* @Monstradamus - IF *only*!

The *one* thing I'm grateful for that little-ms-tight-a never lifted a finger earning - of her 'privileged' wealth, (as it's been portrayed) - is we've got the Mandy TikTok, created by a Genius, it's beyond horrific the rc of how & why it exists.
MOMO

My very good friend Daniel created the Mandy TikTok, he was friends with Erin for a good while. I’m glad he still has his humour

 

[Detechtive]

I went down a rabbit hole of scientific papers at the beginning of this case. While it’s true that people can be variably affected after ingestion and there’s different levels of severity, I couldn’t find a case report or case series where a survivor DIDN’T have evidence of liver function test derangement.

Erin’s liver function were normal .

The defence also used her weight as a possible mitigating factor, but fat isn’t going to appreciably change her gut absorption or enterohepatic recycling.

Yes exactly, not even slightly raised liver enzymes in blood tests.

To theorise that Erin was poisoned at this point is nonsensical and illogical. IMO