GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #19

[JBowie]

Thanks @ch_13
So the charges for Simon's poisoning/attempted murder can be heard at a later date, if required?

Only if the charges were dropped without prejudice. AFAIK, we have not been told if they were dropped with or without prejeduce.

 

[Detechtive]

Dbm

 

[JBowie]

Now that EP is convicted for these poisonings, it could be maybe legally considered if SP has a case with enough evidence to support that EP attempted to murder him on several occasions.

If that were so, the case would need to include EP's conviction as a part of the pattern of offending -AND- have good enough evidence that SP's medical problems were caused by some form of poisoning, have no other explanation, that he did not poison himself, plus try to build a case that all the instances were when he had eaten food provided by EP, with some proof of dates, locations, and relation to medical incidents all coming together.

If the courts would allow EP's conviction as part of the circumstantial evidence for a new separate case and SP can build a good enough scaffold using medical records, professional opinions, any remaining biological samples, other witnesses, diaries, dates, times, specifics... I don't see why he wouldn't have a chance at winning a case. If legal experts say this cannot be done, I'd believe them.

JMO MOO

Regardless, her convictions cannot be raised in a trial. They can only be considered in the sentencing phase if found guilty (again).

That said, she is now so globally infamous as the Mushroom Murderer * that only a modern Rip Van Winkle would be unaware of her criminal convictions.

(* She could claim that she's never actually murdered a mushroom.)

 

[Detechtive]

Only if the charges were dropped without prejudice. AFAIK, we have not been told if they were dropped with or without prejeduce.

AFAIK they were dropped without prejudice, but this could be wrong - I was told by someone who was involved in the court process but I’ve seen nothing of this on the record.

Regardless, I doubt it would be worth rolling those dice considering she will go away for life most likely. IMO

 

[Jake18]

Yes. I believe she could be charged if further evidence is discovered e.g. Phone A is found

MOO

As per the ABC mushroom podcast I don’t think she be charged for the Simon charges, as the outcome of the mushroom charges AND the reporting of them could influence potential jurors. This is not because there wasn’t sufficient evidence to take to trial though.

The sequence of events was : prosecution sought to have the Simon charges and the mushroom charges together, arguing that the former supported the latter as “coincidence” evidence.

Justice Beale said no, as Simon charges could prejudice mushroom charges. The prosecution went to the high court, and lost.

There was consideration of having back to back trials but with a full media black out on the details of the first one, so that the information disclosed at the first didn’t influence the second. Logistically tricky but it was also seen with the Cardinal Pell trial.

Ultimately the Simon charges were dropped by the prosecution, allowing coverage of the mushroom case. Everyone now knows what Erin did and who she is (a murderer by poison). Her defence could easily argue that she would be unlikely to ever get a fair trial for the Simon charges, therefore it won’t happen.

Which isn’t fair to Simon, but, conversely, Erin probably would like the attention of another trial and at least she won’t have the distraction of further outings to court.

 

[JBowie]

AFAIK they were dropped without prejudice, but this could be wrong - I was told by someone who was involved in the court process but I’ve seen nothing of this on the record.

It would be good to know for sure. I don't know why that should be hard to discover -- IMO it ought to be a matter of public interest.

 

[Detechtive]

It would be good to know for sure. I don't know why that should be hard to discover -- IMO it ought to be a matter of public interest.

I agree! I was told by someone in the prosecution so I am fairly certain it’s correct but I’m not confident enough to say so boldly without evidence. I’m sure it will come out soon, it should. IMO

 

[Detechtive]

Regardless, her convictions cannot be raised in a trial. They can only be considered in the sentencing phase if found guilty (again).

That said, she is now so globally infamous as the Mushroom Murderer * that only a modern Rip Van Winkle would be unaware of her criminal convictions.

(* She could claim that she's never actually murdered a mushroom.)

It was obvious from the outset that they would not be allowed in due to tendency and prejudice. I’m surprised the prosecution took it to the high court given how unusual it would be for this to get through.
The right decision for justice and a fair trial was made, IMO

Simple deduction shows us that the OPP would not have been able to substantiate these charges in the first place without some quite compelling evidence. IMO

 

[JBowie]

It was obvious from the outset that they would not be allowed in due to tendency and prejudice. I’m surprised the prosecution took it to the high court given how unusual it would be for this to get through.
The right decision for justice and a fair trial was made, IMO

Simple deduction shows us that the OPP would not have been able to substantiate these charges in the first place without some quite compelling evidence. IMO

I see the cases as being entirely different and I was surprised that they took it to the Court of Appeal.

While it may seem that SP didn't receive direct justice, I think his case being separated/dropped gave the best chance of justice being served post mortem to his parents.

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t know what Erin’s intentions were and I probably won’t understand, but among other things, she has effectively disinherited her children.

 

[Marg944]

IIRC, police considered the possibility of SP having been poisoned by hemlock. Something must have triggered that consideration.

Yes, Police did look into Hemlock being the poison in the early days….. when they were trying to find the poison that Erin Patterson used.


“Scientific and academic articles with a very specific focus on poisonous substances were also found on her devices, including Red Kidney Bean Poisoning in the UK and One Step Purification and Characterisation of Abrin Toxin from Abrus Precatorius Seeds.

Both of these poisons can be derived from plants that are found widely in Australia.

But they weren’t the only potentially lethal suspects investigated by police, who cast a wide net looking for possible explanations for what might have caused Simon’s suite of similar but distinct illnesses.

During the homicide probe, toxicology expert Dr Dimitri Gerostamoulos was brought in to consult on obscure poisons made famous from history and the War on Terror that Erin might have used on Simon’s food.

“I was asked to prepare those [by investigators],” Gerostamoulous testified during pre-trial witness examinations in October 2024.

The first was on hemlock, which history buffs will recognise as the poison made famous by Athenian philosopher Socrates to take his own life in Ancient Greece.

Hemlock, indigenous to Europe and Africa, is a highly poisonous flowering plant that has spread to Australia and become prevalent enough in “disturbed soil areas” like roadsides to be classified as a noxious weed.

The second, ricin, is a poison distilled from castor beans that became a subject of public fear in the Cold War for its use to assassinate spies. It was also used as bioweapon in the War on Terror after the 9/11 attacks. In April 2013, ricin was mailed to US President Barack Obama and a senator, shutting down the postal service in the US.

Simon’s close mate, Bible study partner and GP Christopher Ford also weighed in with a suggestion that was raised during pre-trial hearings – that Erin could have slipped anti-freeze into a batch of cookies made for Simon by their daughter.

Ford told the court Simon had been apprehensive about eating the batch after Erin called several times to ask whether he had eaten any yet. He said the father of two eventually had a small nibble before throwing the rest out.

None of these would pan out.

But Victoria Police would continue to search for other possibilities, even up to the eve of her trial.

Even as late as early April 2025 – just weeks before her triple-murder trial was set to begin in Morwell – the prosecution toyed with introducing newly discovered forensic evidence relating to digital traces found on Erin’s computers that linked to barium carbonate, also known as rat poison.”

Erin Patterson and the art and science of poison

The world knows about the mushroom killer’s weapon of choice, but what has been a secret until now is that it wasn’t the only option she considered.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Deleted member 363451]

What this is saying is that the pre-lunch alleged poisonings of Simon cannot be used as coincidence evidence to prove the lunch poisonings of the others. Had the prosecution not wanted to use it as coincidence evidence, what then?

Consider what they might have said if Simon had toxicology results proving he had ingested poisons. I still think they would have said it was prejudicial in determining her intent as regards the others. More so in fact.

But what if the prosecution had not wanted to use the evidence of any one single incident as coincidence evidence to prove the other charges? It doesn't make sense in their ruling that effectively Simon can never attempt to get justice for alleged crimes against him. If he had a trial now the same facts of the, now proven, lunch poisonings would still be highly prejudicial, as coincidence evidence. Juries have to be trusted to be able to consider multiple alleged crimes on their own merits. I think the court of appeal ruling was, to use their own description, fallacious.

There was more than just several indetermined bouts of critical illness after eating Erin's food to consider. There was -

1/ The ruling out of other usual causes (gastro) and the damage it did to his organs and the fact it was life-threatening and he was usually healthy, not a vulnerable, elderly or immune-compromised person.
2/ The fact that it never happened to Simon in 50-odd years of his whole life when he ate apart from Erin.
3/ The fact they were separated and these were attempts at holidaying together, on their first nights, when she really didn't want to reconcile because she booted him out shortly afterwards and was messaging people about hating him.
4/ His food was kept separate and distinguishable from hers, plus the children were kept separate.
5/ She had searches on her devices for poisons.
6/ He had spoken to his doctor and his parents about his suspicions of her poisoning him before the fatal lunch.
7/ He had prepared a spreadsheet for his doctor and changed his medical power of attorney (if that's the right
terminology).
8/ He avoided eating her food after that and declined the invitation to the lunch even when he considered she could be terminally ill, because he was no longer prepared to take that risk.
9/ Erin never got sick.
10/ Erin apparently didn't want to co-parent, and she didn't want to divorce either.

IMO

Also, he stopped getting sick after he stopped eating food that EP had given him...

 

[Deleted member 363451]

IIRC, police considered the possibility of SP having been poisoned by hemlock. Something must have triggered that consideration.

I saw somewhere that she had definitely done a search on a poisonous plant.

 

[Monstradamus]

Oh, the anticipation

 

[MrJ]

Just some general thoughts imo

I would think it's pretty difficult for anyone to try and rationalise EP's actions because fundamentally her thinking is outside the plane of normality. There's the standard deviation of thoughts, emotions and feelings and regulation of the same, and then there's EP, polar opposites. As for Simon, I would find it hard to be in his shoes as I haven't experienced that sort of personality. It's not as simple as him warning his family not to go, I don't think he thought she would target his family. And also, who knows what it was like dealing with EP, it was probably hell for him. Sure you might say some of his actions don't make sense, but when you've been victimised repeatedly like it seems he was, you probably won't act in a way that people understand because how do you possibly explain what it's like to someone who has no idea of that type of toxic relationship? I really feel for Simon, the guilt would be enormous. I hope he knows none of this was his fault, and same goes for the children too.

 

[Kemug]

This is where I feel sorry for Simon.
He deserves his day in court but, once the Simon charges were severed from the mushroom charges it made sense for the latter to be heard first, as they were stronger IMO, with toxicology evidence.

RSBM
Yes, Simon does deserve his "day in court". But does he want it? He must be so distressed at the moment. And probably exhausted. Maybe he feels he just can't take any more, at least at the moment.

 

[Charlot123]

Yes, Police did look into Hemlock being the poison in the early days….. when they were trying to find the poison that Erin Patterson used.


“Scientific and academic articles with a very specific focus on poisonous substances were also found on her devices, including Red Kidney Bean Poisoning in the UK and One Step Purification and Characterisation of Abrin Toxin from Abrus Precatorius Seeds.

Both of these poisons can be derived from plants that are found widely in Australia.

But they weren’t the only potentially lethal suspects investigated by police, who cast a wide net looking for possible explanations for what might have caused Simon’s suite of similar but distinct illnesses.

During the homicide probe, toxicology expert Dr Dimitri Gerostamoulos was brought in to consult on obscure poisons made famous from history and the War on Terror that Erin might have used on Simon’s food.

“I was asked to prepare those [by investigators],” Gerostamoulous testified during pre-trial witness examinations in October 2024.

The first was on hemlock, which history buffs will recognise as the poison made famous by Athenian philosopher Socrates to take his own life in Ancient Greece.

Hemlock, indigenous to Europe and Africa, is a highly poisonous flowering plant that has spread to Australia and become prevalent enough in “disturbed soil areas” like roadsides to be classified as a noxious weed.

The second, ricin, is a poison distilled from castor beans that became a subject of public fear in the Cold War for its use to assassinate spies. It was also used as bioweapon in the War on Terror after the 9/11 attacks. In April 2013, ricin was mailed to US President Barack Obama and a senator, shutting down the postal service in the US.

Simon’s close mate, Bible study partner and GP Christopher Ford also weighed in with a suggestion that was raised during pre-trial hearings – that Erin could have slipped anti-freeze into a batch of cookies made for Simon by their daughter.

Ford told the court Simon had been apprehensive about eating the batch after Erin called several times to ask whether he had eaten any yet. He said the father of two eventually had a small nibble before throwing the rest out.

None of these would pan out.

But Victoria Police would continue to search for other possibilities, even up to the eve of her trial.

Even as late as early April 2025 – just weeks before her triple-murder trial was set to begin in Morwell – the prosecution toyed with introducing newly discovered forensic evidence relating to digital traces found on Erin’s computers that linked to barium carbonate, also known as rat poison.”

Erin Patterson and the art and science of poison

The world knows about the mushroom killer’s weapon of choice, but what has been a secret until now is that it wasn’t the only option she considered.

www.theage.com.au

Ricin is considered very toxic although castor beans were used as a laxative.

Bulgarian dissident Georgy Markov was allegedly killed by it

Georgi Markov - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Hemlock is toxic. I read about it today - it smells like mouse urine so bolognese and curry may not be enough to mask it. But Simon’s symptoms are similar.

What about hellebore? It grows in the gardens but if eaten, can be toxic. “burning of the mouth and throat, salivation, vomiting, abdominal cramping, diarrhea, nervous symptoms, and possibly depression. Consuming large quantities of hellebore plants can be fatal”.

One wonders if Simon liked spicy food like bolognese or curry? If not too much, maybe she used spicy food because the poison had taste or smell?

 

[Jake18]

RSBM
Yes, Simon does deserve his "day in court". But does he want it? He must be so distressed at the moment. And probably exhausted. Maybe he feels he just can't take any more, at least at the moment.

After the Simon charges were dropped he asked the Judge for the full court transcripts, in order to make sense of things. I don’t know if he was allowed them? He certainly has a lot of processing to do.

 

[Detechtive]

After the Simon charges were dropped he asked the Judge for the full court transcripts, in order to make sense of things. I don’t know if he was allowed them? He certainly has a lot of processing to do.

And also to write his book, IMO. Those transcripts would cost $15k+++

 

[Detechtive]

Just some general thoughts imo

I would think it's pretty difficult for anyone to try and rationalise EP's actions because fundamentally her thinking is outside the plane of normality. There's the standard deviation of thoughts, emotions and feelings and regulation of the same, and then there's EP, polar opposites. As for Simon, I would find it hard to be in his shoes as I haven't experienced that sort of personality. It's not as simple as him warning his family not to go, I don't think he thought she would target his family. And also, who knows what it was like dealing with EP, it was probably hell for him. Sure you might say some of his actions don't make sense, but when you've been victimised repeatedly like it seems he was, you probably won't act in a way that people understand because how do you possibly explain what it's like to someone who has no idea of that type of toxic relationship? I really feel for Simon, the guilt would be enormous. I hope he knows none of this was his fault, and same goes for the children too.

She is extraordinarily manipulative and cunning. She managed to convince an entire group of (semi) educated women of her complete, utter, lies very quickly. I mean, completely made up character assassinations of people - based on zero evidence.
I was stunned that she was so successful at this at the time, I have never seen anything like it before.
In hindsight, I can see that she preyed upon weak women who are the type to be disciples, but at the time, I was shocked at her swift ability to be able to manipulate complete narratives in the face of opposing evidence.
The gaslighting, the stalking, the incessant bombardment of 'fake identities' she had created to solidify her position was astounding and off the charts psychotic. She had spent months/years on this task and it was relentless.

I really feel for Simon. He hasn't been able to cleanly separate from her because she holds the most precious "tool" (in her mind) to manipulate him with - his children. I can't even imagine how confusing this would have been for him.

IMO